Another Georgia/Russia thread

SenorSanteria

Well-Known Member
It seems like everyone is pissed about America sticking their noses into other people's business. Is it just me, or is our ally the one who is in the wrong here? South Ossetia has been a soverign nation since 1992... thats 16 years! What makes Georgia think they have the right to reclaim it now? And the fact that we are on Georgia's side simply because they supported us in Iraq is rediculous. Isnt it plain to see that the Georgians are the aggressors? In my eyes, the Georgians are no better than Iraq when they tried to take Kuwait. Why do we support this?!
 

bobharvey

Well-Known Member
Apparently I am watching all the wrong channels. I have no idea what is going on with that whole conflict. I am not well versed in politics here in America and especially not in that part of the world. I haven't had the internet to look up unbiased news sources and I'm just now learning that maybe Russia was protecting people. I am completely confused.

I'm done with MSM forever, well except for ESPN and ESPN2
 
S

Sherry

Guest
I am very confused with the media coverage of this conflict. For years, South Ossetia for some reason has been 'included" as a part of Georgia - South Ossetia has tried free and fair elections only to have them voided by Georgia; Georgia has been working on legally forcing South Ossetians to only speak the majority language of Georgia, has tried to intimidate South Ossetia into giving up their culture and replacing it with Georgia's culture. That's just the tip of this iceberg.

These "conflicts" have been ongoing for the last (approx.) 100 years.

This is what I posted on the other Georgia v Ossetia board:

"Having said that, Georgia is no saint either; there is much history behind Georgia/Russia/S. Ossetia/N Ossetia, not to mention US involvement in this region, and why everyone wants control of South Ossetia; major transport routes, gas & oil pipelines, etc..

The Ossetians are spread across several countries including Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey and others. The home base is Ossetia itself which is also divided between countries; the north in Russia and the south in Georgia. The goal of the South Ossetian separatists is to either gain its independence or unite with North Ossetia, which lies in Russia.

Ethnically, the Ossetians are of Iranian stock and speak their own language, which is closely related to Pashto, and more distantly to Farsi.

They claim to be the descendents of the ancient Alanian and Scythian tribes and therefore to have been inhabiting the South Caucasus for thousands of years.

The Georgians, on the other hand, are a Caucasian people and speak a language belonging to the Caucasian family. The Georgians also claim to have ancient roots in the South Caucasus, while at the same time arguing that the Ossetians only migrated to the Caucasus between the 17th and 19th centuries.

Along religious lines, both are predominately Orthodox Christian, with a Sunni Islam minority among the Ossetians.

Therefore, the conflict between the two peoples is not based on religion, but rather on ethnicity, and territory.

This is not the first conflict between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia - it's been a hot zone since the turn of the the 20th century."


sherry

It seems like everyone is pissed about America sticking their noses into other people's business. Is it just me, or is our ally the one who is in the wrong here? South Ossetia has been a soverign nation since 1992... thats 16 years! What makes Georgia think they have the right to reclaim it now? And the fact that we are on Georgia's side simply because they supported us in Iraq is rediculous. Isnt it plain to see that the Georgians are the aggressors? In my eyes, the Georgians are no better than Iraq when they tried to take Kuwait. Why do we support this?!
 

ccodiane

New Member
This is not the first conflict between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia - it's been a hot zone since the turn of the the 20th century."


Since the commies came rolling into town?
 
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Sherry

Guest
Actually during Soviet rule in the 1920's - there was Peace.

The South Ossetians of Georgia have been in conflict with the Georgian government since just before the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the early 1990’s. Between 1918 and 1920, the first overtures to South Ossetian independence were made during a series of Ossetian rebellions against the first Georgian Republic. Once Georgia came under Soviet rule in 1923, and for the remainder of Soviet rule, there was peace between the two groups. Major violent conflict erupted again, however, between Ossetian separatist guerillas and Georgian troops in the early 1990’s, and then once more in 2004. The basic domestic and international issues surrounding the conflict are the South Ossetians' claims of unequal treatment under Georgian rule and subsequent demands for cultural, social, economic and political protections as a minority group, Russia’s desire to punish Georgia for its increasingly pro-Western political orientation, and outside concerns about the stability and accessibility of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline running partly through Georgia. However, at the conflict’s most basic level, it is a conflict over land and territory. Georgia wants to maintain its territorial integrity and thus prevent the region of South Ossetia from seceding, while South Ossetia wants to either establish independence or join with North Ossetia and come under Russian rule.

