"Super Soil" maintenence requirements?

[GhostShadow]

IF you have peat you dont need to add sulfur. so forget sulfur sulfates http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.4319/lo.1994.39.5.1172/pdf

if you need Mg use micronized azomite to drench your soil prior to cooking. also try a high mg natural amendment which will break down more slowly like composted chicken manure or Kelp meal ... "

Kelp: Not exactly a staple in U.S. kitchens, but it should be, as it’s the granddaddy of sea veggies, and delivers 780 mg of Mg—no other food source comes close to that

check out these macros / micros Kelp kicks ass (also adds sulfur and sodium)
http://www.noamkelp.com/technical/slanalysis.html

I EWC


l

 

[Dr. Who]

IF you have peat you dont need to add sulfur. so forget sulfur sulfates http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.4319/lo.1994.39.5.1172/pdf

if you need Mg use micronized azomite to drench your soil prior to cooking. also try a high mg natural amendment which will break down more slowly like composted chicken manure or Kelp meal ... "

Kelp: Not exactly a staple in U.S. kitchens, but it should be, as it’s the granddaddy of sea veggies, and delivers 780 mg of Mg—no other food source comes close to that

check out these macros / micros Kelp kicks ass (also adds sulfur and sodium)
http://www.noamkelp.com/technical/slanalysis.html

I EWC


l

Oh this is SOOO right!

Kelp is ALWAYS in my soils! 1c per c/ft
For a liming agent I like Oystershell (powdered) mixed with eggshell (well crushed) when building soils.
I do keep Ag lime (dolo) around and like I said I add it to FF soils at 1/2 cup per bag to cover their shortage.

Another thing about Dolomite is that it constricts or tightens the soil leading to possible anaerobic conditions (fermentation).

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

Should I try to get the coarsest/largest perlite possible, 1" pebbles too large?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I've heard so many different opinions on this. I've been told when using "Super Soil" you will not need to feed your plants, no need to flush the soil, no need to monitor the PH. Just water and watch it grow. How true are these statements?

much of your question and answer is predicated on your growing style, lights, size of container, and so on.
I personally don't like the recipe, many of the nutrients are too water soluble, layering soil is silly in my mind (especially when considering water solubility)
I like to use a mix of nutrients, all varying with their availability, meaning meal based nutrients that tend to breakdown much more slowly that the nutrient used in the supersoil.
slow release, coupled with medium, coupled with fast.
Make sense?
for example, for nitrogen
doghair, human hair, feather meal = slow release
crab meal, shrimp meal, neem meal, grass clippings= medium release
fast release are guanos, blood meal, fish meal
I also like my nutrients to have dual purposes
Example crab meal, buffers ph, supplies calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus, AND is a slow release.
Another example is neem meal, helps bugs, supplies a BUNCH of micros, AND has a nice source of nitrogen and phosphorus.
So on and so forth.
Also I do not like slaughterhouse products, in particular bone meal, that shit can kill you.

I also do NOT layer a damn thing, that's just silly in my opinion.

 

[whitey78]

I should post the recipee I'll be using just so everyone is on the same page. It's some variation of Subcools.

- 5 Bags (12.5 Cubic Ft.) Organic Soil
- 2.5lbs Bone Meal
- 2.5lbs Fish Bone Meal
- 5lbs Oyster Shells
- 5lbs Blood Meal
- 3lbs of Kelp Meal
- 2 cups Azomite
- 1 cup Dolomite Lime
- 4lbs Bat Guano
- 1lb Seabird Guano
- 2 Tablespoons Humic Acid
- 1 cup of epsom salts
- 33lbs of Earth Worm castings
- 1/2lb if Hydron Rocks
- 1/3 bag of perlite
- 3 Gallons distilled water

-Optional: Rock Phosphate & Live worms

These are not the most recent additions unless I missed something, that looks like the old mix or sidewigs... None are bad just make sure your using proven mixes unless you know your shit.... I use subcools suoersoil with the revs 2.1 soil and its been working out ok I just need to nail it down.... I'm missing something but not for long...

