The bad seed thread.

LamontCranston

Well-Known Member
Shiatsu Kush by BC Bud Depot was pretty bad. 5/7 seeds sprouted (I kept 5 for back up), the other 2 were deformed. Out of the 5 that lived, I got 1 male, 3 hermies, and 1 female. I do really like my female, great painkilling properties. Seeds were a pain though.
 

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Your opinion.

My opinion: Problem one is that growers, especially new growers, need to know that there are breeders who don't know how to produce quality seeds or put bad seed on the market even when they know they failed. There should rarely or never be any problems with a seed produced and stored properly. Most agricultural seed companies guarantee 95%+ successful germination on their seed. The key word being successful.. which means the plant sprouts and grows with no assistance.

Problem two is how to salvage something with the bad seeds produced by these breeders. In my past work every single seed like this has died. When left to their own fate, 100% death rate. The plant is deformed and it stays stuck shut until it dies. I would estimate that I have had 30 seeds die this way before I figured out it wasn't my fault.

Once I started studying the dead seeds after they had died I could see what was happening and why they were dying. By helping them along I have been able to salvage 90% of bad seeds that actually germinate. Went from 100% death to 10% death. So surgery isn't the problem, bad seed is the problem.

I also popped 10 Mandala Ganesh and every single one was able to sprout and grow with no assistance. I didn't touch them.
No dude.. It is your fault..lol.. Idk how to help you through denial but that is a ridiculous amount of seeds to lose, a horrible germ rate! the reality is the rest of us are doing just fine soooo..
 

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Anyway, if it germs, it WILL grow. Without doing anything special.. If you're having a problem getting seedlings to live but the beans pop, the seeds are not "bad seeds" in fact the grower is "bad grower" ...lol sorry not trying to give you a hard time but I mean really?? -_-
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Here we go... to the experts I offer the following images with the request that you explain what I did wrong. Please give an answer based on your own experiences with seed coats not your experience as someone who is perfect and never has problems or never makes a mistake.

Last night, almost 72 hours to the exact minute from sowing.
20160109_152748.jpg

This morning, 8 hours later from the above photo. The seed coat is very hard and in my experiences will not open any further.
20160110_073713.jpg
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Damping off and improper popping are more likely your problem

If the seeds did not "crush or collapse" between your fingers with light to medium pressure. They should be viable.
I agree.

I would say surgery had more to do with it.

I've planted seeds like that. They might not have the same vigour that a more mature seed has but it will grow.

If it was struggling the worst thing to do is poke at it. That weakens it more.

Op, next time a hull is stuck use a dropper and put a drop of water on it a few times and it will soften and come off.
 
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whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Here we go... to the experts I offer the following images with the request that you explain what I did wrong. Please give an answer based on your own experiences with seed coats not your experience as someone who is perfect and never has problems or never makes a mistake.

Last night, almost 72 hours to the exact minute from sowing.
View attachment 3582804

This morning, 8 hours later from the above photo. The seed coat is very hard and in my experiences will not open any further.
View attachment 3582805
Also try putting the point of the seed up. The tap root makes a u turn and as it comes out of the seed the dirt forces the seed open. Plant just a little deeper. 1/2 inch deep.
With a green seed that might have a little less energy proper placement can help. The slow pull of the soil is better than forcing the shell.

download.jpg
 
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kermit2692

Well-Known Member
Just had a thought, this may help you.. It seems you're having trouble with the shells staying on and also you have a tenancy to not just let it go, you're playing with em lol.. So my guess is you're germing straight in soil which is fine of course HOWEVER it may help you to use the paper towel method as this gets the seed coat niiiice and wet. I bet that will almost completely get rid of the problem, I use this method and have only had two seeds hold the husk ever!! If you already do paper towel disregard but if not I bet giving it a try will get rid of that problem
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the replies everyone. I appreciate the tips and the willingness to help out but I'll write it again... I have been starting seeds indoors for 15 years. I regret even mentioning removing the seed coat because it has led this thread more into a discussion about how I handle the seeds.

I've successfully started and brought to maturity many different types of seeds by following breeder's instructions. Some of the most difficult seeds to start are wild-flowers. Many of these seeds are very small, require a period of freezing or multiple cold/thaw cycles and then 4 weeks or more to germinate with a careful eye to temperatures and moisture. I've done all of that with success and have enough skills to know that it isn't that difficult with cannabis.

