Top bin COB comparison

[bassman999]

I

In conclusion, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of how a low-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob fairs against a top-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob. If those numbers are similar, then it's should be apparent to all that someone or something is falsely advertising their product.

I think this is the best and next course of action to be taken.

Also have you tested and Luminous Devices CMX-32 cobs yet?
I have a sample of 3000K and 3500K coming soon and have no way to test them, and would be excited to see test results to compare against CREE

 

[Rahz]

@AquariusPanta It's difficult to have any confidence in the idea that KB chips are the problem. I base this on the fact that robincnn's test results indicate the performance variance between CXB and Vero doesn't widen at lower currents. In fact the Vero seems to gain a bit of ground on CXB when the current is lowered!

This can't be a bin issue as relative performance at lower currents should be consistent regardless of the bin.

 

[Stephenj37826]

I'm very happy to see that someone else has taken the initiative to investigate the legitimacy of calculated data and compare it with real world numbers. That is science at it's absolute best and something that I find highly honorable.

My data taken from an Apogee PAR meter, which I take seriously and enthusiastically, shares similarities with your data, in that the difference in output between a Vero 29 and a top-bin Cree CXB3070/3590 is not as great as what we've been led to believe from our trusty datasheets.

Now before I went on hiatus a few months back, I sprung some data on you all on how these cobs compared against one another and much to my surprise, the Cree cobs DID NOT perform as greatly as expected when compared to their Vero counterparts. My final conclusions at that time were that either Cree was giving us exaggerated projections, Bridgelux was giving us deflated projections, the Cree COBS from Jerry were NOT genuinely binned as advertised, or that somewhere along the lines I goofed up and made considerable errors. Since then I've compared all of my data, plus some with the latest Mothership, and it's now evident through what you've provided, Robinccn, that there's something off with these Cree cobs that most, if not all of us are obtaining through Jerry Kingbrite.

I suspect ordering straight from Cree would serve as a hopeful yet costly attempt at restoring faith to the Cree CXB namesake but how practical is that for the DIY squad? And how do we, as consumers, differentiate between Jerry and other dealers of Cree cobs?

As far as the sphere test goes, I really don't see how taking that route is going to change anything that has already been established mainly because if someone has a PAR meter that measures X to Y wavelengths and also have a correction factor that takes into account W to X and Y to Z wavelengths, then it's simply a matter of light output and determining which lighting source puts more of it out. I'd suspect the blend of spectral discharge would vary between the Cree and Vero cobs, as well as between two of the same kind, but that's not something a bunch of us find indicative at this time when choosing between the two considering both cobs have similar spectral charts and are obviously kicking ass in the grow scene.

In conclusion, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of how a low-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob fairs against a top-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob. If those numbers are similar, then it's should be apparent to all that someone or something is falsely advertising their product.

How many different vero 29 have you tested in this manner? With bridgelux not binning I suspect that the veros could be all over the board in output. I may be wrong on this though.

 

[welight]

hmm, do non authorised resellers of Cree leds, creep on bin data, good question, answer yes they do. Its become an incredibly competitive space. China is the biggest consumer of leds and gets the best pricing on the planet. How do you tell, you really cant unless you test in depth. If you get a complete sealed tray of leds with Cree original data/markings on the pack, your golden, broken packs with Original Cree data/markings probably still ok but some risk, unmarked packs, highest risk factor. How do you avoid the problem, ensure you buy from a reliable source. I suspect the majority of people here using the Cree COB's seem pretty happy, but if you need to eek every last PPF at the lowest cost, with highest confidence then the discussion is worth having

 

[bassman999]

hmm, do non authorised resellers of Cree leds, creep on bin data, good question, answer yes they do. Its become an incredibly competitive space. China is the biggest consumer of leds and gets the best pricing on the planet. How do you tell, you really cant unless you test in depth. If you get a complete sealed tray of leds with Cree original data/markings on the pack, your golden, broken packs with Original Cree data/markings probably still ok but some risk, unmarked packs, highest risk factor. How do you avoid the problem, ensure you buy from a reliable source. I suspect the majority of people here using the Cree COB's seem pretty happy, but if you need to eek every last PPF at the lowest cost, with highest confidence then the discussion is worth having

I also wonder if the factory might mark higher binning on cobs as they are more valuable to them as well

 

[welight]

I also wonder if the factory might mark higher binning on cobs as they are more valuable to them as well

I could only comment on Cree and the answer is not a chance,

 

[dionysus4]

Nice man. Great testing. Thank you. I'll send you a cxb 3070 3500k bb so you can play with it.