Do yourself a favor and give the actual recipe a try without adding anything else, make a 1/4 or 1/2 batch and do a couple of plants with it and see how it is... water only is the easiest way to grow unless you have nothing else in life to do.... Easy is good...

Recheck my #'s and if I"m missing something but I think I got it???

A full batch requires:
8 bags of roots (leave the fox farms at the store... I regret every time I make SS with it.... roots produces a much better end product I've found, I recycle my SS and I've wanted to dump it and start with roots too many times because I get the same results everytime my shop only has FF... but if you MUST run fox farms run 3 bags of happy frog and 5 bags of ocean forest = 8 bags or work out the ratio for a smaller batch)
5 pounds of high P guano
5 pounds of blood meal
5 pounds of fish bone meal
25-50 pounds of worm castings (mucho important) more is better but more requires more perlite usually... The mix usually could use a little more no matter what...
I forgot how much lime cuz I use RO.... I use more and ca/mg
Loose the epsom salt
I forgot how much azomite but I use both powdered and granular
2 table spoons of humic

Not sure if I'm missing anything or not
But add 3-4 gallons of water and mix like a Polaroid picture.... let it sit for 7 days..... mix it again and leave it alone for 3.5-4 weeks or until the PH range with a soil ph meter is somewhere between 6.0 and 7.0 as thats when its ready to use
But start with the OG mix and tweak to your liking after you get a baseline... try to use clones and run the same thing until you get it right, 8-9 week strains should be fading around week 6-7 somewhere.... Water only except on day 30 and 45 of 12/12 on which days hit them with some molasses or some kind of REAL sugar product (NOT a carbo/sweetener) ... soluable mycos at week 3-4 somewhere and you'll be right as rain..

A properly mixed batch of supersoil will in most cases take a plant from clone to harvest with a 8-10 week flowering time and 2 months of veg in a #7 nursery pot (10 gal I believe)... Fill halfway with super soil (on most strains) and fill rest of the pot with regular roots base mix.... Best to find out if your strains are heavy eaters prior... Any discolor in the leaves anywhere on the plant prior to weeks 2-3-4 of flowering calls for a top dress of at least an inch topdress of supersoil.... I find if I cover my soil with various forms of coco coir nesting material and coir chunks that stop the light get to the top of it my plants dont require as much food from beginning to end...

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

Forget the ingredients list I posted, no idea where I got it from. Fox Farm lacks the greensand, neam meal, and coco fiber found in Roots. It appears you could use any soil medium as long as you know what your doing, what to add in. In my case I unfortunately already have a ton of Fox Farm potting soil on hand that I would like to use. As far as cloning, something I would love to get into but not for me right now.

I do appreciate all the difference of opinions on here. Looking at what I already have on hand, the "Moonshine Mix" Dr. Who recommends really is the direction I want to go in. I do not want to use Bone Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Blood Meal, or any additional liming agents. Honestly I should have kept this thread outside of subcools section, I wasn't aware there were other SS recipees out there.

Grease Monkey Mann, so true! Layering doesn't make any sense now that you think about it.

 

[anzohaze]

I just read how trashed my typing was... sorry about that I can't fix it either......

 

[anzohaze]

Forget the ingredients list I posted, no idea where I got it from. Fox Farm lacks the greensand, neam meal, and coco fiber found in Roots. It appears you could use any soil medium as long as you know what your doing, what to add in. In my case I unfortunately already have a ton of Fox Farm potting soil on hand that I would like to use. As far as cloning, something I would love to get into but not for me right now.

I do appreciate all the difference of opinions on here. Looking at what I already have on hand, the "Moonshine Mix" Dr. Who recommends really is the direction I want to go in. I do not want to use Bone Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Blood Meal, or any additional liming agents. Honestly I should have kept this thread outside of subcools section, I wasn't aware there were other SS recipees out there.

Grease Monkey Mann, so true! Layering doesn't make any sense now that you think about it.

