EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

[Queece]

A demagogue is a politician that appeals to a constituency using any other means than logos. Branding aside, Donald Trump is classically logical and is studied in the field. Bernie Sanders gets people wound up because they feel cheated by the rich, an ethos and a value judgement that will guide logical policy no where.

I think the world's financial theater will be in very deep water by November though. We're seeing some pretty structural dips shaping up here in January, I can't imagine oil and commodities will even start recovering before the election.

 

[NLXSK1]

A demagogue is a politician that appeals to a constituency using any other means than logos. Branding aside, Donald Trump is classically logical and is studied in the field. Bernie Sanders gets people wound up because they feel cheated by the rich, an ethos and a value judgement that will guide logical policy no where.

I think the world's financial theater will be in very deep water by November though. We're seeing some pretty structural dips shaping up here in January, I can't imagine oil and commodities will even start recovering before the election.

Oil bounced today which is not really a surprise since it is below production costs already. With the Iranians dumping oil into the market the prices could stay low for a significant period of time. This is going to hurt the energy sector, including fracking which will lead to an increase in unemployment.

The real fundamental question in my mind is how bad is the situation in China in reality. They are the driving force for the slow down in economics around the world. The USA has been too weak for a decade now and still influences things but not as much as previously.

So, low gas prices for a while, yay but otherwise things are not looking that great.

 

[Queece]

Oil bounced today which is not really a surprise since it is below production costs already. With the Iranians dumping oil into the market the prices could stay low for a significant period of time. This is going to hurt the energy sector, including fracking which will lead to an increase in unemployment.

The real fundamental question in my mind is how bad is the situation in China in reality. They are the driving force for the slow down in economics around the world. The USA has been too weak for a decade now and still influences things but not as much as previously.

So, low gas prices for a while, yay but otherwise things are not looking that great.

Dude China is in major trouble. They have been inflating their economy artificially to devalue the yuan for years. This basically priced labor out of the market worldwide and boosted them into an export-based trade surplus. This devaluation of the yuan created massive wealth and income gaps as the savings of the country were destroyed for industry's sake. Their margins are being called currently, they've been stopping all trades and have almost depleted their impressive 10 trillion in currency reserves as plunge protection. All this week. There isn't just a crash in oil prices, it's a crash in consumer spending that affects every commodity. China's not producing, and their poison toothpaste economy doesn't hold water outside of interest-free money lending. And their country is rapidly becoming a biologically hazardous desert.

The crash is coming in the next few months. Get ready for interest rates to force themselves back up. Hope you don't have a pension.

 

[Fogdog]

A demagogue is a politician that appeals to a constituency using any other means than logos. Branding aside, Donald Trump is classically logical and is studied in the field. Bernie Sanders gets people wound up because they feel cheated by the rich, an ethos and a value judgement that will guide logical policy no where.

I think the world's financial theater will be in very deep water by November though. We're seeing some pretty structural dips shaping up here in January, I can't imagine oil and commodities will even start recovering before the election.

Dude, you can make up your own definitions if you like, I don't care. I prefer to use a language that others can understand. Using standard definitions that are easily available, Trump is a demagogue and Sanders is not. The Sanders you described best fits a populist rather than a demagogue. Maybe reformist is a better description.

Maybe this will help: https://ourfuture.org/20150820/sanders-and-trump-the-populist-and-the-demagogue

I do agree that there is a good chance of recession this year. Politicians on either side of the aisle will be blaming the other side. The election may swing one way or the other depending on who is seen to take the blame. If the recession hits this summer or fall, having a Democrat as the sitting president will definitely hurt the Democratic nominee. I don't know how the president of the US could have prevented a stagnating economy in China or the oil glut but if you are going to take the praise when things go well, then you've got to take the blame when they don't.

 

[NLXSK1]

Dude China is in major trouble. They have been inflating their economy artificially to devalue the yuan for years. This basically priced labor out of the market worldwide and boosted them into an export-based trade surplus. This devaluation of the yuan created massive wealth and income gaps as the savings of the country were destroyed for industry's sake. Their margins are being called currently, they've been stopping all trades and have almost depleted their impressive 10 trillion in currency reserves as plunge protection. All this week. There isn't just a crash in oil prices, it's a crash in consumer spending that affects every commodity. China's not producing, and their poison toothpaste economy doesn't hold water outside of interest-free money lending. And their country is rapidly becoming a biologically hazardous desert.