We got to remember bins...ranges min to max. So might be one closer to max against more typical or lower ranged.

I'm still trying to get accurate spds of them. 15nm accuracy was a joke. Buying a stellar net for my Christmas gift to myself. Give us some more spds to compare to the data sheets.

this is the test we are all waiting for


as i remember you order from arrow not KB right?

 

[REALSTYLES]

I'm very happy to see that someone else has taken the initiative to investigate the legitimacy of calculated data and compare it with real world numbers. That is science at it's absolute best and something that I find highly honorable.

My data taken from an Apogee PAR meter, which I take seriously and enthusiastically, shares similarities with your data, in that the difference in output between a Vero 29 and a top-bin Cree CXB3070/3590 is not as great as what we've been led to believe from our trusty datasheets.

Now before I went on hiatus a few months back, I sprung some data on you all on how these cobs compared against one another and much to my surprise, the Cree cobs DID NOT perform as greatly as expected when compared to their Vero counterparts. My final conclusions at that time were that either Cree was giving us exaggerated projections, Bridgelux was giving us deflated projections, the Cree COBS from Jerry were NOT genuinely binned as advertised, or that somewhere along the lines I goofed up and made considerable errors. Since then I've compared all of my data, plus some with the latest Mothership, and it's now evident through what you've provided, Robinccn, that there's something off with these Cree cobs that most, if not all of us are obtaining through Jerry Kingbrite.

I suspect ordering straight from Cree would serve as a hopeful yet costly attempt at restoring faith to the Cree CXB namesake but how practical is that for the DIY squad? And how do we, as consumers, differentiate between Jerry and other dealers of Cree cobs?

As far as the sphere test goes, I really don't see how taking that route is going to change anything that has already been established mainly because if someone has a PAR meter that measures X to Y wavelengths and also have a correction factor that takes into account W to X and Y to Z wavelengths, then it's simply a matter of light output and determining which lighting source puts more of it out. I'd suspect the blend of spectral discharge would vary between the Cree and Vero cobs, as well as between two of the same kind, but that's not something a bunch of us find indicative at this time when choosing between the two considering both cobs have similar spectral charts and are obviously kicking ass in the grow scene.

In conclusion, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of how a low-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob fairs against a top-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob. If those numbers are similar, then it's should be apparent to all that someone or something is falsely advertising their product.

You have lost your fucking mind. Jerry is only a re seller who gives greats prices. I'd like to see what you are growing with your lights. Wait you are not . You are just trying to peddle the Vero lights you made. You are lucky I didn't decide to make my lights for sale because your lights would lose. Funny shit is I can show what my lights are doing and all you can do is spread deceit to sway people into buying your overpriced junk. I'd rather show people how to make a light than to rip them off. I also see how you've changed your design lol setting people up for the pick huh. It's funny how you went from DIY led to retail lol. Don't talk shit about Jerry he's a good guy and for you to try too dirty his name to get sales says a lot about your integrity.

 

[EfficientWatt]

Idiot

I'm very happy to see that someone else has taken the initiative to investigate the legitimacy of calculated data and compare it with real world numbers. That is science at it's absolute best and something that I find highly honorable.

My data taken from an Apogee PAR meter, which I take seriously and enthusiastically, shares similarities with your data, in that the difference in output between a Vero 29 and a top-bin Cree CXB3070/3590 is not as great as what we've been led to believe from our trusty datasheets.