It's my opinion, based on 15 years of experience starting seeds from at least 50 different types of plants, that properly grown, harvested, and stored cannabis seeds need no help... none. They don't need to be soaked, paper towelled, scarified, or babied along for a week or two. I've seen what a properly-handled cannabis seed can do and the high level of vigor they possess. I've also seen that even when I use more advanced seed-starting methods many cannabis seeds still under-perform and it's because they are not mature. Healthy seeds have no trouble popping that shell because the cotyledons are big enough and when they swell up the coat splits in half. Healthy seeds don't need help, the leaves do it on their own.

My main goal with this discussion is to lift up the idea that all of the anguish and rituals with cannabis seed starting are not necessary if they are produced properly. It only becomes an issue with bad seeds. And I feel like there is a quite a bit of low quality seed out there. Apparently this idea doesn't sit well with people, not sure why, but please stop making this about my growing skills. I know enough about seeds, seed starting, and growing to make a reasoned judgement on this.

It is frustrating to know what is possible but then consistently receive small, under-developed seeds. The bigger issue is that many of us pay $6 for a bad seed that isn't quality and then get shamed into believing we screwed it up rather then expecting something more. Kind of like this thread.
 
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kermit2692

Well-Known Member
This changes everything..lol

The small tan under developed beans are definitely immature seed and that is not acceptable. If that's your main concern and not simply the issue of the shell hanging on then of course it's the seed that's the issue. So you're wanting to start a thread of who is putting out small possibly under developed seed? People should also mention how the plant came out of they ran it successfully.
 

Greedy-Green

Active Member
Have had problems with auto seeds candy kush, despite being told by many that they had grown huge autos of this strain from the same breeder,
I brought 5 for 30 pound and 2 germinated within a week one of which was in a right state after popping through soil and other looked healthy but stayed in seedling stage for about 2weeks (by this point autoseeds claim they should be starting to preflower at least) 2seeds did not germ in cup of water or paper towels.
Long story short one plant made it and was grown with a northern lights auto batch which had sprouted same day, I yeilded 42g from the northern lights and just under 14g from the candy kush,
I know that this could have been growers fault but honestly I have Allways used same germ method and have only lost 2 or 3 seeds in the past few years except for the candy kush,
Has anyone else experienced problems with autoseeds company?
Or did I just get a bad batch??
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
So you're wanting to start a thread of who is putting out small possibly under developed seed? People should also mention how the plant came out of they ran it successfully.
Yes! Thank-you.

It's not even really about who although that may be helpful, it's mainly about getting the truth about seeds out there for new growers so they don't quit after working with bad seeds. Because, as you have posted above, there are many things we can do to successfully grow from bad seeds.

It would also be great to hear about sources for big, fat, dark brown seeds because I need a better source.
 

yesum

Well-Known Member
I recently lost 9 of 10 seeds from 2 different strains, both Cannabiogen. The Chill-OM from Mandala was about 8 of ten for germing and growing. A few freebies I ran were 100% as I recall. They all got the same treatment

I too take the shell off if it looks stuck. I do not think that has anything to do with anything. Some of the seeds that did pop, would not put out a real tail. Short with no hairs coming out of it. I got one of those to grow but it took forever and they tend to not produce much.
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
Seedsavers.org is a good one for heirloom seeds.

Link for free catalog. I grew some tomatoes from them. 3-4 varieties. I'm ordering everything from them this year.

http://www.seedsavers.org/catalog?ck=YSBFkxMlAmlezzMd&cktime=140563
thanks, i'll check them out whitebb.. i've ordered a few things from baker creek and had good results.. last year i made the mistake of not starting from seed, and was so pissed at how much i ended up paying for starts.. i'm definitely going the seed route next year.., will, this spring..
 

GranolaCornhola

Well-Known Member
I too had a problem with krystalica seeds germing, the mandala#1's all cracked without any issues. I believe the krystalica strain is like the ugly stepchild in the mandala lineup. Also, for the guy that told you to use the moist paper towel method, ironially mandala specifically states not to use that method with their seeds, and to plant directly to soil.

If you want to get shitty seeds with horrid germ rates try buying some overpriced soma gear, you'll get plenty of practice as a botanical surgeon. When the seedcoat gets stuck, what works for me is I tilt the pot by placing something under one side, then place just one drop of water on the seed. The surface tension keeps the droplet on the seed and it doesn't run off. It keeps it hydrated witout having to constantly water it and soaking the soil. Obviously the constant moisture softens the inner membrane and the cotyledons can break free. Good luck.
 
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