Elwood Diggler
Well-Known Member
I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.
RONALD REAGAN, Mar. 24, 1984
RONALD REAGAN, Mar. 24, 1984
Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You conveniently forgot that Bushs' administration along with Greenspans' SEC decided to give banks the power of self regulation of credit default swaps and other dodgy instruments of economic destruction. Bad mortgage debt was needed to feed these instruments. Gullible home buyers and home owners bought in to the housing bubble. By the time the crisis was fully accounted for, the risk to this nation was in the hundreds of biillions of dollars. Those debts were completely under the radar until the crisis due to inept management.
Under Obama, the banks were bailed out (TARP). The country is in the black on those bail out loans but the full accounting is not complete. Also the bail outs for Fannie and Freddie are turning a profit. https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/
Of the 780 investments made by the Treasury, 577 have resulted in a profit. 124 of the investments resulted in a loss. So far, the profits amount to $48.2 billion, while the losses amount to $17.3 billion. 79 of the investments are still outstanding.
The total amount invested in Fannie and Freddie so far is$187B.
The Treasury has been earning a return on its investments, which has resulted in a profit. So far the companies have paid$241B in dividends to the Treasury.
The purpose of these bailouts was to staunch a crisis that was born and nurtured under the former Republican president. It would have been better if Bush jr had not caused the crisis but that's what happened.
The rest of your stuff is just Republican propaganda that has little fact to back it up. For instance that bit about "just throwing money at the problem..." What are you talking about? What are we throwing money at? National defense? Social Security? Medicare and Medicaid? If you want to see cuts there, be specific and tell me who in the government proposes doing this. I don't see any Republican candidate with a plan to cut spending, only to cut taxes...again.
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
what has the stimulus packages done Create more Jobs or put you more into debt
The national Debt is 18 trillion and climbing how much do you owe ???? did you know in 2004 you owed the government or every citizen in USA owes 72,000 Dollars as of today you and Every person in the united states ( Citizen ) owes 154,000 time to pay up peeps
The national Debt is 18 trillion and climbing how much do you owe ???? did you know in 2004 you owed the government or every citizen in USA owes 72,000 Dollars as of today you and Every person in the united states ( Citizen ) owes 154,000 time to pay up peeps
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Very convenient to just look at the result. So, tell me, what would the crisis have looked like if the government had not accrued that debt? Recall that revenues go down during a recession. Cutting spending in the teeth of that economic storm would have shocked this country into an even greater crisis. Its exactly what happened under the Hoover administration at the beginning of the Great Depression. So, no, there should be no regret over the increase in the deficit at this time. Debt was intelligently applied to this problem. Now that the crisis is over, the debt is going down and it's time to accelerate this trend by increasing tax revenue, mostly from the people that actually benefited from the banking crisis, the same that got us into this jam, the 1%. Sanders has this plan.
So, tell me, which Republican presidential candidate has published a plan to address the debt? All I see are tax cuts and no meaningful cuts to the only areas that will make a dent in the debt, such as national defense, social security, medicare and medicaid.
since1991
Well-Known Member
Walmart at new employee orientations has been known to show how employees can sign up for brodge card food assistance. This is bullshit if you ask me. These mcjobs and this whole new "service" economy......this country is fukt. And dont give me that learn a skill go to school shit....people working these bullsbit wage non union sevice jobs have went to school. Alot of them anyways. Thats all thats out there. People.like the Koch Brothers want to see working poor die off. Believe that. Survival of the most savvy with numbers money and power. This is how it really is. In my world. Reality.
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2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
Thats the thing not one from any of them has really adressed the issues there only going with whats the media is feeding the populous as in ilegals are to blame , health care and lieing about lowering taxes
Absolutely no one benefited other then the ones that stayed afloat or the ones the Gov deemed important
And truthfully speaking when that crash came USA would of been better off letting it ride meaning the average person had savings then and would of rode the bumpy wave struggling on the back end
Now its not if its when it comes the second wave and that is where people will drown everyone's fucked cause there savings are depleted but again this time its Global ..
Well if the Government took out money or borrowed from retirement fund only to stiff you ..
