Defoliation - Touchy Subject My Theory (Veg + Flower)

[saiyaneye]

I am pretty sure others know this. This is just a theory I think about, it may be flawed, personal experience and opinions have me set on this technique. I have found that defoliation is a touchy subject among all growers. Now I would like to discuss how you personally feel on defoliation techniques. I have noticed great yields with defoliation as have others. I personally think you want to do the majority of it towards the end of your veg cycle, yes it stunts the growth of the plant maybe a week or two. But if you are not in a huge hurry you are going to gain a quality plant that is open and will receive more light to it's lower nodes and branches.

Veg
I have taken nearly all large leaves off during veg in two to three stages, yes it will slow the growth of the plant tremendously, however, the node growth skyrockets once it recovers. Sometimes, depending how aggressive you are with the plant and how young it is, it can take up to two weeks for it to recover. You will notice it not taking in much water during this also, but it will bounce back.

Flower
During flower, I try to do this as little as possible, try to defoliate your plant as much as you can in the vegative state, you do not want stress in the flowering cycle right? Last month of flower I have not seen any negative results with selective defoliation...
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I like to horizontal grow. Bending the plant nearly in half allowing each branch to grow up so you can have a separate cola. This has increased my yields substantially.

Please don't simply reply with "don't", please give a reason, have you done a test with a control or have you just gone off others opinions?

 

[Resinhound]

You make some good points...I have just 1 question.

If its so good to defoilate...why is it such a debated topic.You would think this would already be firmly proven by now.

 

[saiyaneye]

I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.

If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?

 

[Josch Edgington]

Sounds cool your not the only one I have heard this from. Some say leave leaves on some do it at various stages. I say do what your comfortable with and you see the improvement in the yield then it works for you keep doing it.

 

[Josch Edgington]

I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.

If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?

You would need to measure the light to keep it the same on the plants temps same and nutes same then you could possibly see the diff. I have two same clones from same mother one has twice as much bud as the other. I've switched their positions in the room and everything one is still fatter than the other.

 

[Uncle Ben]

With every new crop of newbies......

 

[budman111]

I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.

If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?

Or, look at it this way, If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg then why pull all leaves off?

 

[chuck estevez]

300 pages and No side by side ever completed, oh wait, been there done that.

 

[Bugeye]

Defoliation is perfect for folks that have a psychological need to fuck with their plants as much as possible. To each their own.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Please don't simply reply with "don't", please give a reason, have you done a test with a control or have you just gone off others opinions?

As a new member you're being disrespectful to the many members who have engaged dozens of threads and thousands of posts on this stupid practice. FWIW, not one has produced a non-biased, independent report done by a bonafide agricultural lab. it's all stoner talk and forum anecdotal evidence which is not credible. It's also a noob thing.

Please lurk and so a search using the keywords of defoliation, lollipopping and stupid RIU practices and myths.

Thanks

 

[chuck estevez]

I think the only way to "prove" it is to have side by side clones and defoliate two and leave two alone.

If you can top, fim, supercrop during veg why not be able to pull leaves off?

BTW, topping, fiming and supercropping are training plants taking advantage of a thing called apical dominance, look it up. defoliating is not the same thing.

 

[Keighan]

I've seen natural defoliation lead to a substantial increase in branching length, doesn't mean it increases yield though, you may be 'redirecting energy' but especially in the case of large fan leaves that's a lot of photosynthesis loss that's why the leaves are there for right? The collection of photons

 

[tropicalcannabispatient]

If a plant doesn't need a leaf she will discarded herself. So tired of this subject. Smh. Thats why u hear them later... HELP MY PLANT IS DYING!!! HELLPPPPP WHATS GOING ON WITH MY PLANTS?? SO TIRED OF THAT

 

[SPLFreak808]

I just dont fucking get it no more. I have personally tried 8 different cuts only 6 of them made it to flower.

If you defoliate during veg, not only does it stunt the plant but the plant will make new leaves higher up to compromise for what you cut off. The new growth will be small unless you veg and heal it meaning by the time its done your back to square ONE!

If you defoliate during flower you WILL STUNT THE FUCK out of whatever branch you fucked with which pro-longs flower time, even if you could wait 2-4 weeks longer, you will have very leafy somewhat airy buds because again, the plant tried to compromise for what you have cut off.

