This is gonna get interesting! Militia takes over Ore. federal building after protest.

Word is. Traffic stop, away from the park, shot fired. 2 injured. Med flight. Don't know who. Ammon Bundy arrested along with 3 others.

This is very preliminary. It's on huffington post. Often these preliminary details are wrong. FWIW
 
I got that they tried to slip away from the Teams that surrounded them, got caught, gunfight, 1 dead 1 wounded.

The birds can come back in the spring now.
 
OddBall1st said:
I got that they tried to slip away from the Teams that surrounded them, got caught, gunfight, 1 dead 1 wounded.

The birds can come back in the spring now.
Click to expand...

And I read that there was a vehicle stop while the protesters were traveling to a meeting. Shots fired, one dead one wounded. No word yet on who fired first.
 
budlover13 said:
Lol. It matters as to initiation of deadly force, imo. And yes, if one chooses to point a gun at a cop, they better fire first or they will be shot.
Click to expand...

I havent been paying much attention to this story. However, it seems like this was a dispute over use of government land and/or issues with a back burn. I dont trust the BLM or any other federal agency. But it seems like the cops were not real trigger happy on this issue given that it has been going on over a month.

So, the dumbasses get in a vehicle for whatever reason and attempt to drive somewhere. They are obviously being tracked so the cops perform a felony stop on the vehicle. I trust the cops for the most part to try to just do their job and go home at night. So, the cops stopped the car and had their weapons drawn and were demanding the people comply with their commands and that did not happen for some reason.

It is tragic but you cant go Rambo against the government and expect anything less...
 
NLXSK1 said:
I havent been paying much attention to this story. However, it seems like this was a dispute over use of government land and/or issues with a back burn. I dont trust the BLM or any other federal agency. But it seems like the cops were not real trigger happy on this issue given that it has been going on over a month.

So, the dumbasses get in a vehicle for whatever reason and attempt to drive somewhere. They are obviously being tracked so the cops perform a felony stop on the vehicle. I trust the cops for the most part to try to just do their job and go home at night. So, the cops stopped the car and had their weapons drawn and were demanding the people comply with their commands and that did not happen for some reason.

It is tragic but you cant go Rambo against the government and expect anything less...
Click to expand...

Been reading up on this and yeah. Looks like they were stopped by the FBI and State Troopers on their way to a community meeting then a gun battle broke out it isn't clear who shot first or what not.

Can't really say I'm happy about the outcome as much as I dislike them, but I guess we agree on something: point a gun at a cop expect to be shot (play stupid games win stupid prizes).
 
NLXSK1 said:
I havent been paying much attention to this story. However, it seems like this was a dispute over use of government land and/or issues with a back burn. I dont trust the BLM or any other federal agency. But it seems like the cops were not real trigger happy on this issue given that it has been going on over a month.

So, the dumbasses get in a vehicle for whatever reason and attempt to drive somewhere. They are obviously being tracked so the cops perform a felony stop on the vehicle. I trust the cops for the most part to try to just do their job and go home at night. So, the cops stopped the car and had their weapons drawn and were demanding the people comply with their commands and that did not happen for some reason.

It is tragic but you cant go Rambo against the government and expect anything less...
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. I haven't said much on this topic but you are right. The majority of these guys obviously didn't feel like giving their lives to further their cause (unlike other groups in our world that have proven that they ARE willing ). As a matter of fact, I would suspect that since the known hothead and most boisterous of the group was killed from what I have read so far, he likely engaged Leo by himself, without the support of the rest of the group. Another was wounded by an errant round. Maybe it was a prolonged firefight and the protesters were unprepared. Idk.

I bet that wasn't the group's plan. They knew that they wouldn't walk away from this without repercussions. MOST were willing to do time. They sparked an important discussion on land use and ownership. AND, intentionally or not, the conversation of how racial minorities are treatedby the police.

I'm happily surprised that we didn't witness another Waco or Ruby Ridge.

Btw, Rambo would've won AND grazed his cattle wherever he wanted lol. ;)
 
Btw, as to my point of initiation of deadly force, once fired upon one does not stop firing in self defense until the threat has ceased.

So, in my mind, it does matter who fired first.
 
It sounds like they killed a man with his hands in the air and he was cooperating. Then they shot him in the face with several witness's.



"I want the world to know how my father was murdered today," the post said. "His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are six witnesses to this evil."

One of those arrested, described only as a man, suffered non-life-threatening wounds and was treated at a hospital, law enforcement agencies said.
 
ChesusRice said:
They will all eventually get arrested.
They will all eventually be convicted.
They will all be felons.
And as such will lose their gun rights.
I wonder how much they will support gun laws they thought would keep guns from those "BAD" people then?
Click to expand...
.............
 
nitro harley said:
It sounds like they killed a man with his hands in the air and he was cooperating. Then they shot him in the face with several witness's.



"I want the world to know how my father was murdered today," the post said. "His hands were in the air and he was shot in the face by the American authorities. Ammon Bundy reported there are six witnesses to this evil."

One of those arrested, described only as a man, suffered non-life-threatening wounds and was treated at a hospital, law enforcement agencies said.
Click to expand...

Except the witnesses were all the ones involved in the dispute with the BLM... I have read some of the sites you link to and what I have read has sometimes been sketchy...
 
Ok, Now here it is...

The right to own a gun causes a deterrent to those who want to abridge our other rights. That is both the government and criminals. Deterrence is not something you can easily measure as it is what doesnt happen, not what does happen.

In regards to the government the 2nd amendment is a deterrent for them to not step over the line and abridge peoples rights. But not on a one to one issue. More of a general 'Oh Hell No' due to an illegal order such as 'Turn in all your guns'.... You are never going to win against the government in an armed conflict.

But this issue had nothing to do with gun ownership, it had to do with a bunch of people who decided to go against the law and are going to get punished for it. If they all would have gone home on Monday morning then several would have been arrested for trespassing and likely could have plead it down to a misdemeanor. Now Chesus is right, most are probably going to jail.
 
NLXSK1 said:
Except the witnesses were all the ones involved in the dispute with the BLM... I have read some of the sites you link to and what I have read has sometimes been sketchy...
Click to expand...

I am not going to speculate on what happened, but it sounds like a real "hands up don't shoot" may have taken place. We will hear more later on.
 
NLXSK1 said:
Except the witnesses were all the ones involved in the dispute with the BLM... I have read some of the sites you link to and what I have read has sometimes been sketchy...
Click to expand...

Right?

I wonder if the FBI was rolling film. Cant trust anyone without it,.
 
Corso312 said:
Dash cam should have it all. Neither side has any credibility IMO.
Click to expand...

LOL, you just beat me.

But seriously, if they weren't rolling film it makes me trust them less than the other side. No reason police, especially in this type of situation, shouldn't have video and audio going crazy at all times.
 
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