If Bernie Sanders is for Peace...why did he....

see4

see4

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law governing the right of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

  1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
  2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
  3. sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of Section 349(a)(5), U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.
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MoDrama and facts don't get along.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
No, you don't need permission to renounce your citizenship. You need a background check, for obvious reasons. You can't commit a crime then renounce your citizenship.
$20,000? Where did you come up with that number? Stop making shit up.

There are 18 countries and several sovereign states that have no visa requirements. Most do, however if you renounce your US citizenship, you are considered stateless and can have the opportunity to seek asylum in many countries. But like the United States, most countries are wary of allowing completely unknown individuals into their country, rightfully so.

So, yea, I'm right. But nice attempt at flinging fecal matter.

Here, allow me to provide you with reading material: http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
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Yep, you need citizenship in another country dummy, or you can just sit your ass in some limbo state unable to leave the border station/airport for the rest of your life. Woops.

To gain CITIZENSHIP in most countries will require you to own real estate and have lived there for some period of time. If you think real estate is free and a year or more abroad is free then you must be delusional and in need of psychological treatment.

"Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government."

Dumb dumb dumb, really dumb.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Yep, you need citizenship in another country dummy, or you can just sit your ass in some limbo state unable to leave the border station/airport for the rest of your life. Woops.

To gain CITIZENSHIP in most countries will require you to own real estate and have lived there for some period of time. If you think real estate is free and a year or more abroad is free then you must be delusional and in need of psychological treatment.

"Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government."

Dumb dumb dumb, really dumb.
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We aren't debating other countries, moron. Your poor defense of Rob, who is far moar capable than you to defend a position, shows us that you clearly lack any intelligent insight to this discussion. You are here merely to try and troll your way through. Unfortunately for you, facts are on my side, bitch.

Again, and let me repeats this for the third time, so it's clear for you. You are free to renounce your US citizenship at any time, nobody is stopping you. And neither you nor Rob have even come close to contradicting that statement.

Fact 1: You are free to renounce your citizenship at any time. And nobody is stopping you.
Fact 2: It does not cost $20,000 to do so. You completely made that up. You are a liar.
Fact 3: The debate is whether or not people are free to renounce their citizenship and subsequently freely leave the US soil.

You have not disproved any of these facts. You lose. You're my bitch, now go make me a sandwich.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
More than 10 million. Not all of them live in limbo land.
http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c155.html

And BTW Andrew, STFU.
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You are not even debating the premise of the argument. That entire article is talking about refugees. People who had no choice but to leave, or likely die.

We are talking about folks who cry about their country and want to leave on their own recognizance, or free will. We are debating whether people are free to renounce their citizenship freely. Rob contends they cannot. And your dumb ass came along and agreed with him, stating that it would cost more than $20,000 to do so. Which is a complete fabrication. You are a liar. And you are dumb as shit.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You're a fucking moron dude.

You are not even debating the premise of the argument. That entire article is talking about refugees. People who had no choice but to leave, or likely die.

We are talking about folks who cry about their country and want to leave on their own recognizance, or free will. We are debating whether people are free to renounce their citizenship freely. Rob contends they cannot. And your dumb ass came along and agreed with him, stating that it would cost more than $20,000 to do so. Which is a complete fabrication. You are a liar. And you are dumb as shit.
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Go live in another country for a year or more and buy some land there, let me know if its free. Its not like you walk into a consulate and renounce, it takes YEARS for all the paperwork to be properly done, and then for several interviews to be scheduled, then MAYBE they will let you renounce, its up to the government if they will allow it, its not up to you. All that traveling isn't free, oh wait, in your delusional world everything is free, land, food, travel.
The Government fee alone is $2350.

Idiot, it's you.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Go live in another country for a year or more and buy some land there, let me know if its free. Its not like you walk into a consulate and renounce, it takes YEARS for all the paperwork to be properly done, and then for several interviews to be scheduled, then MAYBE they will let you renounce, its up to the government if they will allow it, its not up to you. All that traveling isn't free, oh wait, in your delusional world everything is free, land, food, travel.
The Government fee alone is $2350.

Idiot, it's you.
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can you tell us more about these 10 million people who are right now unable to leave the border station/airport for the rest of their lives?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Still think its free?
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you are confused. do less meth.

i just want to know more about your claim that there are these 10 million people who are right now unable to leave the border station/airport for the rest of their lives.

i am concerned about these people. where are they? how can i help them?
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Go live in another country for a year or more and buy some land there, let me know if its free. Its not like you walk into a consulate and renounce, it takes YEARS for all the paperwork to be properly done, and then for several interviews to be scheduled, then MAYBE they will let you renounce, its up to the government if they will allow it, its not up to you. All that traveling isn't free, oh wait, in your delusional world everything is free, land, food, travel.
The Government fee alone is $2350.

Idiot, it's you.
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I have lived in another country for almost a year. I did start the process of obtaining citizenship in that country. I stopped the process because I no longer wanted to live there. It wasn't very difficult. BUT, that is beside the point you thick headed dipshit.

Stop trying to change the playing field, that shit ain't working dumb dumb.

You have still yet to prove that people are not free to renounce their citizenship.

