How To Kill and Keep Off (Almost) ALL Common MJ Pests, Easily.

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Fricking BUGS, especially spider mites, white flies and whatever other type of aphids!

There are two things I use, and I tell you why and especially HOW you need to use them for the best effect. There is no reason to buy hundreds of $$$ on insecticides since those two products can handle almost ALL the common bugs which piss us off so much.

1) Insecticidal soap, also called potassium soap or Castille soap. Kills the critters on contact and is extremely safe. It actually turns to ferilizer (potash) when it decomposes.

2) A good Neem oil (or Karanja oil, same thing essentially) product, like Aza-XYZ. A lot of those products are made w/ 3.2% azadirachtin which is the substance in Neem oil that kills bugs. This is a growth inhibitor which prevents them from coming back and kills them slowly.

Don't make the rookie mistake I made last year and think you can just mix Neem oil (Azamax/trol/etc.) with water since you can't!

For pretty much any Neem oil product you need to first make an emulsion, and this is why you want insecticidal soap.

For your emulsion you should use soft water, so bottled water or distilled or RO - don't use hard tap water. Hard tap water will not cover and stick to leaves properly when you spray.

Make an emulsion with luke warm water and add the recommended dosage, usually 2% of insecticidal soap. Stir, let it dissolve.

Now check your Neem oil product, common dosage is 0.1%-0.125%, in my case would be 1.25ml/L. With a syringe or droppr put the Neem oil in your emulsion. Again, stir.

Now, a lot of Neem product makers say that you SHOULD ph your spraying solution to 4-6. So, as a last step ph it with lemon juice until it's 6 or 5. Especially if you use insecticidal soap since the ph of soapy water is sky-high, like 11. (I didn't have problems spraying like this in the past, however I think it makes sense to ph it!)

Spray your plants well from the underside and upper-side of leaves but don't let too much drip down into your substrate.

Spray right before lights off and do not spray in direct sun or heat, it can burn your plants plus the neem will degrade under light! A good idea is to spray early in the morning or in the evening.

When you spray, keep shaking your sprayer and don't let the emulsion settle.

Get yourself a decent manual pressure sprayer, it makes a BIG difference compared to some dinky hand sprayer. Take my word for it. The best $15 I ever spent is my 5L pressure sprayer :)

Tips:

*** Bugs like mites are a total bitch because many times you are not aware you have them, you might think you have nute problems or whatever UNLESS you check your plants with a microscope.

** If you can you should not spray on buds during flowering. If you really HAVE to because of a severe infestation, try to just spray leaves and no buds. While neither insecticidal soap or Neem would be harmful when smoked it can spoil the taste and effect. I would recommend that you Wash your Buds if you sprayed, for whatever reason, during flowering.

** If you have a severe infestation, spray one day and then wait 3-4 days and spray again. Wait another 4 days and spray again.

** It doesn't hurt at all, in-fact I highly recommend that you do spray preventatively especially if you grow outdoors or semi-outdoors like in a greenhouse. I see the insecticidal soap and the Neem as so safe that it's way better to spray rather than give the bugs a chance to multiply. I could slap myself that I didn't recognize the mites early this time around - I wasted a lot of time thinking about nutes and overwatering, many problems I could have avoided just spraying, say, once every month or two.

Prevention is always better than damage control!

** Natural Insecticidial (Potassium) soap + Neem oil/Azadiractin == 99% of your bug problems (spider mites, white flies etc.) will be gone! That's all you need! For the rest, say, Caterpillars which can also be a bitch later in flowering, especially outdoors, get a Bacterium Thurengiensis product. You should also use this preventatively before any Caterpillar even shows up, so apply
this once you start to flower, eg. when you switch light cycles, don't wait until you see those rotting holes in your buds!

** If you grow semi-outside, greenhouse etc... REST ASSURED bugs *will come*, mites, white flies, caterpillars etc..just waiting to get to your plants, always. Don't wait until you see damage, just assume they will come because they will :)

This basically should cover all your bases.
 
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flexy123

Well-Known Member
If you have spider mites and have a porch or a yard or similar area, HOSE YOUR PLANTS OFF WELL WITH PLAIN WATER, BEFORE you treat them with insecticidal soap emulsion and Neem.

Yes your plants might look awful if you hose them but they will recover within a couple of hours. EVERY. TIME. And then look better than ever before.

(It helps if you tip pots a little and really spray at medium strength with the garden hose so the runoff water from the hose doesn't go right into the pot. While you do this, turn your plants and hose from all sides)

After you hosed them and washed off many eggs and many mites, THEN spray them with the soap/Neem like I described.

Also..do not wash the soap/Neem off afterwards. You want it to stick.

My plants until now survived every hosing and insecticidal soap/Neem spraying. No reason to be overly cautious. You want to get rid of the bugs and your plants will thank you!
 
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outlier

Well-Known Member
Seems the potassium soap isn't common here where I live. I have liquid potassium hydroxide ph up. Wonder if a few drops of this will be as effective.

@MisterBlah is the chemistry buff round here who would know :bigjoint:
 

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Yes I noticed that insecticidal (potassium) soap is not THAT common in some countries. It might called something else, like Kalium Soap (Kali Seife in Germany) and you'd possibly get it from a pharmacy. You might want to check ebay, search 1st for "insecticidal soap", then potassium soap then kalium soap.