If you defoliate too much during veg or flower, you get severe nute burn using the same feed. Its just not worth it, and while i did not get pop corn down below, the bag appeal looks like shit and the yields were NOT higher then my undefoliated clones. Nothing worse then holding a baseball nug in your hand that weighs 4 grams when the last nug of the same size from thr clone left alone was 8 grams. You guys can try whatever you like but keep in mind how old those defoliating threads are, NOBODY has been happy with the results except for tgat single dumbass that started the defo thread. Dont reply with "you're supposed to defo 21 days after stretch ect". Im not the only one whos tried and failed numerous times. *edit. Just so were clear, im talking about the "defoliation for increased yields method" pulling a fan here and there is not the same lol

 

[outlier]

If a plant doesn't need a leaf she will discarded herself. So tired of this subject. Smh. Thats why u hear them later... HELP MY PLANT IS DYING!!! HELLPPPPP WHATS GOING ON WITH MY PLANTS?? SO TIRED OF THAT

lol...

Sorry to jack the thread. I've been removing the dead leaves that fall off the plants (wk 6 flower). I have accidentally knocked a few yellowing fan leaves off here and there. It seems you only need to brush them and they'll fall off.

Is this ok? Should I be more careful? I'm not rough by any means but I will pick out any dead leaves that have fallen off and are stuck in buds, branches, etc... basically anything that has detached, but has not fallen to the ground/pot. Only because I'm OCD about cleanliness. I vac my tent out weekly

 

[70's natureboy]

I think the defoliating crowd are indica growers. Indicas will grow so dense the sun never reaches the inside. I can see trimming some big fans because there are so friggin many more left to make sugar. With sativas it is totally unnecessary. That's why it's s a touchy subject. Sativa growers thing you're batshit crazy, and indica growers see the need for thinning and are pretty confident it does no harm. I am pretty confident it does no harm to bushy indicas too.

 

[whitebb2727]

No need to remove leaves. If for what ever reason a plant doesn't need a leaf like lack of light, it will shed it.

I like dense foliage. It has shed some lowers due to lack of light penetration.

 

[SPLFreak808]

No need to remove leaves. If for what ever reason a plant doesn't need a leaf like lack of light, it will shed it.

I like dense foliage. It has shed some lowers due to lack of light penetration.
View attachment 3568816

Man i know you've got your t5's down but those bitches would explode under a thouie! I gotta admit though, straight skills under those tubes lol

 

[whitebb2727]

Man i know you've got your t5's down but those bitches would explode under a thouie! I gotta admit though, straight skills under those tubes lol

Its only a 2x4. Thought about doing the same in a 4x4 and flowering with a 1000.

I got my mind set on going diy cob.

Thank you.

 

[saiyaneye]

Defoliation is perfect for folks that have a psychological need to fuck with their plants as much as possible. To each their own.

I kind of would have to agree with you. I always feel like i want to do something with my plants. It may be something to do with me being OCD and ADHD. Peaceful and enjoyable

BTW, topping, fiming and supercropping are training plants taking advantage of a thing called apical dominance, look it up. defoliating is not the same thing.

Thank you for telling me about Apical Dominance, I love learning new things.

With Topping, FIM, and SuperCropping are we manipulating the Apical Dominance phenomenon? Yes? What I am saying is; by cutting the top off your plant will allow the other nodes to develop quickly, while the other part of the plant comes back from shock. It will then heal, becoming the dominant growth area again; correct? So, with that being said, you are manipulating the Apical Dominance with Topping, FIM, and SuperCropping.

When you remove ALL the large leaves from the main stem, it seems like the plant takes about two weeks to come out of shock, but when it does, your plant's nodes sky rocket, becoming normal sized leaves in like a month. From what I learned, is that it is almost better to do it all at once, instead of shocking the plant little by little. What I am getting at, yes this may seem counter productive to some, but when you combine advanced LST, especially when combining it with MainLining (Horizonal Growth).

I think it really just depends on what you are trying to do with your plants.

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It's all personal opinion and preference, the plant's yield may even be effected by defoliation; negative or positive. No tests that any of us know of have confirmed this.

I am strongly AGAINST defoliation during flowering. I will agree that stress needs to be down to a bare minimum during flowering because the plant can turn hermie. We all know this. However, I am still sold on the need for defoliation, you need to wait for vigorous growth to re-establish though before you switch to flowering. It may seem like a flawed theory, but how come when you defoliate, you have way better established lower node development. More light. It allows more light to shine in to the parts of your plants. Plants are more or less meant to be grown outdoors, not meant for artificial lighting. There is a lot more readily available light produced by the sun than what MOST of us can replicate indoors with a 400w or 600w HPS.