Reverse osmosis and calmag

[churchhaze]

The only form of calcium suitable for hydroponics is calcium nitrate, which is why cal-mag+ adds N. It really amuses me when consumers continue on their never ending search for a product that's suitable for growing that contains soluble calcium but does not contain N... It's a misguided effort.

Just get a few pounds of calcium nitrate already! It has N.. (it's actually the main supply of N in all hydroponic formulas.)

 

[churchhaze]

The idea that you'd need to replace something that came out of your water implies that water is supposed to have things in it to start with.

0ppm water is nothings mysterious... It's just a clean slate.. Add nutrients to it and please stop this never ending discussion about somehow replenishing water of its wateriness...

 

[IndoorSolar]

PLEASE stop using the term "Cal mag" as if it's an actual thing. Cal-mag is a PRODUCT marketed toward gullible people. (all "cal-mag" products)

Calcium? That's an element.. Magnesium? That's an element. Calmag is not a thing. Your water does not need "calmag", it needs nutrients like calcium and magnesium.

Yes i know that calcium and magnesium are 2 differene elements, pretty basic science there. I personally say calmag because it is easier since we all use a calmag product in our grows using ro or low tds water and calmag us faster to type then calcium and magnesium is. Yes calmag is a thing i have a bottle of it so that makes it a phyical thing but i get what you are saying here, its a forum and everyone will use the general terminology for the subject matter.

 

[az2000]

I personally say calmag because it is easier since we all use a calmag product in our grows

Are you in hydro? I don't use calmag. (Not "all of us" use it. ) But, I'm in soil. As mentioned in the post before yours, I mix tap and RO to get a reasonable 150'ish ppm to start.

I don't like calmag products because I don't need the nitrogen. I use epsom salt and either gypsum or dissolved eggshell (calcium acetate) for calcium. I only need it for deficiencies since my 150 water is good enough. (I also like how I don't acidify my nutrients more than they need to be). I have a spreadsheet that helps figure out how much of those things to use. I like having tools, flexibility like that.

 

[churchhaze]

Yes i know that calcium and magnesium are 2 differene elements, pretty basic science there. I personally say calmag because it is easier since we all use a calmag product in our grows using ro or low tds water and calmag us faster to type then calcium and magnesium is. Yes calmag is a thing i have a bottle of it so that makes it a phyical thing but i get what you are saying here, its a forum and everyone will use the general terminology for the subject matter.

Not everyone uses a "calmag" product... Many of us see it as as ripoff and/or unnecessary. Insisting on calling it calmag just makes me think there are a lot of shills on RIU trying to sell their expensive bottles of watered down salt.

First of all, Cal-mag+ overlaps with GH flora micro. It's not necessary to add both. They both contain calcium nitrate as the main ingredient and they both provide iron. The magnesium comes from the GH micro bloom and grow bottles. Nobody actually needs this overlapping product. People have practically been so brainwashed into thinking they must have it if they use RO water.. It's simply not true.

Second, calcium nitrate can be purchased for 1-2 dollars a pound in small amounts which can easily be made into a stock solution. Why would anyone in their right mind turn to expensive and diluted cal-mag products when they could just use straight up calcium nitrate and not bullshit with all the brands like "calmag".

Edit: For soil and lime fortified potting mixes, you shouldn't use calcium nitrate. The insoluble calcium will be taken up as nitrifying bacteria make nitrates

 

[DSinatra]

PLEASE stop using the term "Cal mag" as if it's an actual thing. Cal-mag is a PRODUCT marketed toward gullible people. (all "cal-mag" products)

Calcium? That's an element.. Magnesium? That's an element. Calmag is not a thing. Your water does not need "calmag", it needs nutrients like calcium and magnesium.

This guy

 

[DSinatra]

Are you in hydro? I don't use calmag. (Not "all of us" use it. ) But, I'm in soil. As mentioned in the post before yours, I mix tap and RO to get a reasonable 150'ish ppm to start.

I don't like calmag products because I don't need the nitrogen. I use epsom salt and either gypsum or dissolved eggshell (calcium acetate) for calcium. I only need it for deficiencies since my 150 water is good enough. (I also like how I don't acidify my nutrients more than they need to be). I have a spreadsheet that helps figure out how much of those things to use. I like having tools, flexibility like that.

Soil

 

[churchhaze]

This guy

Your welcome. Hopefully you and other members will stop using stupid terms like"calmag".

 

[IndoorSolar]

Are you in hydro? I don't use calmag. (Not "all of us" use it. ) But, I'm in soil. As mentioned in the post before yours, I mix tap and RO to get a reasonable 150'ish ppm to start.

I don't like calmag products because I don't need the nitrogen. I use epsom salt and either gypsum or dissolved eggshell (calcium acetate) for calcium. I only need it for deficiencies since my 150 water is good enough. (I also like how I don't acidify my nutrients more than they need to be). I have a spreadsheet that helps figure out how much of those things to use. I like having tools, flexibility like that.