Greasemonkeymann Is the shit bro I always say this and always tag him but no need to anymore. I'll spread love for the
man anywere... he is a true leader in organics on riu.. yes there are many others as well on here but he is GREAT......

I would def buy him a hooker @Dr. Who(another smart guy) I edited so making sure you still like this message

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

^

Hey I got some Rock Phosphate lying around, anybody use the stuff?

 

[GhostShadow]

sure. just be aware that it breaks down at a medium pace,r will contain some (<2-6%) immediate bio available nutrients. and will reduce your need to sweeten the soil . most of the phos is already locked in a stable form with the Ca. which will breakdown faster in soils with high humic value. the micronized variety will breakdown quicker.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Greasemonkeymann Is the shit bro I always say this and always tag him but no need to anymore. I'll spread love for the
man anywere... he is a true leader in organics on riu.. yes there are many others as well on here but he is GREAT......

I would def buy him a hooker @Dr. Who(another smart guy) I edited so making sure you still like this message

Hahhaha a hooker?!
Don't worry brother, I do alright with the ladies..
I appreciate the kind words though man, very cool of you to say.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Forget the ingredients list I posted, no idea where I got it from. Fox Farm lacks the greensand, neam meal, and coco fiber found in Roots. It appears you could use any soil medium as long as you know what your doing, what to add in. In my case I unfortunately already have a ton of Fox Farm potting soil on hand that I would like to use. As far as cloning, something I would love to get into but not for me right now.

I do appreciate all the difference of opinions on here. Looking at what I already have on hand, the "Moonshine Mix" Dr. Who recommends really is the direction I want to go in. I do not want to use Bone Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Blood Meal, or any additional liming agents. Honestly I should have kept this thread outside of subcools section, I wasn't aware there were other SS recipees out there.

Grease Monkey Mann, so true! Layering doesn't make any sense now that you think about it.

I would recommend the fish bone meal, I really like a slow release phosphorus input, but i guess you could sub it out with maybe shrimp and crab meal...
speaking of, since you said no liming agents i'd go with crab and shrimp meals, and oyster flour too

 

[anzohaze]

Hahhaha a hooker?!
Don't worry brother, I do alright with the ladies..
I appreciate the kind words though man, very cool of you to say.

Lol I feel ya my man

 

[GhostShadow]

just to say you need to be aware of your Ca. it is responsible for the majority of your cation saturation. 2/3 - 3/4 of it.

just to say no lime is a mistake.

'Cations are the positively charged ions of certain elements. The four shown here, potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca) and sodium (Na), represent the vast majority of the cation volume in soil. Actions to take for these elements have already been explained in previous sections. You do not need to completely understand this concept or know much about chemistry for these numbers to be useful. In the soil, these four elements are in somewhat of a competition, and your job is to assist them in reaching a proper balance. The percentage results shown on your Report indicate their relative proportions with the total of the percentages equaling nearly 100%. In other words, each percentage shown will depend on the levels of the other three cations - think of a pie being split among these four elements. The small remaining percentage is comprised of hydrogen - its presence is what determines pH. Typically, the larger this remainder, the lower the pH.
A well balanced soil will have the cations in the following ranges: 4-7% Potassium (K), 10-20% Magnesium (Mg), 65-75% Calcium (Ca), less than 3% Sodium (Na) and the balance of Hydrogen (H) cations in the range of 5-10%. It may take several years of corrective actions to bring your soil into proper balance."

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

just to say no lime is a mistake.

You don't use any though right? Didn't you say it can cause lockup of Phos, just to use Gran or Micro Azo? There's already some Dol in the soil anyways so I think I should be good if I refrain from adding more in.

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

I would recommend the fish bone meal, I really like a slow release phosphorus input

You aren't worried about getting mad fish disease, lol. No I heard it's good stuff, think I'll use it.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

You aren't worried about getting mad fish disease, lol. No I heard it's good stuff, think I'll use it.

