Debating on LED or HPS

[Corso312]

What led light might that be?

Its a light my buddy built, its vero cobs not the cree that I'm going to use but its outstanding.

 

[blueylol]

Have you looked at BML's spydr LED's??

i have, if i had the cash id have one of each monster unit, blackdog, 4000 dollars worth of cxb's, the solar flare, an apache tech 660, more a51's.

realistically i think they all work (nutrients differ slightly) but it just comes down to efficiency these days. apparently the new a51's might come out at 70% which is ground breaking imo for retail.

 

[Yodaweed]

i have, if i had the cash id have one of each monster unit, blackdog, 4000 dollars worth of cxb's, the solar flare, an apache tech 660, more a51's.

realistically i think they all work (nutrients differ slightly) but it just comes down to efficiency these days. apparently the new a51's might come out at 70% which is ground breaking imo for retail.

Does a51 even still make lights? Their website has said sold out for months...

 

[ttystikk]

i have, if i had the cash id have one of each monster unit, blackdog, 4000 dollars worth of cxb's, the solar flare, an apache tech 660, more a51's.

realistically i think they all work (nutrients differ slightly) but it just comes down to efficiency these days. apparently the new a51's might come out at 70% which is ground breaking imo for retail.

BULLSHIT, I'M CALLING BULLSHIT on a retail panel hitting 70% efficiency! GTFO!

 

[ttystikk]

Does a51 even still make lights? Their website has said sold out for months...

I'm sure @Eraserhead has the skinny?

 

[Eraserhead]

Just sold out of everything at the moment. There's new stuff on the way, couple weeks away.

I'm sure @Eraserhead has the skinny?

One of the new lights on the way is 64-65% efficient. Not 70%. 4x 3590 3500k CD @ 700mA is quite efficient. I did build a light, just for fun mostly, considering it for retail. It has 8x 3590 @ 350mA. That would be close to 70%, but the probability of actually going through with making a production model is slim.

BULLSHIT, I'M CALLING BULLSHIT on a retail panel hitting 70% efficiency! GTFO!

 

[ttystikk]

Just sold out of everything at the moment. There's new stuff on the way, couple weeks away.


One of the new lights on the way is 64-65% efficient. Not 70%. 4x 3590 3500k CD @ 700mA is quite efficient. I did build a light, just for fun mostly, considering it for retail. It has 8x 3590 @ 350mA. That would be close to 70%, but the probability of actually going through with making a production model is slim.

Understood, and I want to be clear that while I'm fully aware that a 70% efficient light is possible- was it @SupraSPL who built one?- I'm also aware that the market is not going to show any demand for a thousand dollar (retail) 200W fixture. Definitely something for the future as chip prices continue their downward spiral.

And, congrats on being sold out. Beats the shit out of tons of inventory you can't unload.

 

[Eraserhead]

The 8x 3590 lamp would be quite expensive, $10-/+ per watt retail. Some people would buy it, but I wouldn't expect it to sell in big numbers at all.

@SupraSPL have you ever done the math for the 3590 3500k CD @ 350mA?

Understood, and I want to be clear that while I'm fully aware that a 70% efficient light is possible- was it @SupraSPL who built one?- I'm also aware that the market is not going to show any demand for a thousand dollar (retail) 200W fixture. Definitely something for the future as chip prices continue their downward spiral.

And, congrats on being sold out. Beats the shit out of tons of inventory you can't unload.

 

[ttystikk]

The 8x 3590 lamp would be quite expensive, $10-/+ per watt retail. Some people would buy it, but I wouldn't expect it to sell in big numbers at all.

@SupraSPL have you ever done the math for the 3590 3500k CD @ 350mA?

Right. Until that price comes down by at least two thirds I wouldn't expect it to be a money maker.

Engineering is the art of knowing what's possible vs what's practical- and being able to design the latter.

 

[BOBBY_G]

Understood, and I want to be clear that while I'm fully aware that a 70% efficient light is possible- was it @SupraSPL who built one?- I'm also aware that the market is not going to show any demand for a thousand dollar (retail) 200W fixture. Definitely something for the future as chip prices continue their downward spiral.

