He who controls the seed,will control the weed.

[abalonehx]

I think there's enough seriously addicted seed hoarders just on this board that have caches
of dank genetics, you need not worry about the near future post-legalization dystopia.
They can't stop the underground.

 

[FauxRoux]

I think there's enough seriously addicted seed hoarders just on this board that have caches
of dank genetics, you need not worry about the near future post-legalization dystopia.
They can't stop the underground.

I dont think anyone thinks it will STOP. Most of us just dont think it will be profitable. So depending on your outlook or relationship with the plant this change may not matter to you 1 iota.

 

[kermit2692]

Hahah.....weeeeell.....look...exporting out of CA has been most peoples game since the game started. Nothing new there. people here and everywhere trying to make a living do NOT keep back the best...its first out the door as (especially this time of year) you're competing with every other grower. 10 years ago a lb was 42 in CA and 8k in new york. Folks were muling thier asses off. Nothing comes out of CO cause half of what is there is from CA. trying to keep them supplied is partly why this and last year was the first time in about 6-7 years that growers have been able to haggle and prices came up a bit. And while your right about some of the price fluctuations and the reasons for them at the end of the day the average price being cut in half over the last 5-7 years is cause of the increasingly legal medical status and the clubs ability to grow for their patients, effectively pushing OG growers out of the market. Full legality will not reverse this.

Thankfully this has backfired at the lower end of the market. With lower pay most OG growers sell their shwag to the clubs (who still charge $50-60 a 1/8th despite buying at $2k) and so many people are going back to their street dealer who now sells a typically similar/better product for $25-30 1/8th. I dont know anyone that buys anything but edibles from clubs these days. Granted as you said I AM in CA.

To break this down ill put it like this ...Ive heard the "boutique" argument...and while I can see some room for it and agree that Marijuana as a legal crop is NOT going to go the way of big tobacco, I would say it WILL go the route of micro breweries at best. Now I would say we ALL know someone who's home brewing beer, but if you ask them what it costs to do so they will tell you after overhead and supplies it comes out to very close to the price of good micro brew at the store. Now while I like my friends home brew and much of it is quite good I cant say its better then some of my favorite microbreweries like dogfish, Mendocino brewery, lost cost..etc etc.

Now I agree some home brewers are just as talented as some of these micro breweries....the question is...how many people actually make it to that level? and how many home brewers do YOU know making a living doing it?

Ok I see your points, and it's good to get perspective from other states.. But I'm determined and maybe you're right the profit won't be so easy to come by but I'm still hearing from you that there's a demand to be filled even in co. I think I have the skills to carve myself a spot large enough to live comfortably, I guess only time will tell exactly how cutthroat the industry will get as it legalizes and as more people grow i guess :/ and i want to clarify that again i see some absolute fire come out of ca but it just seems like around harvest every year someone is slinging some mite riddled outdoor along side it so i assumed the nicest stuff was easier to sell for a bit more locally and that battle of quality might be playing into prices to some degree.. Idk I'll give it everything I've got this is my goal, and many others but most of them don't take step one those that do i can out compete i feel.. Oh well i will see how it ends up!

 

[FauxRoux]

Ok I see your points, and it's good to get perspective from other states.. But I'm determined and maybe you're right the profit won't be so easy to come by but I'm still hearing from you that there's a demand to be filled even in co. I think I have the skills to carve myself a spot large enough to live comfortably, I guess only time will tell exactly how cutthroat the industry will get as it legalizes and as more people grow i guess :/ and i want to clarify that again i see some absolute fire come out of ca but it just seems like around harvest every year someone is slinging some mite riddled outdoor along side it so i assumed the nicest stuff was easier to sell for a bit more locally and that battle of quality might be playing into prices to some degree.. Idk I'll give it everything I've got this is my goal, and many others but most of them don't take step one those that do i can out compete i feel.. Oh well i will see how it ends up!

Well Im certainly rooting for ya and best of luck.

 

[since1991]

FauxRoux.....you say it better than i can thats for sure. Its not going to happen overnight. Of course not. Its kinda already happening though. Its just big ag hasnt gotten hold of it.....yet. But its coming. I know of several growers that are seriously scaling down or just the opposite....doubling or tripling the lamps or greenhouse sizes just to rip it big to grab that last chunk of black market cash. We will see what happens i. The next 4 to 8 years how many of us old timey growers are still digging and running. I cant stand the dark evil nature of the drug but the future is opium poppies. Mexican cartels done figured this out. If you got the balls. If you dont mind selling base raw poison basically.....yes the future is opium poppies.