I like how you mix tap water in with your ro water to get a 150ppm base. My tap water comes out 450-500ppm the water is very hard where i live and has chloramine and fluoride. What else concerns me is the unknowns in the tap water, i also have a water softener so i dont kniw how that would effect things. To me calmag is a simple convenient way to add back in the last calcium and mag that is removed by the ro membrane, i use GO calmag plus which has molasses in it so it supplies 3 things in one simple dose. Dont take this wrong just explaining why i perfer to use cal mag for now at least, to each their own. I dont agree with nutes companies either, feeding charts are way to high and why the "need" for so many extra bottles veg bloom bug boosters silica micro bug bud 100 different sweets root boosters. Why so many it should be simpler. I am looking into Hydroponics Research veg+bloom all in one it has everything needed to grow a plant from start to finish in one powder, they have ro and tap water formulas. The other nute i am looking at and have free samples of is Uprising line from Roots Organics 3 powder nutes veg bloom and micro needs nothing else. I want to simplify my feeding nutes I hate all the dam bottles, dont want to go with a super soil though. Happy growing.

 

[az2000]

My tap water comes out 450-500ppm the water is very hard where i live and has chloramine and fluoride.

I can't speak to the flouride part. (How many ppm? Maybe someone here could say if it's significant.). The choramine/chlorine part isn't a concern. Water is sanitized for a closed system which isn't expected to present much bacterial load. It will be exhausted as soon as it hits the soil. Or, better yet, add a pinch of sugar to the water the night before. That will stimulate bacterial growth to exhaust the santizer. (Or, spit in your water.). The sugar is good for the microbes (but, don't use much. Just a pinch).

i also have a water softener so i dont kniw how that would effect things.

Badly. It replaces the calmag with sodium, I believe. (But, don't they usually leave the side faucets separate from the softened side of the supply line? It would be a hassle, maybe not worth it, to go outside for some more water'ish water with the calmag left in it .).

Dont take this wrong just explaining why i perfer to use cal mag for now at least, to each their own.

Don't apologize to me. You're the one who will have to answer to God for your evil calmagerie.

I used GO CaMg+ for awhile. I think that's what you're using. I got the impression that's calcium carbonate dissolved in acid (wood acid, if I recall from the label). Does that acidify your nutrient mix?

That's the one reason I disliked calmag. It created a slippery slope of "more this, more that." I was adding nitrogen I didn't want. I had to add more phup, adding more potassium I didn't want (ph up is potassium, they just don't label it that way because they don't sell it as a fertilizer.). Now more salts in the soil, impeding the microbes, acidifying the soil as my runoff ppms rise.

When I turned from those evil ways I found I didn't have to ph my nutrients. It's not full of unwanted salts, so it doesn't weigh as heavily on the soil's ph.

If you didn't want to earn your salvation by schleping water from the outside faucet, what about adding epsom salt and gypsum (or dissolved eggshells, creating calcium acetate)? My spreadsheet will tell you how much of each to get a calmag ratio. I think that would be everything except the nitrates -- which are what acidify the mix (or, with GO, it's the acid to dissolve carbonated forms of ca and mg).

It's your eternal salvation at stake. I would give this careful consideration....

I want to simplify my feeding nutes I hate all the dam bottles, dont want to go with a super soil though.

Jacks Classic is about as simple as you'll get. I use Grow More Sea Grow. I mix 2-3 dry ingredients to get NPK ratios I want (using the spreadsheet above). I like it because it has some organic'ish stuff in it. It affects the taste compared to purely synthetic. It seems like the best of both worlds between synthetic versus full organic (with composting things for months). I try to spice it up with organic things like AK Fish occasionally, AK kelp in bloom as a bulking agent (seems to me that's what it does.).

So, I still have a few products I use. It's not exactly simpler. But, I feel like I'm in control, doing my own thing, fully informed about it (instead of mystery NPK ratios from boutique "lineups."). I get a better feel for how different components work. It's fun.

 

[IndoorSolar]

Yeah it does drop the ph down pretty low and i need to adjust it with ph up. I do have an out side tap that is not hooked to the softener. I may just try out a 80/20 ro to tap water and see what ppm that makes and how my plans and ph react.

 

[az2000]

 

[DSinatra]

Like I said.....calmag lol. Calmag is a supplement. It's a nutrient with calcium and magnesium all in one. So calmag is very real.

 

[outlier]

calimagic calcium source is carbonate so I recommand you follow the dosage and never more. carbonate are insoluble , they are usually used as buffer in RO... this is not really intended to increase available calcium. Too much carbonates will interact with other element and might cause lock out/deficiency

Interesting. This is exactly what I've found in my first coco grow. I started with 3 plants showing calcium deficiencies, 1 plant showing a magnesium deficiency. Using soft water in coco without calmag I assumed I needed it. Fed at the minimum dose (2ml per gal) and it appeared to fix the magnesium problems but the calcium appeared to get worse. So I upped the dose of calmag to the max recommended dose of 4ml per gal. Then all sorts of weird shit started happening. From what I could determine at the time, it was P and K locking out. AND calcium issues were still there. About the only thing "calmag" actually fixed was the magnesium deficiency.