And, congrats on being sold out. Beats the shit out of tons of inventory you can't unload.

i did the math. for a 900 par W/1500 total W garden, 1% of efficiency is worth $10/year in electricity

cost of cobs alone to build a 60% efficient 900 par W setup = $2000
cost of cobs alone to build a 65% efficient 900 par W setup = $3200
cost of cobs alone to build a 75% efficient 900 par W setup = <$9000

so 700 years to pay that efficiency back to go from 60->70, but only 120 years to payback the 60->65% eff.

low 60s is the sweetspot

 

[ttystikk]

i did the math. for a 900 par W/1500 total W garden, 1% of efficiency is worth $10/year in electricity

cost of cobs alone to build a 60% efficient 900 par W setup = $2000
cost of cobs alone to build a 65% efficient 900 par W setup = $3200
cost of cobs alone to build a 75% efficient 900 par W setup = <$9000

so 700 years to pay that efficiency back to go from 60->70, but only 120 years to payback the 60->65% eff.

low 60s is the sweetspot

There's potentially a big hole in that math, because unless your op is so small you don't need AC, you'll notice a big difference in climate control costs.

It's no secret in the industry that the only thing using more power in a commercial facility than the lighting (?!) Is the AC system trying to keep all those bulbs from cooking the place, Easy Bake oven style!

Consensus is growing around a savings of 40% on BOTH installed capacity and operating cost, which reduces the return on investment substantially, doesn't it?

Further, most growers are seeing big improvements in both grams per watt yielded and quality of product, so that's another large factor in favor of a shorter ROI.

Only the famously myopic cartoon character Mr Magoo would get stuck on lamp to lamp comparisons and miss all these additional benefits...

Really, high up front cost is the last remaining hurdle to commercial success and that's changing fast.

 

[frica]

Main benefit with LED for commercial growers is that you can replace 5000 watt of HPS with 5000 watt of LED and get an increase in yield which will boost profit much more than a lower electricity bill will ever do.

 

[ttystikk]

Main benefit with LED for commercial growers is that you can replace 5000 watt of HPS with 5000 watt of LED and get an increase in yield which will boost profit much more than a lower electricity bill will ever do.

I agree and clearly you and I were thinking the same thing, see my post above.

 

[sethimus]

i did the math. for a 900 par W/1500 total W garden, 1% of efficiency is worth $10/year in electricity

cost of cobs alone to build a 60% efficient 900 par W setup = $2000
cost of cobs alone to build a 65% efficient 900 par W setup = $3200
cost of cobs alone to build a 75% efficient 900 par W setup = <$9000

so 700 years to pay that efficiency back to go from 60->70, but only 120 years to payback the 60->65% eff.

low 60s is the sweetspot

*depends on kwh cost, here in germany we're slowly reaching the 0.30€ mark soon, at what cost did you calculate that?

 

[ttystikk]

*depends on kwh cost, here in germany we're slowly reaching the 0.30€ mark soon, at what cost did you calculate that?

Once all the energy is turned into 'waste heat', what do you do worth it? I use mine to keep my home nice and warm all winter, in Colorado. This helps to offset costs.

 

[BOBBY_G]

*depends on kwh cost, here in germany we're slowly reaching the 0.30€ mark soon, at what cost did you calculate that?

15 cents/kwh here

 

[BOBBY_G]

Once all the energy is turned into 'waste heat', what do you do worth it? I use mine to keep my home nice and warm all winter, in Colorado. This helps to offset costs.

likewise, which makes heat a non-issue to an extent, at least 8 mos a year.

i built in 10% removal to my formula (i.e it takes 100W of fans to remove 1000W of heat). a simplification but i works for my climat. gimme a kwh cost and a factor for heat removal (ie 10% as stated above). ill crunch it.

and im not comparing hps at 40% or whatever. im comparing cobs in the 60-70% range

 

[swagslayer420]

The 8x 3590 lamp would be quite expensive, $10-/+ per watt retail. Some people would buy it, but I wouldn't expect it to sell in big numbers at all.

I would buy a 70% efficient unit. Should do a one run of the fixture but make it dimmable 100-200w[/QUOTE]

 

[ttystikk]

I would buy a 70% efficient unit. Should do a one run of the fixture but make it dimmable 100-200w

[/QUOTE]

Would you spend two grand for one that used 200W?

 

[blueylol]

BULLSHIT, I'M CALLING BULLSHIT on a retail panel hitting 70% efficiency! GTFO!

ease up lol