Georgia and South Ossetia

sherry

This is not the first conflict between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia - it's been a hot zone since the turn of the the 20th century."


Since the commies came rolling into town?
 

ccodiane

New Member
Actually during Soviet rule in the 1920's - there was Peace.

Before the commies brutally took power in the Balkan states/Eastern Europe, was there peace?
 
S

Sherry

Guest
This "conflict' reminds me of that movie "Wag The Dog".

This topic is on Georgia and South Ossetia, not the whole of Eastern Europe. I am not condoning Russia's part in this conflict; Georgia has a lot to lose if South Ossetia ever gains their independence. Just look at the map of that area - look where the gas and oil piplelines are, and 2 of the major 4 transport routes.

Georgia wants those resources badly - they always have. They have instigated many "conflicts" in the past - some of those conficts they claimed the "South Ossetians started it" when facts clearly proved that Georgia fired the first shot. It's happening all over again.

I am an American, I served this country for 20 years in the US NAVY; I am not condoning communism.

Just because the United States has been supplying Georgia for years and years with money, ammunition and many other perks does not mean that the USA made the right choice. There is OIL in South Ossetia.

This conflict may eventually require US Troops to help Poor Poor Georgia.

When the American people find out they've been duped into war again by the first President Bush - I don't want to be around for THAT.

Read the history of the region - not all of Eastern Europe - just this region. There is a clear history of genocide (ethnic cleansing) perpetrated by the Georgians - not Russians - in this region.

You know what I find interesting in a sickening way? The MEDIA include South Ossetia when talking about GEORGIA.

The Media make this conflict look as if it's Georgia vs. Russia when it is not.

This conflict is about Georgia vs South Ossetia - Russia is South Ossetia's ALLY - Russia is protecting South Ossetia from the Georgian troops

sherry

Before the commies brutally took power in the Balkan states/Eastern Europe, was there peace?
 

SenorSanteria

Well-Known Member
So my initial feeling was correct- the united states is completely in the wrong here. We're supporting "the bad guys" so to speak.

Fuck Bush man, this is crap. Ron Paul anyone?
 
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Sherry

Guest
The truth is out there........dooo dooo do do do dooo doooo doooo dooooo do do do do..........

https://www.rollitup.org/politics/99009-bush-georgian-aid-yes-22.html

:blsmoke:
Well it's really swell to see Junior wasting my taxpaying dollars - just like his daddy did.

It's okay that you don't understand that the historical references exist therefore they are - and, if this information (which is from reputable media and history books) seems like "X-Files" to you, well then I can do without your sarcastic wit on such a lovely day.

sherry
 

ccodiane

New Member
Reputable? :mrgreen::mrgreen:

From your "reputable" source. Why don't they list Russias environmental transgressions. Or are you simply attempting digression?

6. Type of Environmental Problem

 
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Sherry

Guest
Well, if Georgia insists on denying independence (or seccession) of South Ossetia from Georgia, and Georgia insists on human rights abuses, you think the least the Georgia government could have done (they had the time) was to conduct a massive environmental CLEAN-UP of South Ossetia:

Now, this is an excerpt from the same source of that graphic of Georgia in your post:

..." For example, a 2004 report by the United Nations Environment Programme says, “Environmental degradation and the use of natural resources are identified as factors that could deepen contention in areas of existing conflicts as in Abkhazia, South Ossetia…”.(12) Acquiring accurate data about the environmental situation in South Ossetia is very difficult, which is a problem in of itself, however problems such as the exploitation of natural resources and soil contamination are known to exist in South Ossetia. Unfortunately, many environmental challenges were also inherited by Georgia after the collapse of the Soviet Union, such as hazardous waste dumps, aging nuclear sites, etc. For example, there is an old Soviet “industrial complex” in northwest South Ossetia that is categorized as “still generating pollution” and a nuclear waste site in the south part of the territory, also leftover from the days of Soviet rule. Again, with the territory in conflict, these environmental hazards are not being properly secured, monitored, or cleaned up. This is obviously a major risk to the local population as water supplies and arable land can be severely damaged by pollution from these sites. A decrease in access to clean water and arable land could only worsen the conflict, as a fight for control of these resources could inflame the fighting...."