And with baby boomers coming into retirement who is going to pay them
Absolutely no one benefited other then the ones that stayed afloat or the ones the Gov deemed important
And truthfully speaking when that crash came USA would of been better off letting it ride meaning the average person had savings then and would of rode the bumpy wave struggling on the back end
Now its not if its when it comes the second wave and that is where people will drown everyone's fucked cause there savings are depleted but again this time its Global ..
Well if the Government took out money or borrowed from retirement fund only to stiff you ..
And with baby boomers coming into retirement who is going to pay them
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Wing nuts...
Did you know that 2004 was the year of tax cuts and increased spending by the Republican president? Right wingers are not serious about the national debt. Otherwise, the largest unfunded tax cut in history would not have been enacted. If you haven't guessed, Bush Jr was not my selection for president in either of his so called victories in the poll. Republican rats have been running away from Bush ever since he left office because he was such a fuck up. That doesn't stop them from planning to make the same mistakes all over again.
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
The United States is now by far the biggest debtor nation in the world. For many years we have been importing hundreds of billions more dollars in goods and services than we are exporting each year. In 2005 through 2008 the trade imbalance averaged well over 700 billion dollars per year! Trillions of US dollars are now in the hands of foreign investors who at any time could dump the dollar causing a devaluation of the currency.
During the presidency of Bill Clinton the US government was forecasting surpluses of trillions of dollars based on the stupid assumption that there would not be a downturn in the economy for decades. This foolish assumption was of course proven wrong and deficit spending in 2009 and 2010 will be at least two trillion dollars a year if everything is really counted. The only reason the United States is not yet feeling the pinch of spending beyond its means has been the record low interest rates. The low interest rates were brought about by Federal Reserve manipulation to stimulate the economy but interest rates eventually will have to rise. Soon all who need loans will be making higher payments and the US government will be paying much more to service the national debt.
Debt and unfunded liabilities promised through entitlement programs is now about 125 trillion dollars. This amount of money in non inflationary dollars is impossible to raise! Thus, the US is now technically bankrupt. In order to keep up the facade that the US is solvent for even another decade or two, one or more of the following must happen.
1. Taxes must be raised.
2. Government spending will have to be drastically cut.
3. Deficit spending will dramatically increase.
If taxes are raised, it will kill the economy and the debt load will get worse and not better. Spending will not be drastically cut because these types of cuts would never get through the political system. Therefore, massive deficit spending will take place. The monetary system will be inflated so that this debt can be paid by using a dollar worth only a fraction of what it is today. This means a much weaker dollar in the future and much higher prices for all goods and services imported to the United States (in short it means we should expect high inflation or hyper-Inflation).
The best long term scenario is that the economy will expand for decades and we will partly grow our way out of this debt crunch (like we temporarily did under Ronald Reagan). But, I do not see stability for that length of time as even a remote possibility in this world full of crises. I think it is only a matter of time before another downturn in the economy or an unforeseen world event brings about the collapse of this house of cards.
The catalyst for a crash can come in any number of ways. One likely scenario is that confidence in the US dollar will falter.When this happens interest rates will have to rise dramatically to try to lure foreign investors to re-service our debt. Higher interest rates will then shut down our economy and less tax money will be raised. The debt will still have to be paid at the higher interest rate so the government will print even more money and deficit spending will increase. The dollar will fall in value against other currencies bringing about an inflation spiral in the United States and even more dumping of US dollars for more stable currencies.
During the presidency of Bill Clinton the US government was forecasting surpluses of trillions of dollars based on the stupid assumption that there would not be a downturn in the economy for decades. This foolish assumption was of course proven wrong and deficit spending in 2009 and 2010 will be at least two trillion dollars a year if everything is really counted. The only reason the United States is not yet feeling the pinch of spending beyond its means has been the record low interest rates. The low interest rates were brought about by Federal Reserve manipulation to stimulate the economy but interest rates eventually will have to rise. Soon all who need loans will be making higher payments and the US government will be paying much more to service the national debt.
Debt and unfunded liabilities promised through entitlement programs is now about 125 trillion dollars. This amount of money in non inflationary dollars is impossible to raise! Thus, the US is now technically bankrupt. In order to keep up the facade that the US is solvent for even another decade or two, one or more of the following must happen.
