Conventional In-line -Vs- Convertible Bottom Draw Submersible Pumps

[TheGrowFarmer]

I've been doing some extensive research within the time frame that I have, and I've asked around and not too many people seem to be too familiar with the Convertible bottom draw line of pumps; for a DIY aeroponics and DWC Hydroponics system.

I'm looking at a 396 GPH pump (only seem to sell them on ebay.ca, and nowhere retail in Canada) that could be compatible with an 8 and 17 gallon system (i was told it would suffice). I'm looking for a pump that has a long life cycle, and doesn't break easily during normal pump operations It'll be on a timer, so something energy efficient maybe too ?

Basically I'd like to know from the community which you have used in a DIY system, and are there really any noticeable advantages to have one over the other ?

Gardenpool.org uses in-line submersible pumps, and recommended the 396GPH pumps..
though I'm looking at the specs for the bottom draw pumps, (better attachment fitting options) and it comes in only (265, 585, and the 730 GPH) .. would the 265GPH pump be enough for my system if i set up a top-drip with a flow regulator and perforated irrigation line around the grow medium .. (i want a drip, not a soak) ..

Keep in mind I am just getting into aeroponics and hydro, and self teaching..
I searched the forum before i created this thread. Mind you I dont have hours to go through pages upon pages.. i went through the first 5 and thought "damn, nobody made a thread yet.."

thanks for all or any info guys !

I'll be sure to share my progress

 

[Major Blazer]

396 works in submersible and inline. Idk what you mean bottom draw, idk how that would serve any purpose other than to drain a res easier. If its for that too, the inlet has a 1/2" mpt so you can easily set it up to do so.

To know if a pump is right for you, you'll have to measure the height the water needs to travel but I am willing to bet that the 265 will even be overkill for you. Drip feed doesn't tend to need much in the way of pump power.

 

[blackforest]

I would just make sure it's a mag drive pump

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

yeah im pretty sure its mag-drive oil-less.. i was told with the 396 i good as long as i put a minimum of 6 spray nozzles through PVC lines. Whereas I'm more interested in having a drip as-well-as an aeroponic set-up within the same manifold..

I just wonder if the 265 bottom draw will suffice for all my needs. As the latter 396 was suggested to me..tricky decision.

I wish someone has used this convertible type pump before.

 

[Major Blazer]

What are you confused on?

I didn't know that they released a new model like that. Personally it would make no sense to purchase the new variant when the previous models are capable of more and can easily be converted to bottom draw if it really matters.

 

[Major Blazer]

This is how I mean. With 1/2" mpt you have limitless possibilities in the hardware store. You can run the pump inline, or submersed. If bottom draw means so much for you, you get a $1.00 attachment like the one below and viola, bottom draw. That new "convertible" pump is lame to me b/c now you can no longer take advantage of inline water pumps.

 

[AKGrowAreo]

Sup bro. I have a lot of these pumps and NONE of them have failed...ever. Active Aqua all the way! I have also used the eco plus, but I have seen a few of them fail over the years so I always buy Active Aqua now. http://www.amazon.com/AAPW1000-1000-GPH-Submersible-Hydroponic-Aquarium/dp/B0049XENYS/ref=pd_sim_86_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=517wGwlqcCL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=1PW6YNR8TSBF4W02R6XJ
Probable the same price at your hydro store. The flow rate is adjustable on these which I like a lot.

 

[AKGrowAreo]

the 400 gph will do thew job that your 396 would have, but a little better

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

thank you all for your feedback.
I wish there was more info or customer reviews on the latter convertible pumps..
I guess its worth a shot. I need two pumps..

I guess what im confused about is if a 396GPH pumps will be enough back pressure for 8 drip irrigation lines as well a a 360* spray head nozzle to top the manifold off. So essentially running an aeration and a drip sys. in one.

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

This is how I mean. With 1/2" mpt you have limitless possibilities in the hardware store. You can run the pump inline, or submersed. If bottom draw means so much for you, you get a $1.00 attachment like the one below and viola, bottom draw. That new "convertible" pump is lame to me b/c now you can no longer take advantage of inline water pumps.

Even adding that attach fitting for a retrofitted in-line to a bottom draw system; there are losses in flow rate.
Not by much, though I bought both the Ecoline 396 and the 265 convertible. I'll let you know from first hand experience what I think. Because I researched for days, and there are literally 5 reviews and 1 video on the internet that display this pump, and it's capabilities.