The only thing South Ossetia & Abkhazia want is their independence:

Russia’s Upper House of Parliament ‘Ready’ to Recognize S. Ossetia, Abkhazia

Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 20 Aug.'08 / 12:08

“The Council of Federation is ready to recognize an independent status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, if the peoples of the two republics want it and if there is a relevant decision of the President of Russia,” Interfax news agency reported quoting Sergey Mironov, chairman of the Council of Federation, the Russia’s upper house of the Parliament, as saying on August 20.
The Russian senator made the remarks in North Ossetia, where he arrived to deliver the humanitarian aid sent by the Council of Federation to the refugees from South Ossetia.

Meanwhile, the Parliament of breakaway Abkhazia plans to convene a special session on August 20 to discuss an appeal to the President and Parliament of Russia asking for recognition.
“We will request to recognize the independence of our republic,” Abkhaz parliament speaker Nugzar Ashuba told Interfax news agency.

The breakaway region’s Parliament made several similar appeals to Russia in previous years.

Civil.Ge | Russia’s Upper House of Parliament ‘Ready’ to Recognize S. Ossetia, Abkhazia

sherry


Reputable? :mrgreen::mrgreen:

From your "reputable" source. Why don't they list Russias environmental transgressions. Or are you simply attempting digression?

6. Type of Environmental Problem

 
S

Sherry

Guest
Are you for real :?: :?: Did you even read the post that referenced this

[SIZE=+2]ICE Case Studies[/SIZE]​

Number 180, May 2006​
[SIZE=+1]South Ossetian Separatism in Georgia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]by Rebecca Ratliff[/SIZE]


Do you even know what ICE Case Studies are? Do you know what the UNEP is?

Here's the credible source for the graphic and text in that section:

12. UNEP, "Environment and Security-Transforming Risks into Cooperation the Case of the Southern Caucasus", 2004

http://www.envsec.org/southcauc/pub/envsec_transforming_risk_enb.pdf

Maybe you cannot handle credibile, reputable Verified Information well?
What more could you possibly require to make an educated, informed , rational opinion?

Maybe it's a little over your ...............................:joint:

Or maybe - you really don't give a damn about the TRUTH because you are happy in your little bubble-world and you don't want anything (like messy reality) to burst it.

At least I've given accurate verified information for the other posters here. I won't respond to anymore of your idiotic mumblings in any Politics forum at RIU because you don't seem have the ability to recognize facts and truth - why would you be any different on any other thread? :rolleyes:

sherry


Reputable? :eyesmoke:
 

ccodiane

New Member
Do you even know what ICE Case Studies are? Do you know what the UNEP is?

Ahhhhh, a bunch of American funded propaganda?

From ICE-

[SIZE=-1]
Key Links
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change IPCC <http://www.ipcc.ch>

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has been established by WMO and UNEP to assess scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant for the understanding of climate change, its potential impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. It is currently finalizing its Fourth Assessment Report "Climate Change 2007". The reports by the three Working Groups provide a comprehensive and up-to-date assessment of the current state of knowledge on climate change.

Scientific Expert Group SEG
The Scientific Expert Group on Climate Change and Sustainable Development (SEG) was formed and is comprised of 18 distinguished international scientists. The panel was asked to consider innovative approaches for mitigating and/or adapting to projected climate changes, and to anticipate the relationship of response measures to sustainable development.
UN Foundation: Confronting Climate Change
"Impacts of Climate Change: A System Vulnerability Approach to Consider the Potential Impacts to 2050 of a Mid-Upper Greenhouse Gas Emission Scenario", Global Business Network GBN
http://www.gbn.com/climatechange/ImpactsOfClimateChange.pdf
Elizabeth Chalecki, "Environmental Security: A Case Study of Climate Change", Pacific Institute for Studies in Development, Environment and Security Case Study
http://www.pacinst.org/reports/environment_and_security/env_security_and_climate_change.pdf

Peter H. Gleick, "Dirty Water: "Estimated Deaths from Water-Related Diseases 2000-2020", Pacific Institute Research Report, August 15, 2002 Dirty Water
http://www.pacinst.org/reports/water_related_deaths/water_related_deaths_report.doc
Tom Athanasiou, "The Inconvenient Truth, Part II", Foreign Policy in Focus Truth
Foreign Policy In Focus | The Inconvenient Truth, Part II
Climate Change and the North-South Gap

Pat Mooney, "Global Warming: The Quick Fix Is In", Foreign Policy in Focus Quick Fix
Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Warming: The Quick Fix Is In
Geo-Engineering to combat climate change

Stern Review on the Economics of Climate Change, UK HM Treasury Stern Review
Stern Review Index page
[/SIZE]
 
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