The crash is coming in the next few months. Get ready for interest rates to force themselves back up. Hope you don't have a pension.

LOL!!! I am starting a new business that will depend on real estate sales primarily. If things are shitty I will just have to work harder.

 

[NLXSK1]

Dude, you can make up your own definitions if you like, I don't care. I prefer to use a language that others can understand. Using standard definitions that are easily available, Trump is a demagogue and Sanders is not. The Sanders you described best fits a populist rather than a demagogue. Maybe reformist is a better description.

Maybe this will help: https://ourfuture.org/20150820/sanders-and-trump-the-populist-and-the-demagogue

I do agree that there is a good chance of recession this year. Politicians on either side of the aisle will be blaming the other side. The election may swing one way or the other depending on who is seen to take the blame. If the recession hits this summer or fall, having a Democrat as the sitting president will definitely hurt the Democratic nominee. I don't know how the president of the US could have prevented a stagnating economy in China or the oil glut but if you are going to take the praise when things go well, then you've got to take the blame when they don't.

He could have prevented the oil glut by not removing the Iranian sanctions...

 

[Queece]

LOL!!! I am starting a new business that will depend on real estate sales primarily. If things are shitty I will just have to work harder.

Well you'll be sitting pretty for a few months at least. There will be real-estate bubbles cropping up all over Europe, New Zealand, Australia, and the Pacific Northwest United States, and parts of South America. This already happened in Canada, that's why it's trending toward $0.60 to the dollar. Capital flight out of China and all over the world will try to snap up liquid assets like real estate, causing massive inflationary spikes in the pricing index and then ultimately the speculative bubble collapses and everyone loses their property values and all collateral on newly issued loans. Go to Toronto, all of the luxury apartment buildings pay people to turn lights on to make it look like people live there. It's all property speculation while there's a massive homelessness problem on the streets.

So yeah, get ready for things to look like they are going really well for you in your real-estate venture, and then be utterly disappointed when the collapse of fiat value takes you under with the rest of us. Or buy bitcoin and hope you can buy some armor made out of dirt bike parts to protect your powerbars from diesel punks and raiders.

 

[Queece]

And no one could have prevented the oil glut, we are just moving toward a post-oil economic model. There has always been too much oil, some people were too eager to pump last summer and accidentally reset the price to a level where marginal producers became the price discoverers. The cheapest oil being extracted now sets the price, whereas the most expensive used to. It's called reemergence of the mean. Which is a structural trend, meaning that the cyclical trending highs and lows are now structural lows. It's price discovery happening in real time, that's why all commodities are crashing right now. It's a credit crash, an artificial price discovery mechanism of speculation and derivatives underwriting the economy crash. No one is at fault, you just can't keep making money spinning the wheel with bets on black AND red.

 

[NLXSK1]

I will not be buying and selling real estate, I inspect real estate for a living. Typically that is done at the sale of a property. I was a home inspector through 2008 - 2010 when 80% or more of the homes I inspected were abandoned foreclosures, it sucked!!

As long as real estate keeps selling I can make a profit!!

 

[Queece]

I will not be buying and selling real estate, I inspect real estate for a living. Typically that is done at the sale of a property. I was a home inspector through 2008 - 2010 when 80% or more of the homes I inspected were abandoned foreclosures, it sucked!!

As long as real estate keeps selling I can make a profit!!

Until you go back to inspecting 100% foreclosures, having to fight off hives of radioactive communist squatters daily. Real pieces of shit that are trying to live in the bank's house. The nerve.

 

[ttystikk]

For some reason, being a populist has a bad connotation. So, OK, reformist. What is that?

My own thoughts on the connotation of populism run more towards the lowbrow sophistry of those like Donald the Chump. Hence, not a great description of someone who's agenda doesn't merely seek to gain favor with the mob, but actually make tough, even unpopular decisions to improve the situation of the vast majority of Americans.

Hugo Chavez was a socialist, and a populist. There's a great deal of daylight between him and Mr Sanders in terms of policy and outlook.

 

[ttystikk]

He could have prevented the oil glut by not removing the Iranian sanctions...

Wildly untrue. All of OPEC has been pumping oil like mad, even as the global economy cratered and demand for petrochemicals dropped like a stone. Iran's contribution is a drop in that bucket and they aren't likely to want to stir up trouble in the Middle East as much as in the past due to their recent readmission to global trading markets.