 

[twistedwords]

Simple answer for this question. If you are using a RDWC then go with a inline pump. All other applications you can go with the bottom feeding pump or the side feeding pump. Inline is used primarily when you have the pump outside of water and sitting on the ground. As far as GPH goes, you only need as much GPH to move the water every 10 to 15 minutes so you can get dissolved oxygen. If you are using flood tables, Bato/Dutch/Hempy buckets, NFT then you don't have to worry about dissolved oxygen as that occurs naturally. So for example let's say you have a 6 site RDWC going and in each 5 gallon bucket you have 2.5 gallons of water. That will require 2.5 X 6 = 15 gallons of water in buckets and you will need to add another 2.5 gallons for the controller for a total of 17.5 gallons. With a 396 GPH pump that you sited it would move the water completely 396/17.5 = 22 times an hour or every 60/22 = 2.2 minutes. As you can see this is overkill as no plant is going to dilute water with DO ever 2 minutes. You can throttle down the flow rate as not needed with this pump. As far as energy goes, you can leave a pond pump on like this one 24/7 365 and it will cost you around 2 dollars per year which equates to peanuts. If you are going to be spending 100 dollars on seeds, the 2 bucks is nothing. think about it

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

Simple answer for this question. If you are using a RDWC then go with a inline pump. All other applications you can go with the bottom feeding pump or the side feeding pump. Inline is used primarily when you have the pump outside of water and sitting on the ground. As far as GPH goes, you only need as much GPH to move the water every 10 to 15 minutes so you can get dissolved oxygen. If you are using flood tables, Bato/Dutch/Hempy buckets, NFT then you don't have to worry about dissolved oxygen as that occurs naturally. So for example let's say you have a 6 site RDWC going and in each 5 gallon bucket you have 2.5 gallons of water. That will require 2.5 X 6 = 15 gallons of water in buckets and you will need to add another 2.5 gallons for the controller for a total of 17.5 gallons. With a 396 GPH pump that you sited it would move the water completely 396/17.5 = 22 times an hour or every 60/22 = 2.2 minutes. As you can see this is overkill as no plant is going to dilute water with DO ever 2 minutes. You can throttle down the flow rate as not needed with this pump. As far as energy goes, you can leave a pond pump on like this one 24/7 365 and it will cost you around 2 dollars per year which equates to peanuts. If you are going to be spending 100 dollars on seeds, the 2 bucks is nothing. think about it

Wow, very thorough, thank you so much !! This will help me a lot (your formula).
I hadn't a clue if the 396 was overkill.. /ATM I am shopping on amazon for irrigation fittings and lines.

My idea is to configure a pvc cross fitting to attach 2x 1/2" pvc pipes on both sides with an end cap.(tapering off at the end of the box) this is where I'd like to eventually drill and tap for the spray emitters id like on each side.

In my mind it'll be a semi-closed system for the spray emiters (aeration). Then on top of the pvc X adapter I'll have a 2-3" poly-riser attached to an Orbit 67000 Apollo 8 Manifold (control-flow). I figured having flow regulation on the manifold is a back up to the 2gph flag trips at the medium of the top drip system...

MY question is.. from the manifold, with either the 396 or 265 GPH pump, does it matter if i use 1/4" feeder lines to the flag drips,.. Or is it better to have 1/2" irrigation lines running off of the manifold (if they even make these) to a coupling that attaches any 1/4" feeder lines (to the 2gph flag drip lines).

I already bought the 1/4" black irrigation line with 1/4" porous weeping lines... I only really noticed my error when i added the 2gph drip emitter as it said (1/4-Inch feeder line and 1/2-Inch mainline)..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091D3OTQ?ref_=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_i

does it matter ? i mean ill have the pump on 30min on and 30min off.. so im wondering if thats enough time given both systems to run simultaneously ?

 

[twistedwords]

Wow, very thorough, thank you so much !! This will help me a lot (your formula).
I hadn't a clue if the 396 was overkill.. /ATM I am shopping on amazon for irrigation fittings and lines.

My idea is to configure a pvc cross fitting to attach 2x 1/2" pvc pipes on both sides with an end cap.(tapering off at the end of the box) this is where I'd like to eventually drill and tap for the spray emitters id like on each side.

