Test Yourself

[Fogdog]

You sure seem to be focusing on the residence aspect and avoiding the employer aspect. But, I'll play along.

You seem to be missing the point that the whistleblowers would ALWAYS be the illegal aliens turning in the employer/landlord at the first opportunity, who else would know sooner than them?

If you insist of focusing on the possibility that the illegal alien who dupes the landlord into renting him/her an apartment for the reward, doesn't immediately turn them in, fine. Add a $50,000 false accusation penalty. You're on a tangent to try to complicate what is inherently simple.

If you hire an illegal, that same illegal turns you in for the reward.

And did you actually ask how the government is going to find out if you are or aren't a citizen? How about the same fucking background check we go through for a firearm, purchase?

Not falsely focusing on residency. You said illegals or their landlord would be snitched upon if they tried to rent. I'm just saying that your country of snitches would almost certainly start snitching if they even suspected an illegal were in a residence. Would this not necessarily require a response from immigration feds? I answered your question and you have not answered mine. The hypothetical question regards your home with wife, child under age of driving privileges and a cousin in temporary residence. What if a snitch called the authorities on speculation that your cousin was an illegal and you were renting to him?

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Interesting thought, but do you think an illegal would really go to the government and be like "I'm an illegal, this guy is hiring me, I'll take the 50,000 and get deported?" I'm a little on the fence on that one.

Do I think there wouldn't be THOUSANDS of illegals out there trying to catch an employer sleeping at the wheel for a $50,000 payday? No, I know they would.

 

[Fogdog]

If the illegal can turn in the employer and receive a reward of $50,000, what employers is going to take the chance that the $60 he's gonna pay the illegal for the day is more valuable? It would make the risk of hiring an illegal so dramatically high, only an imbecile would risk it.

This sounds like a pretty good scam. Sneak into the country, find somebody to "hire" you. Turn yourself in and collect the reward. Sneak back in and do it all over again. The person that "hired" you gets his cut later, after he's pled guilty without the ability to pay the fine. So then, what? Jail time or some sort of parole? I don't understand how this works.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Not falsely focusing on residency. You said illegals or their landlord would be snitched upon if they tried to rent. I'm just saying that your country of snitches would almost certainly start snitching if they even suspected an illegal were in a residence. Would this not necessarily require a response from immigration feds? I answered your question and you have not answered mine. The hypothetical question regards your home with wife, child under age of driving privileges and a cousin in temporary residence. What if a snitch called the authorities on speculation that your cousin was an illegal and you were renting to him?

The reason I can't answer your question is because it's absurd on its face. In your question, some outsider is snitching on a landlord for renting to an illegal alien who would have already turned in the landlord for the reward, the second the keys were put in his hand.

Same thing applies to family. What property owner is going to rent to his illegal alien cousin, knowing the first time they get in an argument, he can turn him in for $50,000.

 

[Fogdog]

Do I think there wouldn't be THOUSANDS of illegals out there trying to catch an employer sleeping at the wheel for a $50,000 payday? No, I know they would.

The reason I can't answer your question is because it's absurd on its face. In your question, some outsider is snitching on a landlord for renting to an illegal alien who would have already turned in the landlord for the reward, the second the keys were put in his hand.

Same thing applies to family. What property owner is going to rent to his illegal alien cousin, knowing the first time they get in an argument, he can turn him in for $50,000.

It doesn't have to be a real case of a violation for there to be a snitch. In the system you suggest, anybody, but in this question, YOU at your home with your family can be targeted by a snitch on speculation with a chance at a $50k payday and no downside to the snitch if he's wrong. All the snitch does is call you in to the feds. Without showing up at your door asking for proof of residency for everybody in the home, how would a fed know if this is not a case of an under the table rental agreement?

 

[MuyLocoNC]

This sounds like a pretty good scam. Sneak into the country, find somebody to "hire" you. Turn yourself in and collect the reward. Sneak back in and do it all over again. The person that "hired" you gets his cut later, after he's pled guilty without the ability to pay the fine. So then, what? Jail time or some sort of parole? I don't understand how this works.

