Doctors getting kickbacks from Lps?

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tiktak1297

Well-Known Member
So I hang around a few dispensaries in the Toronto area. Over the past 3 months I have heard the same story enough times to be alarmed. Patients going to their doctors to get their mmpr renewed are being questioned by their doctor as to why they aren't buying from their LP. Apparently the lps are sharing the patients purchase history with the doctor. A few have told their doctors they can't afford it. I know of 2 that told their doctor they purchase from dispensary. One of those patients had his script reduced by half, the other was outright denied his renewal.

I know that at least 4 doctors are doing this. A lawyer got involved in one case, and the doctor apologized but denied any favoritism toward the lp. He ended up resigning the patient, but has denied others for the same reason.

My question: although this is clearly unethical and immoral, is it illegal? I mean just because a patient favors dispensary product, that shouldn't allow the doctor to suddenly decide that the patient needs x amount less to treat the same ailment. Have any of you heard of this? How are the doctors benefiting? Percentage of patients purchases maybe?
 
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WeeblesWobbles

Well-Known Member
I know there are lawsuits flying around up there, but aren't Licensed Producers the only legal source of medical marijuana under the MMPR? The MMPR also prohibits storefronts and dispensaries.

Doctors tend to pay attention to situations that could get their license pulled or their name in the newspaper. I'd lean toward "following the law" over "getting kickbacks from LPs."
 
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tiktak1297

Well-Known Member
WeeblesWobbles said:
I know there are lawsuits flying around up there, but aren't Licensed Producers the only legal source of medical marijuana under the MMPR? The MMPR also prohibits storefronts and dispensaries.

Doctors tend to pay attention to situations that could get their license pulled or their name in the newspaper. I'd lean toward "following the law" over "getting kickbacks from LPs."
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But their job is to prescribe. Not determine if/how much you are actually using. When is the last time you got a call from your doctor cuz the pharmacy told him you didn't refill your prescription
 
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WeeblesWobbles

Well-Known Member
I understand and you have a real point there. But there are many cases where doctors in the States have come under scrutiny for not managing their patients. Maybe it's the same up there. It might be the doc saying "Hey Marge, call the LP and see if X, Y, and Z have filled their scripts."

Hospital and outpatient pharmacists call to see if patients have picked up their scripts all the time, down here. It's considered a standard of quality care, especially in the elderly. Doc prescribes drug before discharge from the hospital, staff pharmacist confirms pickup and makes sure they understand the regimen.
 
cannadan

cannadan

Well-Known Member
I would lean toward ....then getting a fee or kickback for having got you signed with an LP....
My doctor(GP) said she did not believe in mmj .....and would not sign my mmar forms...
but two years after I got my prescription from a specialist.... despite my doctor
she offers to sign me up with an LP...during on of my blood work appointments...
for sure its for some money....otherwise I doubt she would have offered....
I declined and told her I was okay under the injunction....so thanks but no thanks...
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
tiktak1297 said:
But their job is to prescribe. Not determine if/how much you are actually using. When is the last time you got a call from your doctor cuz the pharmacy told him you didn't refill your prescription
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I would put money on the docs getting kickbacks. Big pharma's been doing it for years to get their product out there, why would the LP weasels not do the same? Anyone have any experience with foi requests?
 
nsbudca

nsbudca

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
I would put money on the docs getting kickbacks. Big pharma's been doing it for years to get their product out there, why would the LP weasels not do the same? Anyone have any experience with foi requests?
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When I went to get my script renewed, my doctor had recently been visited by cannimed sales people.

He was basically cramming them down my throat. I told him why cannimed sucked and that I wasn't interested.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
doingdishes

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
tiktak1297 said:
So I hang around a few dispensaries in the Toronto area. Over the past 3 months I have heard the same story enough times to be alarmed. Patients going to their doctors to get their mmpr renewed are being questioned by their doctor as to why they aren't buying from their LP. Apparently the lps are sharing the patients purchase history with the doctor. A few have told their doctors they can't afford it. I know of 2 that told their doctor they purchase from dispensary. One of those patients had his script reduced by half, the other was outright denied his renewal.

I know that at least 4 doctors are doing this. A lawyer got involved in one case, and the doctor apologized but denied any favoritism toward the lp. He ended up resigning the patient, but has denied others for the same reason.