In my mind it'll be a semi-closed system for the spray emiters (aeration). Then on top of the pvc X adapter I'll have a 2-3" poly-riser attached to an Orbit 67000 Apollo 8 Manifold (control-flow). I figured having flow regulation on the manifold is a back up to the top drip system id like to set up...

MY question is.. from the manifold, with either the 396 or 265 GPH pump, does it matter if i use 1/4" mainlines to 1/4" feeder line.. Or is it better to have 1/2" mainline off of the manifold to 1/4" feeder lines (to the 2gph flag drip lines).

I already bought the 1/4" black irrigation line with 1/4" porous weeping lines... I only really noticed my error when i added the 2gph drip emitter as it said (1/4-Inch feeder line and 1/2-Inch mainline)..

does it matter ? i mean ill have the pump on 30min on and 30min off.. so im wondering if thats enough time given both the main and feeder being 1/4"

Sounds like you are trying a spray type hydro setup as that is not Aeroponics. I can only tell you that you have to make sure you maintain your emitters and stay on top of them as they will clog. This setup you are trying does work but it comes at a maintenance cost and a lot of labor and attention.

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

Sounds like you are trying a spray type hydro setup as that is not Aeroponics. I can only tell you that you have to make sure you maintain your emitters and stay on top of them as they will clog. This setup you are trying does work but it comes at a maintenance cost and a lot of labor and attention.

Yes, i am realizing this more now.. but I am already over $100 invested in this DIY project.. that my personality calls for finishing what I started.

With that being said, which flag drips would you recommend that clog the least and will moisten the medium and roots the best ( 0.5, 1, 2, 4 .. GPH rating) and is there any difference in efficiency given my set-up; if I run 1/2" irrigation tubing from the manifold to 1/4" lines to the actual plants. OR just use 1/4" tubing for everything ?

It got confusing cuz the lasco flag drip emitter mentioned it fits 1/2" mainline.. i dont know how a flag drip emitter can hold both a 1/2" and 1/4" snugly.

Note* I started off the base of this "aeroponic" design. So whether I'm building a hydro or an aero system, i need advice lol ! and fast.. hah ! amazon hasnt shipped my first order yet (been four days) so i have time now to group on another order.

 

[twistedwords]

Yes, i am realizing this more now.. but I am already over $100 invested in this DIY project.. that my personality calls for finishing what I started.

With that being said, which flag drips would you recommend that clog the least and will moisten the medium and roots the best ( 0.5, 1, 2, 4 .. GPH rating) and is there any difference in efficiency given my set-up; if I run 1/2" irrigation tubing from the manifold to 1/4" lines to the actual plants. OR just use 1/4" tubing for everything ?

It got confusing cuz the lasco flag drip emitter mentioned it fits 1/2" mainline.. i dont know how a flag drip emitter can hold both a 1/2" and 1/4" snugly.

Note* I started off the base of this "aeroponic" design. So whether I'm building a hydro or an aero system, i need advice lol ! and fast.. hah ! amazon hasnt shipped my first order yet (been four days) so i have time now to group on another order.

I personally wouldn't do it that way. I would go to lowes or home depot and get a manifold that can house up to 8 1/4 inch lines from the 1/2 inch inlet on the manifold. With the manifold you can then either select 1 to 6 gallon per hour on the drip. That is just me though.

http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-Adjustable-8-Port-Irrigation-Manifold/dp/B00004S26U

 

[TheGrowFarmer]

I personally wouldn't do it that way. I would go to lowes or home depot and get a manifold that can house up to 8 1/4 inch lines from the 1/2 inch inlet on the manifold. With the manifold you can then either select 1 to 6 gallon per hour on the drip. That is just me though.

http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-Adjustable-8-Port-Irrigation-Manifold/dp/B00004S26U

You're right exactly, I agree. I sided on that exact manifold, and just got 8 flag drip emitters. one 4gph and the other 2gph.
ill post pics when its all done. i honestly haven't mapped out the irrigation line config. yet. At least in my head i have lol..

I want to get 360* spray head to attach to the 1/2" manifold as a back-up, but I'm not sure if the 396 head height is sufficient PSI.
I noticed a lot of the spray nozzle companies rate their nozzles in PSI, or GP/L, which to figure out mathematically, the PSI, is nearly impossible... I'd have to calculate for all losses in the system, and that I do not know.. nor do I want to invest in anymore equipment.