Donald Trump

[OddBall1st]

About 1,999 years of Christian history says otherwise.

I has family back then, should I surrender to somebody for my punishment. Keep in mind these people thought the world was flat and saw a round moon for a long time, Good thing the population was mini back then as it not today.

 

[OddBall1st]

Jesus...Obviously no ones invading Canada....what is this?.... "American Bacon"? Ok there John Candy. But sure we can ignore the underlying reasons for these issues if you like.

I love these right wing racist "true americans"...they claim to be true americans but havn't joined the military ( i did btw) and expect others to die and fight for their rights(like voting). christians but they cant help suffering people cause their too afraid of the few violent wingnuts.

Since 9/11 more Americans have been killed by christian zealots then muslim ones.

So maybe do the Christian and American thing and show some balls and compassion.

Any soldier know some make it, some don`t, and some don`t get by the first doctor. You don`t even have to be a soldier to know that. Maybe you just feel better say`n that shit.

 

[pnwmystery]

I has family back then, should I surrender to somebody for my punishment. Keep in mind these people thought the world was flat and saw a round moon for a long time, Good thing the population was mini back then as it not today.

No I'm saying it's stupid to say "Christianity is tolerant." It is literally one of the most intolerant religions on the face of the Earth. And guess what? Islam directly stems from Christianity. They think Jesus Christ was one of the greatest prophets along with Abraham and Mohammed. As a lot of people say here "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree," when making fun of Islam and it's warlike tendencies with the history of Mohammed. It really does not seeing as how when the Crusaders took Jerusalem they wrote that they put the populace (men, women, and children) to the sword and waded through streets of blood.

With Christianity there were almost 2,000 years of warfare and atrocities justified "in the name of Christ." Pogroms were done by Eastern Orthodox, the Inquisition by Catholics, slave trade largely by Protestants. To say Christianity does not have its faults is to be willfully ignorant and not even begin to a attempt to understand the history of the world.

 

[FauxRoux]

Any soldier know some make it, some don`t, and some don`t get by the first doctor. You don`t even have to be a soldier to know that. Maybe you just feel better say`n that shit.

Ok...thats just a plain non-sequitur...What does that have to do with the fact that as a vocal right wing American Christian you are not willing to....

A) Show compassion to refugees.
B) Have the balls to accept that doing the right thing isn't always safe.
C) Even have the balls to go out there and defend the values you seem to hold...in a tangible way other then voting for trump.

P.S. Damn right I like pointing out blatant hypocrisy.

 

[FauxRoux]

And guess what? Islam directly stems from Christianity.

It actually sprang directly from Judaism in the 6th- 7th century.

 

[Lord Kanti]

No I'm saying it's stupid to say "Christianity is tolerant." It is literally one of the most intolerant religions on the face of the Earth. And guess what? Islam directly stems from Christianity. They think Jesus Christ was one of the greatest prophets along with Abraham and Mohammed. As a lot of people say here "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree," when making fun of Islam and it's warlike tendencies with the history of Mohammed. It really does not seeing as how when the Crusaders took Jerusalem they wrote that they put the populace (men, women, and children) to the sword and waded through streets of blood.

With Christianity there were almost 2,000 years of warfare and atrocities justified "in the name of Christ." Pogroms were done by Eastern Orthodox, the Inquisition by Catholics, slave trade largely by Protestants. To say Christianity does not have its faults is to be willfully ignorant and not even begin to a attempt to understand the history of the world.

Quote Jesus telling his followers to kill non followers.

 

[OddBall1st]

No I'm saying it's stupid to say "Christianity is tolerant." It is literally one of the most intolerant religions on the face of the Earth. And guess what? Islam directly stems from Christianity. They think Jesus Christ was one of the greatest prophets along with Abraham and Mohammed. As a lot of people say here "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree," when making fun of Islam and it's warlike tendencies with the history of Mohammed. It really does not seeing as how when the Crusaders took Jerusalem they wrote that they put the populace (men, women, and children) to the sword and waded through streets of blood.

With Christianity there were almost 2,000 years of warfare and atrocities justified "in the name of Christ." Pogroms were done by Eastern Orthodox, the Inquisition by Catholics, slave trade largely by Protestants. To say Christianity does not have its faults is to be willfully ignorant and not even begin to a attempt to understand the history of the world.

I can put all those 2000 year ago populations in my hand, I`d need a Grand Canyon or something for the worlds population today,...It`s a whole different animal. Today, numbers make people that say no more. to bad guys. It`s gotta stop, Then they cry racist and shit.