My question: although this is clearly unethical and immoral, is it illegal? I mean just because a patient favors dispensary product, that shouldn't allow the doctor to suddenly decide that the patient needs x amount less to treat the same ailment. Have any of you heard of this? How are the doctors benefiting? Percentage of patients purchases maybe?
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i would take it up with the College of Physicians and Surgeins in your province. put in a complaint against the Dr. don't go for mediation because then it's sealed and not public.
 
OG_pharma

OG_pharma

Active Member
They way it works, as explained to me by various LP's ... The 'clinics' charge the LP what they call an "education fee" (they say its the cost of educating the patients about what the LP has to offer) The education fee is 15-25% of ALL SALES. Anything the patient buys from the LP, the clinic gets 15-25%.
Most clinics charge the patient an upfront fee, usually $150-$400. plus they are getting 15-25% of everything you buy form their "preferred LP's" (the ones they have made deals with to send patients their way).... Of the few clinics i know the doctors they have working for them get a large part of the 15-25% of sales.. they get it through the clinics in such a way that is is not a "kickback" .. well it is, but on paper its "not"

Doctors are now requiring a treatment agreement be signed... the patient has to swear they will only purchase from said LP and if the doc follos up with the LP and you havent been purchasing your script, you forfeit it.... They are basically forcing you to buy from on LP that gives them the kickback i mean education fee
 
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WeeblesWobbles

Well-Known Member
OG_pharma said:
They way it works, as explained to me by various LP's ... The 'clinics' charge the LP what they call an "education fee" (they say its the cost of educating the patients about what the LP has to offer) The education fee is 15-25% of ALL SALES. Anything the patient buys from the LP, the clinic gets 15-25%. Most clinics charge an upfront fee for getting you your recomendation, usually $150-$400. p;lus they are getting 15-15% of everything you buy.... Of the few clinics i know they doctors are the ones who get the 15-25% of sales.. they get it through the clinics in such a way that is is not a "kickback" .. well it is, but on paper its "not"
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Huh. Thanks for that. That relationship would be illegal in the US if it was a pharmacy/MRI/chemo center. (Dunno about mm in the States, we don't have it where I live.) I assumed Canada would have similar rules. Live and learn.

This whole thing sounds like a scam.
 
OG_pharma

OG_pharma

Active Member
WeeblesWobbles said:
Huh. Thanks for that. That relationship would be illegal in the US if it was a pharmacy/MRI/chemo center. I assumed Canada would have similar rules. Live and learn.
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Ya its a load of crap.. the CPSO tried to stop it but there's too many loopholes to get around it... especially since cannabis isn't considered a drug.
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
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WeeblesWobbles

Well-Known Member
Chemotherapy has made great strides. In some areas like childhood leukemia--which was a death sentence when I was a kid--many types can be cured. In other types of cancer, it's not cured but has been turned into a chronic disease. There are big changes coming in chemotherapy. Good ones.

There are bad actors in every field but, in general, the pharma and medical professionals I deal with are moral, honest, and ethical individuals.
 
CalyxCrusher

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
OG_pharma said:
Doctors are now requiring a treatment agreement be signed... the patient has to swear they will only purchase from said LP and if the doc follos up with the LP and you havent been purchasing your script, you forfeit it..
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Sounds like forceful purchasing. "Hey we noticed you haven't ordered lately. Better do it or be removed from our patient list............"
 
doingdishes

doingdishes

Well-Known Member
WeeblesWobbles said:
Chemotherapy has made great strides. In some areas like childhood leukemia--which was a death sentence when I was a kid--many types can be cured. In other types of cancer, it's not cured but has been turned into a chronic disease. There are big changes coming in chemotherapy. Good ones.

There are bad actors in every field but, in general, the pharma and medical professionals I deal with are moral, honest, and ethical individuals.
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you're an exception here...a lot of us have had many problems with Dr's....especially trying to get them to sign us up so we can use MJ as a medicine. a lot of Dr's won't look at you if you ask them to sign you.

even though you say chemo has made great strides, i wouldn't recommend it. there's a lot of stuff out there that shows it VERY bad for your body.
I am not saying don't do it but be aware of what else is out there
 
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