So I ditched calmag like Canna suggested and fed more nutes instead. Sure enough, I had magnesium deficiencies starting again... lol

Long story short, I have to use about 100ppm or 1ml per gal. 1/2 the recommended minimum dose. This has finally sorted all of the problems I was having in coco. And I think you mate just explained why.

Not everyone uses a "calmag" product... Many of us see it as as ripoff and/or unnecessary. Insisting on calling it calmag just makes me think there are a lot of shills on RIU trying to sell their expensive bottles of watered down salt.

First of all, Cal-mag+ overlaps with GH flora micro. It's not necessary to add both. They both contain calcium nitrate as the main ingredient and they both provide iron. The magnesium comes from the GH micro bloom and grow bottles. Nobody actually needs this overlapping product. People have practically been so brainwashed into thinking they must have it if they use RO water.. It's simply not true.

Second, calcium nitrate can be purchased for 1-2 dollars a pound in small amounts which can easily be made into a stock solution. Why would anyone in their right mind turn to expensive and diluted cal-mag products when they could just use straight up calcium nitrate and not bullshit with all the brands like "calmag".

Edit: For soil and lime fortified potting mixes, you shouldn't use calcium nitrate. The insoluble calcium will be taken up as nitrifying bacteria make nitrates

Calmag (the product) appears to be more targeted towards the coco grower. Which makes sense. Coco steals calcium and magnesium. Why not make a product that supplements them both? The issue I see is aligning with what weede says. The calmag company says to load up at 4ml per gal. In reality you only need 1/4 or less of that IF you're growing in coco. Any other medium and I would be looking at and dealing with the problem(s) individually as/if they arise.

 

[IndoorSolar]

Well az2000 you have manager to cut my last thread and converted me to the dark side. I did my first wateri g with 240ppm 50% ro 50% tap that sat open over night. No calmag added ph was 7.0 but i brought it down to 6.5. We will see how they respond.

 

[DesertGrow89]

Thank you sir. Calmag is a must when it comes to cannabis. I want to know opinions of everyone about me using double the calmag in ro

My opinion is that doubling suggested doses of micronutrients, especially on a frequent basis, is generally a badbadnotgood idea. Large amounts of Ca can interfere with the absorption of K and vice versa. Note that a if K is locked out it can't be fixed by adding more K, but reducing your amount of Ca supplementation.

 

[intenseneal]

Hell yeah git back on my old account, thats more like it. Aka indoorsolar, wont be using that account again.

 

[az2000]

Well az2000 you have manager to cut my last thread and converted me to the dark side. I did my first wateri g with 240ppm 50% ro 50% tap that sat open over night. No calmag added ph was 7.0 but i brought it down to 6.5. We will see how they respond.

I know it will go well. We shall go forth and spread the good news. Our message will be simple: "Love knows no calmag."

When you say you say you brought it down to 6.5. Was that what the nutrients brought it down to? Or, was it 7 after the nutrients? (I think that would be unusual, to be that high after nutrients.). I think someone said phdown is more useful as a nutrient than phup. I.e., if you have to use anything, that's desirable.

I would have mixed more RO to get to 150ppm. 240ppm sounds high. Did you feed water only? (Now your ph-down remark makes sense). I would still do 150 in a water-only use. I try not to go over 200 because I think other stuff in tap water isn't good. For example, Ca & Mg is 13% of my tap waters PPMs. When I cut it down to 150ppm, that's only 20ppm of those two (14 ppm Ca, 6 ppm Mg, on average.). The rest is sodium, sulfate and other things (some of which are good, but minuscule).

I.e., just because I feed at 500ppm, I wouldn't dilute my 700 water to 500 just because I'm not adding nutrients. (The water's ppms aren't useful.). So, if you went 240ppm to get more Ca & Mg, you may be getting more than you bargained for which could appear as salt buildup (since the can't use sodium and sulfate, etc.).

Have faith. Let go. Let water have its way...

 

[az2000]

Something else I meant to say. When you're water's PPMs are low, it doesn't take much to move the PH. You probably used very little ph-down, right? The way I looked at that (back when I ph'ed) is that it's pointless to ph low-ppm water because the soil's buffers will be stronger than the water's. It's going to pull the water it's way, not vice-versa. Maybe if you fed 7.0 water for a month the soil might give in. But, if you're doing feed-water-feed, I wouldn't ph the water. The next feeding will pull it down (to whatever extent the un-ph'ed water pulled it up, which shouldn't be much.).

If you're afraid to try too many things, that's cool. But, keep that in mind and try it whenever you get comfortable with how it's going. (But, I would definitely stay closer to 150ppm for your water-only use. I think you're inviting a problem by not doing that. If you get ca/mg def, you can improve that by adding the real deal via gypsum and epsom. But, trying to avoid that with higher PPM water is adding other stuff that can't be as undone as easily (or, recognized as a problem if it contributes to one).

 

[intenseneal]

Yeah it took very little ph down like 3 drops in a gallon. Yeah 240ppm was just ro and tap water no nutes this watering, i feed nutes every other watering. So 200-250ppm is too high iyo? I though you wanted a base water at about that ppm before adding your nutes?