Now before I went on hiatus a few months back, I sprung some data on you all on how these cobs compared against one another and much to my surprise, the Cree cobs DID NOT perform as greatly as expected when compared to their Vero counterparts. My final conclusions at that time were that either Cree was giving us exaggerated projections, Bridgelux was giving us deflated projections, the Cree COBS from Jerry were NOT genuinely binned as advertised, or that somewhere along the lines I goofed up and made considerable errors. Since then I've compared all of my data, plus some with the latest Mothership, and it's now evident through what you've provided, Robinccn, that there's something off with these Cree cobs that most, if not all of us are obtaining through Jerry Kingbrite.

I suspect ordering straight from Cree would serve as a hopeful yet costly attempt at restoring faith to the Cree CXB namesake but how practical is that for the DIY squad? And how do we, as consumers, differentiate between Jerry and other dealers of Cree cobs?

As far as the sphere test goes, I really don't see how taking that route is going to change anything that has already been established mainly because if someone has a PAR meter that measures X to Y wavelengths and also have a correction factor that takes into account W to X and Y to Z wavelengths, then it's simply a matter of light output and determining which lighting source puts more of it out. I'd suspect the blend of spectral discharge would vary between the Cree and Vero cobs, as well as between two of the same kind, but that's not something a bunch of us find indicative at this time when choosing between the two considering both cobs have similar spectral charts and are obviously kicking ass in the grow scene.

In conclusion, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of how a low-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob fairs against a top-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob. If those numbers are similar, then it's should be apparent to all that someone or something is falsely advertising their product.

You're using incomplete data to draw conclusions out of your ass ..

... and saying Jerry is selling fake bin cxs with no proof.

look how low you've come ... shame on you ..

 

[Rahz]

How many different vero 29 have you tested in this manner? With bridgelux not binning I suspect that the veros could be all over the board in output. I may be wrong on this though.

2 samples isn't a sure bet, but look at the output between the two Veros... almost identical.

 

[alesh]

I'm very happy to see that someone else has taken the initiative to investigate the legitimacy of calculated data and compare it with real world numbers. That is science at it's absolute best and something that I find highly honorable.

My data taken from an Apogee PAR meter, which I take seriously and enthusiastically, shares similarities with your data, in that the difference in output between a Vero 29 and a top-bin Cree CXB3070/3590 is not as great as what we've been led to believe from our trusty datasheets.

Now before I went on hiatus a few months back, I sprung some data on you all on how these cobs compared against one another and much to my surprise, the Cree cobs DID NOT perform as greatly as expected when compared to their Vero counterparts. My final conclusions at that time were that either Cree was giving us exaggerated projections, Bridgelux was giving us deflated projections, the Cree COBS from Jerry were NOT genuinely binned as advertised, or that somewhere along the lines I goofed up and made considerable errors. Since then I've compared all of my data, plus some with the latest Mothership, and it's now evident through what you've provided, Robinccn, that there's something off with these Cree cobs that most, if not all of us are obtaining through Jerry Kingbrite.

I suspect ordering straight from Cree would serve as a hopeful yet costly attempt at restoring faith to the Cree CXB namesake but how practical is that for the DIY squad? And how do we, as consumers, differentiate between Jerry and other dealers of Cree cobs?

As far as the sphere test goes, I really don't see how taking that route is going to change anything that has already been established mainly because if someone has a PAR meter that measures X to Y wavelengths and also have a correction factor that takes into account W to X and Y to Z wavelengths, then it's simply a matter of light output and determining which lighting source puts more of it out. I'd suspect the blend of spectral discharge would vary between the Cree and Vero cobs, as well as between two of the same kind, but that's not something a bunch of us find indicative at this time when choosing between the two considering both cobs have similar spectral charts and are obviously kicking ass in the grow scene.

In conclusion, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of how a low-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob fairs against a top-bin Cree CXB3590/3070 cob. If those numbers are similar, then it's should be apparent to all that someone or something is falsely advertising their product.

Sorry bro but measuring density by the Apogee meter is not really 'science at its absolute best'. ))
I agree that KB might not be selling what they advertise, though. I'm confident that Cree products perform exactly as specified in data sheets. Should be interesting to compare '3500K CD' from KB to '3500K CD' from Cutter or Mouser.