1. Taxes must be raised.
2. Government spending will have to be drastically cut.
3. Deficit spending will dramatically increase.
If taxes are raised, it will kill the economy and the debt load will get worse and not better. Spending will not be drastically cut because these types of cuts would never get through the political system. Therefore, massive deficit spending will take place. The monetary system will be inflated so that this debt can be paid by using a dollar worth only a fraction of what it is today. This means a much weaker dollar in the future and much higher prices for all goods and services imported to the United States (in short it means we should expect high inflation or hyper-Inflation).
The best long term scenario is that the economy will expand for decades and we will partly grow our way out of this debt crunch (like we temporarily did under Ronald Reagan). But, I do not see stability for that length of time as even a remote possibility in this world full of crises. I think it is only a matter of time before another downturn in the economy or an unforeseen world event brings about the collapse of this house of cards.
The catalyst for a crash can come in any number of ways. One likely scenario is that confidence in the US dollar will falter.When this happens interest rates will have to rise dramatically to try to lure foreign investors to re-service our debt. Higher interest rates will then shut down our economy and less tax money will be raised. The debt will still have to be paid at the higher interest rate so the government will print even more money and deficit spending will increase. The dollar will fall in value against other currencies bringing about an inflation spiral in the United States and even more dumping of US dollars for more stable currencies.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Republican propaganda, all of this is.
Most baby boomers can't afford to retire, so that's one problem solved.
As far as what you say should have happened, well, the Great Depression is a good lesson on what happens when the government spirals downward in size and scope when the private economy tanks. It just makes matters worse.
There isn't a "second wave" coming. We are due for a correction soon, a cyclical and minor recession but not anything like what happened in 2008.
Really, dude you are just fearful from listening to Republican propaganda. I ask you again, which GOP candidate addresses the concerns you so densely repeat over and over again?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie, 2016 all you need to know.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I said the economy took off like a rocket... Which part of that did you not understand??You are so misinformed, I worry about the pools you clean.
Reagan didn't cut taxes, he "reformed" the tax code. Economists argue about the benefits of this too.
And he increased spending. Most of which went to GOP hogs at the trough. It was the beginning of the largest deficit created during good economic conditions. Before Reagan, the national debt was mostly run up by Vietnam war. After Reagan, it was run up by feeding GOP hogs like defense companies, oil companies and corrupt bankers.
Obama adroitly managed the recession. He handled it without cutting spending and by keeping interest rates low. Now that the crisis is over, the deficit is shrinking along with the very necessary debt accrued by the intelligent use of debt through the crisis. The proof is in those graphs that @Flaming Pie posted. No Republican would have managed the crisis this well.
2ANONYMOUS
Well-Known Member
trust me FG there not going to be no Bernie NEVER he has been a joke as Senator and never get a chance Romney should of been in Paul guy should of been in would of had better chance then Bernie
I would not doubt The new president is already picked this is all just a fucking show like a lottery that someone wins yet we never see the numbers falling from a machine like the old Days its all Fixed like the super bowl was its money money money oh i forgot that trumps tune lol
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, I admit that Bernie may not win. I think he will but Hillary will be an OK president. What in hell do the GOP candidates do to address the dissonance of their message? Cut taxes, re-invade Iraq AND balance the budget? Won't happen and the electorate are too smart to buy it.
But thanks for at least doing more than typing a diatribe. Your post was good.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
idiot, you don't even remember that post. you said a lot more than "us do great!" I responded to everything you said. Yet you just remember one word. Dunce.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't think he's going to lose. If he does, ask this again.
Elwood Diggler
Well-Known Member
1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.
2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.
good idea taking econ 101 from raygun
Elwood Diggler
Well-Known Member
since1991
Well-Known Member
All anyone wants in this country is a home , a reliable vehicle, food in the fridge and a decent job with benefits and a retirement plan. And to be left alone doing it. Everyone in my world...thats all. Thats apparently too much now a days. Why and how has this country got to where its at? Fuk you step on you to get mine everyone for themselves mentality? What regular folks want and need i dont think is too much to ask for. I dont give a shit about politicians to be honest. Religion either. None of that shit has done me anything. What happened to this nation?