Haha, exactly why bovine bonemeals freak me out..
prion disease is some scary shit... like from another planet type scary...

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

Mixing as I speak. So far I've added the greensand, pearlite, earthworm castings, and the coco fiber brick.

I dont use Dol lime at all in refreshed peat base mix just micronized Azo
I use granulated Azo in new mix.

GhostShadow, you said you use azomite instead of Dol. You feel 1 cup of Azo would be an adequte replacement for 1 cup of Dol?

Rest of the questions go to all:

Second question; like pearlite, should I rinse my Azo before adding it in? Third question; Should I grind up the coco brick or throw it in whole? Fourth question; I want to add some kelp meal into this mix, how much would you add to 4 cu. ft of soil?

 

[GhostShadow]

No thats too much azo for your mix use 1/8 to 1/4 cup granulated (and a few heaping tbls micronized if you have it in a solution and drench the bio mass with it.)

what are you using the dol for? adding calcium? raising pH? offsetting extremely acidic bio masses?

heres my original mix

2.2 ft*3 Canadian sphagnum peat moss (compressed)
2 ft*3 mushroom compost
1 ft*3 worm castings
3.5 ft*3 vermiculite
Into 9 ft*3 bio-mass fold
8 cup Dolomite lime
8 cup kelp meal
8 cup alfalfa meal
8 cup Tom/veg/herb fert
1 cup Azomite
9-10 gal water
double bag 2 4.5 ft*3 measures into 50 gl. leaf bags l
place on western exposure for 5 days then hand aerate every 3 days for 2 weeks
makes a really light fluffy fertile growing medium

as you can see I added dol in this mix dol is fine just dont over do it as I did here. Cal is very abundant and easy to get from other sources like tap water.
and it makes no sense use lime to pH up your soil and soil solution just to have to attempt to bring it back down to an optimum 6.0-6.3pH

Plus coco has a higher pH than peat based mixes. so you need even less lime to adjust the pH.

PS Iver been adding blood meal and a cotton seed meal based fert mixture to hold my soil down Ive also started adding neem seen meal to control gants and white flies.-
some folks like fish bone and crab meal to bump Ca in the soil as well.

if making this mix again I would also add a portion of micronized azo as well as a full measure granulated.

 

[Cannacopia Delight]

No thats too much azo for your mix use 1/8 to 1/4 cup granulated (and a few heaping tbls micronized if you have it in a solution and drench the bio mass with it.)

what are you using the dol for? adding calcium? raising pH? offsetting extremely acidic bio masses?

heres my original mix

2.2 ft*3 Canadian sphagnum peat moss (compressed)
2 ft*3 mushroom compost
1 ft*3 worm castings
3.5 ft*3 vermiculite
Into 9 ft*3 bio-mass fold
8 cup Dolomite lime
8 cup kelp meal
8 cup alfalfa meal
8 cup Tom/veg/herb fert
1 cup Azomite
9-10 gal water
double bag 2 4.5 ft*3 measures into 50 gl. leaf bags l
place on western exposure for 5 days then hand aerate every 3 days for 2 weeks
makes a really light fluffy fertile growing medium

as you can see I added dol in this mix dol is fine just dont over do it as I did here. Cal is very abundant and easy to get from other sources like tap water.
and it makes no sense use lime to pH up your soil and soil solution just to have to attempt to bring it back down to an optimum 6.0-6.3pH

Plus coco has a higher pH than peat based mixes. so you need even less lime to adjust the pH.

PS Iver been adding blood meal and a cotton seed meal based fert mixture to hold my soil down Ive also started adding neem seen meal to control gants and white flies.-
some folks like fish bone and crab meal to bump Ca in the soil as well.

if making this mix again I would also add a portion of micronized azo as well as a full measure granulated.

It's definitely cooking now! I read that mold is nothing to worry about, tells you everything is breaking down I hope. Now I haven't added any water yet and the mix already seems a bit moist and really light. What does adding ten gallons of water do? Also, should I leave it alone or periodically dump it out and mix it around?