Another nice diversion.

Let's concentrate on the MILLIONS of business owners that want to keep their livelihoods and assets, rather than whatever amount of fraud you're trying to claim. How about that?

Are they going to hire illegals under those circumstances? No.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

It doesn't have to be a real case of a violation for there to be a snitch. In the system you suggest, anybody, but in this question, YOU at your home with your family can be targeted by a snitch on speculation with a chance at a $50k payday and no downside to the snitch if he's wrong. All the snitch does is call you in to the feds. Without showing up at your door asking for proof of residency for everybody in the home, how would a fed know if this is not a case of an under the table rental agreement?

Actually, the Feds would show up at the landlord's door asking for his verification. He'd be the one facing the penalty. I would imagine if his proof was suspect, they would rightly investigate the renter.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

The other aspect you're missing is how is the illegal paying the first and last, plus security deposit, when no employer will hire him?

It wouldn't take two months before every employer was diligently verifying the legal status of every potential employee. And there would be ZERO instances of employers intentionally hiring illegals under the table.

Like I said, infallible.

 

[Fogdog]

Another nice diversion.

Let's concentrate on the MILLIONS of business owners that want to keep their livelihoods and assets, rather than whatever amount of fraud your trying to claim. How about that?

Are they going to hire illegals under those circumstances? No.

I'm not diverting. I'm just not smoking the very high quality weed that you seem to be on and I'm kind of jealous. Inhale deeply and say yeaahhh that would be great.

You seem to only want to focus on areas where the system should be working already. I had to prove my legal status when I was hired. I don't know why the current law isn't working but it isn't. So, your bounty would give everybody an incentive to root out illegals at work and at home. $50k is a serious payday. What stops people from reporting others on spec or as a dirty trick on somebody else who might have lost his paperwork?

Since you can't answer the question then I'm calling bullshit on your plan. What your "plan" would create is a country of snitches that could at any time put a family member at jeopardy of a serious legal hassle if they did not have the necessary paperwork at hand to prove residency at any time. This is already happening in the Latino community in Arizona, so its not a stretch to think that it can happen elsewhere and to anybody.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

I'm not diverting. I'm just not smoking the very high quality weed that you seem to be on and I'm kind of jealous. Inhale deeply and say yeaahhh that would be great.

You seem to only want to focus on areas where the system should be working already. I had to prove my legal status when I was hired. I don't know why the current law isn't working but it isn't. So, your bounty would give everybody an incentive to root out illegals at work and at home. $50k is a serious payday. What stops people from reporting others on spec or as a dirty trick on somebody else who might have lost his paperwork?

Since you can't answer the question then I'm calling bullshit on your plan. What your "plan" would create is a country of snitches that could at any time put a family member at jeopardy of a serious legal hassle if they did not have the necessary paperwork at hand to prove residency at any time. This is already happening in the Latino community in Arizona, so its not a stretch to think that it can happen elsewhere and to anybody.

I disagree and think that scenario could easily be prevented by penalties for false accusations. But again, I'll play along.

What if we limited the whistleblower reward to just the illegal alien employee? All your problems with my plan are washed away and the effect is exactly the same.

 

[Fogdog]

The other aspect you're missing is how is the illegal paying the first and last, plus security deposit, when no employer will hire him?

It wouldn't take two months before every employer was diligently verifying the legal status of every potential employee. And there would be ZERO instances of employers intentionally hiring illegals under the table.

Like I said, infallible.

There doesn't have to be a violation of anything. All one needs is to lose the paperwork or card or whatever that is needed to prove legal status. From that point on, they are at risk of serious legal hassles.

I disagree and think that scenario could easily be prevented by penalties for false accusations. But again, I'll play along.

What if we limited the whistleblower reward to just the illegal alien employee? All your problems with my plan are washed away and the effect is exactly the same.

OK, so the illegal alien doesn't want to go home because his life is better here. The only person that can report him is himself, is that right? So then he doesn't turn himself in. He doesn't report his landlord. How does this solve illegal immigration?