What government fee are you referring to? Are you talking about renouncing citizenship? Please provide the a link that shows this fee. EDIT: I found the information: according to one site, it is $2350, as you stated in your last comment. Not the $20,000 you mentioned earlier. But still 4 times more than it was before. -- But I suppose you want things for free huh? Typical, hate the government, but want free shit from them.
No, you are wrong, it does not take years to renounce your citizenship, again, you are making shit up and you're a liar.

You are so fucking dense it's almost comical.

I will repeat it again. You are free to renounce your citizenship, nobody is stopping you from doing so.
Rob's, now your, contention is that we are NOT free to renounce our citizenship. You have not provided evidence to that statement. You lose. You are not good at life. You're my bitch, now go make me a sandwich.
 
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see4

see4

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you are confused. do less meth.

i just want to know more about your claim that there are these 10 million people who are right now unable to leave the border station/airport for the rest of their lives.

i am concerned about these people. where are they? how can i help them?
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They are at "the" consulate, all renouncing their citizenships with their $20 thousand dollarz.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Still think its free?
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Geezus you are dumb.

Question: Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?
Your Answer: It costs moneyz!! ZOMG!!
Question: Uhh, that's not what I asked you. Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?
Your Answer: You idiot! But the 10 million peoples who has the stateless!! ZOMG!! Idiot!!
Question: Uhh, you're not good at this, let's try again. Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?

Can you answer the question?
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
Geezus you are dumb.

Question: Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?
Your Answer: It costs moneyz!! ZOMG!!
Question: Uhh, that's not what I asked you. Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?
Your Answer: You idiot! But the 10 million peoples who has the stateless!! ZOMG!! Idiot!!
Question: Uhh, you're not good at this, let's try again. Who is stopping you from renouncing your citizenship?

Can you answer the question?
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Your question has already been correctly answered multiple times, you must not actually read people's responses, unable to see through the rage that builds up in you from being wrong all the time.

Now, as I have already told you multiple times, the decision to renounce is yours, but the permission comes from the US government. If they say no, then you don't get to renounce. Period.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Your question has already been correctly answered multiple times, you must not actually read people's responses, unable to see through the rage that builds up in you from being wrong all the time.

Now, as I have already told you multiple times, the decision to renounce is yours, but the permission comes from the US government. If they say no, then you don't get to renounce. Period.
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No. As long as you are not a criminal, your renunciation is not a request. You, and meaning of words don't get along. Sorry kid.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
This notion of needing permission from the government to do anything in life that's been cemented in the libertarians mind is fabricated out of ignorance. It's from an already subservient mindset. You know what I would do if I got sick of the laws society says I have to follow to be a part of it? Decide which is more important, access to the luxuries society provides while my own personal beliefs about said society takes a backseat or my own personal moral/political/ethical, etc. convictions while I try to do the lone wolf thing outside of society.

I'm afraid you don't get to do whatever it is you want to do (including things that infringe upon others rights) while living amongst other members of said society. You don't get to open a public business and exclude certain citizens based on arbitrary reasons, and you don't get to teach your religion in public schools paid for by the collective, for example, and if you have any problems with that, there's nothing stopping you from picking up shop and moving to someplace you find more suitable for your own personal needs as every generation does.

Renunciation of U.S. Nationality

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law governing the right of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

  1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
  2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
  3. sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of Section 349(a)(5), U.S. citizens cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

a person seeking to renounce U.S. citizenship must renounce all the rights and privileges associated with such citizenships. In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998 ),the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because he wanted to retain the right to live in the United States while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if not stateless, former U.S. citizens would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). Renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware of the fact that renunciation of U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship does not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS

Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent. Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1483), and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action. If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact:


Regular Mail
U.S. Department of State
CA/OCS/L
SA-17, 10th Floor
Washington, D.C. 20522-1710
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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you left out the fact that i was asking you what was the least harmful way to let a person know they weren't welcome on another persons property BASED ON RACE.

then you said it was "polite and reasonable" to hang a sign disinviting people of certain races.

i do not think that is polite and reasonable, but your fellow klan buddies probably do.

also, you are a pedophile.
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Here let me help you with your inability to differentiate between the act of giving notification of a rule and the content of the rule itself...



The basis of why a person doesn't want to interact with me, might be interesting, in many cases I could even think it is absurd, but it doesn't add to or lessen the fact that THEY, NOT ME, own the property in question.

I don't think racism is polite or reasonable, I think it is absurd. I DO think respecting another persons wishes with how they wish to use THEIR property is polite and reasonable.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
No. As long as you are not a criminal, your renunciation is not a request. You, and meaning of words don't get along. Sorry kid.
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Part of the equation you appear to never have contemplated ....You don't really have any possibility of declining to ANNOUNCE your citizenship, that "choice" is made for you ,whether you agree or not.


 
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londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Here let me help you with your inability to differentiate between the act of giving notification of a rule and the content of the rule itself...



The basis of why a person doesn't want to interact with me, might be interesting, in many cases I could even think it is absurd, but it doesn't add to or lessen the fact that THEY, NOT ME, own the property in question.

I don't think racism is polite or reasonable, I think it is absurd. I DO think respecting another persons wishes with how they wish to use THEIR property is polite and reasonable.
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Depends on if that property is open to the public or deemed as private.
Also how did one obtain said property ?
 
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