 

[since1991]

Iam just gonna chime in here one more time. And say this as bluntly and grounded in reality as much as i can to wake some of you growers up. Ive been growing marijuana in some fashion in some state since the early nineties. Ive seen it all but nothing like whats been going on since about 2005 with the big push towards full on legalization. Iam already past being scared. Its inevitable. By the end of this next jack ass president (i think whoever gets it will be a full 2 terms) no one on these forums or anyone you know will be growing marijuana inside or out for a living. Not even a supplemented income. There will be no profit there. Take that however you want. Dont let your "passion", your ability, your work ethic with the crop, your "top shelf artisian quality genetics delude your brain from it either. Believe me.....there are a ton (literally hundreds of thousands of growers) that have the same passion, skills, genetics , etc as you do. Lose the ego. I know its hard. Its inherent with the whole nature of what we been doing for 25+ years. And prepare for a reality check.The future belongs to those who prepare for it now.

 

[since1991]

Its almost like the younger or newer growers have just started to get really good at growing. They love it. They got the shit dialed and on point. Its becoming "easy" now. They stuck to it for the last few years and they are growing some seriuos fire. And theres good money rolling in there wallet. I know...its all really nice rite now. Beleive me..been there. Just want to inject a little reality into what it is thats about to happen. Iam with you. I want this little gravy train to keep rolling forever too. But its not. Its going to come to a grinding halt for just about all of us. The big money people are coming in and they will buy out even the big warehouse guys you see on cnn. They buy out politicians to enact policy that they will ultimately benefit from. They will buy up and or construct huge greenhouses. There is too much money in this for them not to. Moving units or zips to your brokers or your buddies is going bye bye. And alot sooner than you or i think.

 

[FauxRoux]

Its almost like the younger or newer growers have just started to get really good at growing. They love it. They got the shit dialed and on point. Its becoming "easy" now. They stuck to it for the last few years and they are growing some seriuos fire. And theres good money rolling in there wallet. I know...its all really nice rite now. Beleive me..been there. Just want to inject a little reality into what it is thats about to happen. Iam with you. I want this little gravy train to keep rolling forever too. But its not. Its going to come to a grinding halt for just about all of us. The big money people are coming in and they will buy out even the big warehouse guys you see on cnn. They buy out politicians to enact policy that they will ultimately benefit from. They will buy up and or construct huge greenhouses. There is too much money in this for them not to. Moving units or zips to your brokers or your buddies is going bye bye. And alot sooner than you or i think.

Well its no surprise growers these days have skills. There's a multi million dollar industry supplying them specialty equipment. Just like the CA goldrush. I doubt as many would be as into it if we were still at that magical day we realized you could use shop lights instead of 20-30 fluorescent tubes strapped together, and all for $10-20 lids.

Still thougthough....i dont think it will be a grinding halt or major takeover. It will simply be a gradual drop in market value as large production ramps up, flooding the market. Again, I understand that mass production isnt organic permaculture...but other then people growing a few raised beds in the yard MOST folks still buy their organic produce from a farmers market...and lets be honest...those small farmers have more experience, space, equipment, budget and knowhow then your average bear.

The only thing I personally think the average grower is diluting themselves about with this is that somehiw this crop wont go the way of literally every other speciality crop.

But having said that Im certainly rooting for each and every one of us.

 

[since1991]

What you will see is the smaller basement , tent, closet, spare room guys start shutting down. Then it will work its way up to the spare rental house ops across town. There are several of those in michigan. Then the bigger out door plots wont get cared for as much. Then it will just compound on itself when smokers realize they can buy an ounce of good marijuana at a store (specialty or not ) for about 25 to 50$. The smaller guys will eat it first. They already are in my town. Zips going for 150$ or less. Its not worth it for these smaller dudes to turn the lights on. The ones still running a room in a basement or a tent guy is just wanting thier own clean smoke that they know where it comes from. Ive scaled down myself. Shut 3 houses down in the last 2 years. Just not worth it. I basically got a veg house and my flower house in the same neighborhood. Its still viable but its brutal out here. 10 years ago it was no problem. Gone soon as it was cured. As much as i could give out. To maybe 3 brokers. Not now. Thank god i got a decent wage slave job. Michigan is going legal soon. Iam pretty much done when that happens. I will run a few sativas in my backyard greenhouse but other than that iam finished. Let the rest of you fight over scraps. And it will slowly decay more and more within that time frame.