 

[NLXSK1]

Wildly untrue. All of OPEC has been pumping oil like mad, even as the global economy cratered and demand for petrochemicals dropped like a stone. Iran's contribution is a drop in that bucket and they aren't likely to want to stir up trouble in the Middle East as much as in the past due to their recent readmission to global trading markets.

They are not likely to want to stir up trouble? ROFLMFAO!!! They have tankers piled up with excess oil surplus that they are going to immediately dump. You are telling me that adding oil to a market that is already flooded will not affect the price?

 

[Fogdog]

My own thoughts on the connotation of populism run more towards the lowbrow sophistry of those like Donald the Chump. Hence, not a great description of someone who's agenda doesn't merely seek to gain favor with the mob, but actually make tough, even unpopular decisions to improve the situation of the vast majority of Americans.

Hugo Chavez was a socialist, and a populist. There's a great deal of daylight between him and Mr Sanders in terms of policy and outlook.

not disagreeing with you, but I regard Hugo Chavez as a man who did what he thought right for his country and not what was best for the US. The title of populist shouldn't taint Sanders in any way. Populism during the turn of the last century allied with the labor movement to destroy Standard Oil, the railroad cartels and the creation of industrial control of this economy. It was a good thing. Somehow it got a bad name. I don't understand why, however.

 

[Fogdog]

I will not be buying and selling real estate, I inspect real estate for a living. Typically that is done at the sale of a property. I was a home inspector through 2008 - 2010 when 80% or more of the homes I inspected were abandoned foreclosures, it sucked!!

As long as real estate keeps selling I can make a profit!!

Best of luck for your business, dude. The business of home inspections like others has its ups and downs but an honest appraiser should always be in demand.

 

[Corso312]

not disagreeing with you, but I regard Hugo Chavez as a man who did what he thought right for his country and not what was best for the US. The title of populist shouldn't taint Sanders in any way. Populism during the turn of the last century allied with the labor movement to destroy Standard Oil, the railroad cartels and the creation of industrial control of this economy. It was a good thing. Somehow it got a bad name. I don't understand why, however.

I know very little about Hugo, other than he told the U.S. to get fucked( points for that) but Venezuela is one of the poorest, crime ridden countries in the world ..with huge oil reserves.. Seems the people could have prospered better under him if he was truly a socialist.

 

[ttystikk]

not disagreeing with you, but I regard Hugo Chavez as a man who did what he thought right for his country and not what was best for the US. The title of populist shouldn't taint Sanders in any way. Populism during the turn of the last century allied with the labor movement to destroy Standard Oil, the railroad cartels and the creation of industrial control of this economy. It was a good thing. Somehow it got a bad name. I don't understand why, however.

You may have just answered your own question; populism was successful! Business interests would hate that, so of course it has to get smeared in the right wing wind machine.

Chavez hurt a lot of his people, including those he thought he was helping.

 

[ttystikk]

I know very little about Hugo, other than he told the U.S. to get fucked( points for that) but Venezuela is one of the poorest, crime ridden countries in the world ..with huge oil reserves.. Seems the people could have prospered better under him if he was truly a socialist.

Quite so- and very much the point I was trying to make, myself.

 

[Fogdog]

Until you go back to inspecting 100% foreclosures, having to fight off hives of radioactive communist squatters daily. Real pieces of shit that are trying to live in the bank's house. The nerve.

haters gonna hate. tamp it down dude

You may have just answered your own question; populism was successful! Business interests would hate that, so of course it has to get smeared in the right wing wind machine.

Chavez hurt a lot of his people, including those he thought he was helping.

Admit that I don't know enough about Hugo Chavez. He probably was a total dick. I just listened to the rhetoric about him and remembered the rhetoric about another Chavez, Cesar of the United Farm Worker's Union. They vilified Cesar in the press too. Just saying that Hugo Chavez was a political figure and what we think of him may be different from who he was.

 

[ttystikk]

haters gonna hate. tamp it down dude

Admit that I don't know enough about Hugo Chavez. He probably was a total dick. I just listened to the rhetoric about him and remembered the rhetoric about another Chavez, Cesar of the United Farm Worker's Union. They vilified Cesar in the press too. Just saying that Hugo Chavez was a political figure and what we think of him may be different from who he was.

The infamous Ludlow massacre happened right here in Colorado, in Pueblo. NEVER hear about that anymore!