 

[bearkat42]

Quote Jesus telling his followers to kill non followers.

Quote Jesus, lol.

 

[FauxRoux]

Quote Jesus telling his followers to kill non followers.

The quote you all are misrepresenting is...
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The message is: La ilaha illa Allah (none has the right to be worshipped except Allah)."

Now let us correct some mistakes in the 'question' itself. There is no such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.

Now here is the answer -

The word used most often in Quran, that is so often mistranslated as kill; slay; or slaughter is not jihad, it is Qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat.

Naturally, just as here in the U.S. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the Tafsir and explanations by top scholars today.

Scholars of Quran tsay that the verses dealing with this topic are specific and not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. The early Muslims had been driven out of their homes and turned out into the desert to starve. After finally, relocating to Medina, verses came in Quran instructing them to make hajj (pilgrimage) back to Makkah. Finding their way blocked and after several years of making agreements and treaties that the others continually broke, the Muslims were at last, told they could now fight in combat against the tyrants who had so horribly mistreated and abused them in the past. However, this would only be acceptable to Allah if they remained within very specific limitations. The word "Qital" in Arabic in this instance refers to "combat" rather than what some have used "kill" because the word "kill" is far to general, while the word "combat" appropriately describes what is intended by the usage in this passage.

It should also be noted the usage of the word "Fitnah" in the same verse denotes a horrible condition, not unlike what we find today when there is terrorism and tyranny against the moral and just society at large. It would be easy to properly understand the meaning as, "Engage them in combat, even killing them, until the state of "Fitnah" (terrorism) no longer exists in the society and people are free to worship Allah by their choice."

We can see these verse are not designed to promote terrorism, but rather these are very orders from Above to the Muslims to be the first of those who stand out aggressively against all forms of terrorism and oppression.

Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Allah ordered believers in the Quran to wage combat against terrorism - 14 centuries ago. And the "struggle against oppression, terrorism and tyranny" in the Arabic language, it is called, "Jihad."
--Sheikh Yusuf Estes
------------------------------
People forget that after the fall of Rome it was Muslims that carried the torch of civilization, education and accepting multicultural societies. To say they are where their at today is solely based on their religion dogma is a complete fallacy. Christians were just as brutal in the middle ages as anyone today. If you haven't noticed Christian zealots killing good people here in the U.S. despite their "positive accepting dogma" you're wearing blinders.


So I guess we can add this to my above list....

D) Making hypocritical decisions based on "widely believed facts" rather then bothering to make an effort to first educate yourself, then think objectively.

Which of course is people making up facts to suit an opinion as opposed to the other way around. Which I believe is quite telling personally.

When a society is lacking and has weak basic education its easy for snake oil salesmen to take advantage of a population..... I mean....even here people are going to vote for TRUMP! ...nuff said

 

[Lord Kanti]

The quote you all are misrepresenting is...
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The message is: La ilaha illa Allah (none has the right to be worshipped except Allah)."

Now let us correct some mistakes in the 'question' itself. There is no such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.

Now here is the answer -

The word used most often in Quran, that is so often mistranslated as kill; slay; or slaughter is not jihad, it is Qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat.

Naturally, just as here in the U.S. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the Tafsir and explanations by top scholars today.

Scholars of Quran tsay that the verses dealing with this topic are specific and not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. The early Muslims had been driven out of their homes and turned out into the desert to starve. After finally, relocating to Medina, verses came in Quran instructing them to make hajj (pilgrimage) back to Makkah. Finding their way blocked and after several years of making agreements and treaties that the others continually broke, the Muslims were at last, told they could now fight in combat against the tyrants who had so horribly mistreated and abused them in the past. However, this would only be acceptable to Allah if they remained within very specific limitations. The word "Qital" in Arabic in this instance refers to "combat" rather than what some have used "kill" because the word "kill" is far to general, while the word "combat" appropriately describes what is intended by the usage in this passage.

It should also be noted the usage of the word "Fitnah" in the same verse denotes a horrible condition, not unlike what we find today when there is terrorism and tyranny against the moral and just society at large. It would be easy to properly understand the meaning as, "Engage them in combat, even killing them, until the state of "Fitnah" (terrorism) no longer exists in the society and people are free to worship Allah by their choice."

We can see these verse are not designed to promote terrorism, but rather these are very orders from Above to the Muslims to be the first of those who stand out aggressively against all forms of terrorism and oppression.

Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Allah ordered believers in the Quran to wage combat against terrorism - 14 centuries ago. And the "struggle against oppression, terrorism and tyranny" in the Arabic language, it is called, "Jihad."
--Sheikh Yusuf Estes
------------------------------
People forget that after the fall of Rome it was Muslims that carried the torch of civilization, education and accepting multicultural societies. To say they are where their at today is solely based on their religion dogma is a complete fallacy. Christians were just as brutal in the middle ages as anyone today. If you haven't noticed Christian zealots killing good people here in the U.S. despite their "positive accepting dogma" you're wearing blinders.


So I guess we can add this to my above list....

D) Making hypocritical decisions based on "widely believed facts" rather then bothering to make an effort to first educate yourself, then think objectively.

Which of course is people making up facts to suit an opinion as opposed to the other way around. Which I believe is quite telling personally.

When a society is lacking and has weak basic education its easy for snake oil salesmen to take advantage of a population..... I mean....even here people are going to vote for TRUMP! ...nuff said

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

Shall I continue this tale of deception and murder sanctioned by Mohammed, or are you going to tell us that "yes" has a different meaning in Arabic?

 

[OddBall1st]

Quote Jesus, lol.

I can quote Washington stating he cannot tell a lie and I never met him. Just read about it.

 

[pnwmystery]

Quote Jesus telling his followers to kill non followers.

Have you ever read the bible out of curiosity? I know the entire the New Testament outweighs the Old Testament but have read past the gospel or ever read anything relating to the year ~300AD to the Balkans

 

[Lord Kanti]

Have you ever read the bible out of curiosity? I know the entire the New Testament outweighs the Old Testament but have read past the gospel or ever read anything relating to the year ~300AD to the Balkans

If it's too difficult for you, they make bibles with red text to let the reader know when Jesus spake. Just skim the bright red words and copy whatever Jesus said regarding his instructions to kill non believers.

 

[pnwmystery]

If it's too difficult for you, they make bibles with red text to let the reader know when Jesus spake. Just skim the bright red words and copy whatever Jesus said regarding his instructions to kill non believers.

I'm not saying Jesus did, however didn't Jesus say to love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek? And to accept people? How does this translate into war in the name of Christ, or are you telling me that all religions are capable of twisting words and that they have small proportions of extremists?

 

[bearkat42]

I can quote Washington stating he cannot tell a lie and I never met him. Just read about it.

And I can quote Mother Goose, and I've never met her. We can play this game all night. Since we're discussing fairy tales.

 

[Corso312]

Quote Jesus, lol.

Lol.. After that Quote, I want a rebuttal from a unicorn and bigfoot.

 

[Lord Kanti]

I'm not saying Jesus did, however didn't Jesus say to love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek? And to accept people? How does this translate into war in the name of Christ, or are you telling me that all religions are capable of twisting words and that they have small proportions of extremists?

I didn't twist anything. Mohammad told his follower to lie in order to murder.

There is no similar verse spoken by Jesus.

Try again.

 

[Corso312]

Cmon man, The bible, Koran both just two thousand year old comic books.

 

[Lord Kanti]

Cmon man, The bible, Koran both just two thousand year old comic books.

Islam promotes murder and deception. Insult religion however you like, but that doesn't change the fact that nearly 2 billion people believe these teachings. There is no twisting, there is no misunderstood meaning. Mohammad said "YES" to both murder and deception. There is not one mirrored quote that can be found that can be attributed to Jesus Christ. Islam is NOT Christianity.

 

[FauxRoux]

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

Shall I continue this tale of deception and murder sanctioned by Mohammed, or are you going to tell us that "yes" has a different meaning in Arabic?

Your argument is erroneous. Christians have been killing in the name of Christ since basically the start (as has been pointed out to you many times now) But if you want to continue thinking "you're" interpretation of God is the "right one" because_____......well go right ahead if it makes you feel special. But you dont have moral authority high ground here based on perceived greater good. You want to play that game Buddha wins.

Either you can wrap your head around the concept that ALL religious dogma is subjective and open to interpretation (or at least that ALL religious people do that by definition) or you cant. Just cause some folks choose to kill in the name of Allah and rationalize it through an interpretation does not damn the whole bunch. By that logic I guess YOU'RE responsible for shooting black folks in churches because some wingnut interpreted the message of Christ a particular way. Hitler believed he was doing a personal favor to God by clearing out the "mud races", was that you too?

The KKK were well ingrained into the infrastructure of our country in the 1860's but I wouldn't say they represented our country or Christians as a whole.

Stop hiding behind your literal interpretation comparison and acknowledge that your root point is based on a lie. The word of christ being violent or not does NOT mean christains are not and have not been violent in his name. The word of islam promoting violence does NOT mean all Muslims are violent in its name.