 

[Joegrowsalot]

Quick just Ockham's razer kind of thought first off, there will be many many cases where big ag will have no interest in changing the crop farm to farm, again this is coming to what state you're in, with water so scarce it makes sense many farmers will want to get into a higher profit crop there.. So We will agree to disagree I just don't see it happening how you think it will across the whole country because I'm in a state where that awesome 20 acre crop is going to and yes I see the neglect, the bugs, even the great stuff we get from there I can tell when it's from a massive outdoor grow. And we aren't getting much of anything from co. That tells me Colorado growers have less of a need to export. Ca garnered such a reputation of the place to be for weed for ten twenty years now, couple that with my generation coming of age to take over some of rich daddy's land to build a place in the triangle and grow on large scales, many ogs out there too doing their thing from before we were around. It's a boiling point and right now the cheapest worst stuff is coming our way same as every year at harvest season. You guys keep the best for yourselves it stays in state mostly so I'm not saying there isn't bomb and I've gotten some of it many times I'm just saying that's part of why we see the future differently, when the density in ca spreads out as it becomes easier and easier to get in the industry and more states legalize, I believe prices will flatten out again instead of this little drop we are seeing. You guys have pressure there to sell and the price gets driven down. As more people grow there more must export and simultaneously their market is getting choked out as other states supply themselves and again you see a price cut. Understand that that lb you drop for 2g gets flipped on my state and easily for 24-26 if it's a personal buddy up to 3 even and, brace yourself, up to 38 if it's prime stuff So I do think there's huge opportunity left in every state that has not legalized yet as they do, and some that have. Lol I would appreciate if some of you guys would sit on your crop at harvest, Chuck your failures (spider mites), and stop selling cheap to middlemen that would help stop driving the prices down at all in the first place!! On the matter of outdoor vs indoor cost and price elsewhere than ca, if it gets to the point California is at (which it won't due to reasons I explain above)

I know for a fact there will always be someone willing to pay whatever I ask as long as I can produce a better product.

W.W.

I totally agree

 

[hellmutt bones]

Bro!
Did you know that all these big produce "companies" have mass murdered all these rurral 3world farmers/people, just to monopolize the exotic fruit from other countries!
Bro!

 

[I.G.Rowdit]

Bro have u seen what these companies and the government have done to the vegetable seeds?
Is a full out war already. They force you to buy seeds over and over, when in reality the natural vegetables are always producing seeds these modified seeds dont produce seeds so ur forced to buy from them.

What you are blaming on some vague conspiracy is simply a biological reality, hybrids do not come true from seed. Whether you are dealing with corn or cannabis you are a prisoner of the intersection of biology and commerce. Hybrids offer better performance so seed companies develop hybrids. The price you as the grower pay is that you have to buy hybrid seeds from the seed company.

If you want vegetable plants that come true from seed there are innumerable commercial sources and you can always just save your own seed. I've been growing the same summer squash variety for almost 25 years and never purchases a single seed.

Take a look at the cannabis seed industry. To my knowledge nobody bases their business model on stable, fixed strains. They may say they do but in 20 years of growing cannabis from seed I've yet to see a seed grown strain, regardless of price or provenance, that had the consistency of a pack of tomato seeds purchased at Walmart.

If there is a conspiracy here it is cannabis seed producers implying that their seed will produce plants that are 100% like the pictured variety. In reality, some plants may be like or even superior to the 'original' but most will be different.

 

[since1991]

Cannabis being the plant that it is will always have some variation no matter what is done in the breeding. Very difficult to nail down in my limited understanding of breeding. Believe it or not ive seen more uniformity and stability in properly made feminized seed from the few that do it exceptionally well. The most uniform stable cultivar that you can actually call a "variety" ive grown has got to be original Skunk #1 from the handful of Dutch seed companys years ago. Now iam not so sure. After that it gets murky.....blueberry, ak47, white (black) widow being the next in line. Silver Haze? Forget it. Haze is notorious gor being elusive on phetotype uniformity.

 

[kermit2692]

There's just so many attributes available within cannabis that variation is nearly impossible to separate. I agree Fems seem to have more stability, because they are all back crosses??? I think..

 

[hellmutt bones]

What you are blaming on some vague conspiracy is simply a biological reality, hybrids do not come true from seed. Whether you are dealing with corn or cannabis you are a prisoner of the intersection of biology and commerce. Hybrids offer better performance so seed companies develop hybrids. The price you as the grower pay is that you have to buy hybrid seeds from the seed company.

If you want vegetable plants that come true from seed there are innumerable commercial sources and you can always just save your own seed. I've been growing the same summer squash variety for almost 25 years and never purchases a single seed.

Take a look at the cannabis seed industry. To my knowledge nobody bases their business model on stable, fixed strains. They may say they do but in 20 years of growing cannabis from seed I've yet to see a seed grown strain, regardless of price or provenance, that had the consistency of a pack of tomato seeds purchased at Walmart.

If there is a conspiracy here it is cannabis seed producers implying that their seed will produce plants that are 100% like the pictured variety. In reality, some plants may be like or even superior to the 'original' but most will be different.

U probably also work for Chiquita Bananas.