 

[dionysus4]

Sorry bro but measuring density by the Apogee meter is not really 'science at its absolute best'. ))
I agree that KB might not be selling what they advertise, though. I'm confident that Cree products perform exactly as specified in data sheets. Should be interesting to compare '3500K CD' from KB to '3500K CD' from Cutter or Mouser.

absolutely not a science-even so many variables( a tiny breeze in one of the tests, i micro mm of dif between sensor distance, dif thickness of tim, dif smoothness of sink etc etc etc)

but even so we can call approximate field testing
the data could be very dif than the data sheets and perhaps the veros just perform better in this kind of test.

But the question everyone is asking is the reason I never bought from jerry in the 1st place

thats is "what if he is just telling me it's CD bin when its really AD bin?(or whatever bins)

(sorry realstyles to suggest your boyfriend is not an angel)

i think it would be very helpful for the community to at least get a sample of 10 cobs tested to compare

5 from KB and 5 from an authorised reseller

not science but at least smth better than blind faith

otherwise we may as well be running cxa2530s at 5w from known suppliers lol

 

[REALSTYLES]

absolutely not a science-even so many variables( a tiny breeze in one of the tests, i micro mm of dif between sensor distance, dif thickness of tim, dif smoothness of sink etc etc etc)

but even so we can call approximate field testing
the data could be very dif than the data sheets and perhaps the veros just perform better in this kind of test.

But the question everyone is asking is the reason I never bought from jerry in the 1st place

thats is "what if he is just telling me it's CD bin when its really AD bin?(or whatever bins)

(sorry realstyles to suggest your boyfriend is not an angel)

i think it would be very helpful for the community to at least get a sample of 10 cobs tested to compare

5 from KB and 5 from an authorised reseller

not science but at least smth better than blind faith

otherwise we may as well be running cxa2530s at 5w from known suppliers lol

Really??? Just listen to what you are saying. Cree is made in China. I have over 70 Cree COBs left and I have plant proof not scientific equations but the science plays apart. You guys don't even know what I've done because I haven't told you what I've done or what I have under my sleeve hahahaha. You guys forget I've grown for a big OP

 

[alesh]

Really??? Just listen to what you are saying. Cree is made in China. I have over 70 Cree COBs left and I have plant proof not scientific equations but the science plays apart. You guys don't even know what I've done because I haven't told you what I've done or what I have under my sleeve hahahaha. You guys forget I've grown for a big OP

Is there some sand in your vagina?

 

[REALSTYLES]

Oh I forgot to say I'm not using any AC at all. Just think about it. REALSTYLES for the win.



Only 6 plants.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Is there some sand in your vagina?

LOL only dollars in my pockets.

 

[alesh]

Oh I forgot to say I'm not using any AC at all. Just think about it. REALSTYLES for the win.

View attachment 3566199

Only 6 plants.

Yeah that's just the definite proof that CD bin from KB is really a CD bin. No need to discuss it any further. You're ridiculous sometimes.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Is there some sand in your vagina?

Funny shit is no one knows my grow capabilities.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Yeah that's just the definite proof that CD bin from KB is really a CD bin. No need to discuss it any further. You're ridiculous sometimes.

I'm shocked you of all people acting like me. I'm a rogue and you sir I thought better of you. You are too smart to fall for my antics. PM Supra he'll let you know what I'm really about or just Skype me and we can talk. I'm tired of the bullshit. If you got a mic Skype me.

 

[BenSeiDank]

I believe that junction temp is inside the package. If I understand correctly the LES can be higher than the junction temp. That is why it is difficult to directly measure junction temp. It is also difficult to measure LES temp because the huge stream of photons will interfere with the reading. You could click the light off and quickly try to get an LES temp reading with a thermometer that is pre-warmed to the approximate LES temp. I have never tried to do that but it would be an interesting test.

I tested temp droop after switch off. It was nearly the same Temperature as heatsink. Maybe 5 degrees more as heatsink. I use 1400mA, 3000K AD bin. Heatsink was 52 degrees and LES after switch off about 56 degrees.