 

[MuyLocoNC]

OK, so the illegal alien doesn't want to go home because his life is better here. The only person that can report him is himself, is that right? So then he doesn't turn himself in. He doesn't report his landlord. How does this solve illegal immigration?

C'mon, you're playing naive now. Illegals are obviously being hired or as you admitted, they wouldn't be here.

You're a business owner that used to hire illegals because you made more profit. Or maybe you just didn't give a shit enough to diligently verify. You have a business with assets, a home, cars, savings account, retirement account and family counting on you. My plan is enacted.

Are you going to risk everything on the hope that the illegals you hire fall into the fairy tale description you provided above? What about when they get pissed at you? What about the fact they have that hanging over you forever, even if they leave your employ? Are you still going to hire them? Are you still going to be blasé in your verification process? The answer is absolutely not.

And you ask how it solves illegal immigration.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

The beauty of the plan is after a few public executions, businesses will be forced to follow the laws already on the books. This is just a means to pressure them into doing so. I don't even think it would take that. The second it was enacted, the hiring of illegal aliens would cease immediately.

 

[Fogdog]

C'mon, you're playing naive now. Illegals are obviously being hired or as you admitted, they wouldn't be here.

You're a business owner that used to hire illegals because you made more profit. Or maybe you just didn't give a shit enough to diligently verify. You have a business with assets, a home, cars, savings account, retirement account and family counting on you. My plan is enacted.

Are you going to risk everything on the hope that the illegals you hire fall into the fairy tale description you provided above? What about when they get pissed at you? What about the fact they have that hanging over you forever, even if they leave your employ? Are you still going to hire them? Are you still going to be blasé in your verification process? The answer is absolutely not.

And you ask how it solves illegal immigration.

All one needs is false documentation to get those jobs. All the employer needs to do is prove that they asked for that documentation. After that, as long as the immigrant does not turn himself in, he's here.

Which does beg the question regarding documentation. What does your proposal use to verify legal status? Do schools require proof of status for a kid to enter our education system?

My overall point is that you have greatly underestimated how hard enforcing a bounty system will be. Somehow we need an accurate registry, which to begin with, will be fought by wingnuts and liberals. Assuming you get it in place, everybody from babies to old folks in retirement homes will need it. A hurricane or flood will cause many people to lose this document, what then? Your plan is a hot mess.

Even so, I enjoyed the thought experiment.

 

[sunni]

Bernie 96%
Jill Stein 94%
Hilary 89%

not like i can vote anyways i dont even have my green card yet . lol

 

[MuyLocoNC]

All one needs is false documentation to get those jobs. All the employer needs to do is prove that they asked for that documentation. After that, as long as the immigrant does not turn himself in, he's here.

Which does beg the question regarding documentation. What does your proposal use to verify legal status? Do schools require proof of status for a kid to enter our education system?

My overall point is that you have greatly underestimated how hard enforcing a bounty system will be. Somehow we need an accurate registry, which to begin with, will be fought by wingnuts and liberals. Assuming you get it in place, everybody from babies to old folks in retirement homes will need it. A hurricane or flood will cause many people to lose this document, what then? Your plan is a hot mess.

Even so, I enjoyed the thought experiment.

Likewise.

 

[NLXSK1]

How about instead of subjecting citizens of the country to this bad idea that we just start executing people for being in the country illegally...

Wont cost billions of dollars either.

 

[Padawanbater2]

How about instead of subjecting citizens of the country to this bad idea that we just start executing people for being in the country illegally...

Wont cost billions of dollars either.

You think we should execute people for coming into America illegally?

 

[NLXSK1]

I think it is a better idea than charging someone 50,000 dollars for hiring or housing an illegal immigrant.

I also think there are better ways to get people to leave the country if they are illegal but why not?

 

[Padawanbater2]

why not?

1. The state should not have the authority to execute its own citizens let alone citizens of another country

2. It's inhumane as fuck

3. The punishment doesn't fit the crime

To start