Whether potassium hydroxide would work I don't know, I personally would NOT use it. It's all about having actual soap so that you can mix the oil in (emulsion). As a last resort, something like natural soap made from natural oils, without any perfumes/colorings etc. should be available anywhere.

As said, check ebay. Where are you at?
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Seems the potassium soap isn't common here where I live. I have liquid potassium hydroxide ph up. Wonder if a few drops of this will be as effective.

@MisterBlah is the chemistry buff round here who would know :bigjoint:
You'll like this.

"Potassium soap" is literally a solution of Potassium Hydroxide, water, and olive oil (and sometimes borax). So, yes, create a solution of water and potassium hydroxide. I wouldn't say "a few drops" is enough, but you're liquid solution, which is probably 30-85%, is too concentrated. I can't tell you how much to add unless I know what percent your KOH solution is. Often times, a recipe for potassium soaps or castile soaps will use KOH flakes instead of liquids(mostly because it's easier to transport).

Check out this for a recipe: http://www.diynatural.com/how-to-make-liquid-soap-natural/
I would use that recipe, which uses 90% KOH flakes, except replace the coconut oil for more olive oil, and do not use fragrances, essential oils, or dyes when you make it.
 

outlier

Well-Known Member
You'll like this.

"Potassium soap" is literally a solution of Potassium Hydroxide, water, and olive oil (and sometimes borax). So, yes, create a solution of water and potassium hydroxide. I wouldn't say "a few drops" is enough, but you're liquid solution, which is probably 30-85%, is too concentrated. I can't tell you how much to add unless I know what percent your KOH solution is. Often times, a recipe for potassium soaps or castile soaps will use KOH flakes instead of liquids(mostly because it's easier to transport).

Check out this for a recipe: http://www.diynatural.com/how-to-make-liquid-soap-natural/
I would use that recipe, which uses 90% KOH flakes, except replace the coconut oil for more olive oil, and do not use fragrances, essential oils, or dyes when you make it.
You are a legend mate! I had an inkling that you'd know the specifics :bigjoint:

My ph up solution says it's 400g/Litre of potassium hydroxide (bottle size is 150ml). And yeah it's in liquid form. I dare say I'd be able to get some flakes from our local farm supplies if I can't use the stuff I have. I have no need for ph up anyway so I might as well use it for the soap if I can. It's only collecting dust otherwise.
 

outlier

Well-Known Member
Yes I noticed that insecticidal (potassium) soap is not THAT common in some countries. It might called something else, like Kalium Soap (Kali Seife in Germany) and you'd possibly get it from a pharmacy. You might want to check ebay, search 1st for "insecticidal soap", then potassium soap then kalium soap.

Whether potassium hydroxide would work I don't know, I personally would NOT use it. It's all about having actual soap so that you can mix the oil in (emulsion). As a last resort, something like natural soap made from natural oils, without any perfumes/colorings etc. should be available anywhere.

As said, check ebay. Where are you at?
Thanks flex! I am in Australia. I have been asking around for a while now but not a single person has any idea what I'm talking about... lol

Sounds like anyone wanting to produce their own insecticidal potassium soap here in oz would have little to no competition :bigjoint:
 

flexy123

Well-Known Member
If you check on ebay AUS, there is one vendor selling "Horticultural Potassium soap derived from Neem oil". That sure would be perfect but you'd still need to mix another Neem product in it, like Azamax or whatever. That's when making the soap yourself from potassium hydroxide would be too much work.
 

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
Monterreys mixed with azamax and a few drops of any soap works well. but that will still get expensive after a while . Avid is expensive but in the long run will be less expensive then using azamax... I'd use avid, Monterreys take down and azamax in rotation if it was me.. If you're spraying bugs though, you fucked up. Use them as preventative sprays and you shouldn't have any problems.
 

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Monterreys mixed with azamax and a few drops of any soap works well. but that will still get expensive after a while . Avid is expensive but in the long run will be less expensive then using azamax... I'd use avid, Monterreys take down and azamax in rotation if it was me.. If you're spraying bugs though, you fucked up. Use them as preventative sprays and you shouldn't have any problems.
The beauty about insecticidal soap/Neem is that it does more:
*) Washes off eggs and mites, mildew etc.
*) It actually KILLS them immediately (while Neem acts more slowly)
*) The Neem inhibits bugs' growth and keeps them off
*) It's said that Neem makes plants more resistant to bugs
*) Soap turns to fertilizer (pot ash). Some commercial growers actually do use insecticidal soap as a fertilizer
*) Not harmful in any way for plants
*) You can use the ins. soap also for general cleaning/disinfecting of your growing area or greenhouse.

This is why this is the best combo, IMHO.
 

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
The beauty about insecticidal soap/Neem is that it does more: *) Washes off eggs and mites, mildew etc. *) It actually KILLS them immediately *) The Neem inhibits bugs' growth and keeps them off *) It's said that Neem makes plants more resistant to bugs *) Soap turns to fertilizer (pot ash). Some commercial growers actually do use insecticidal as a fertilizer

This is why this is the best combo, IMHO.
Need oil works really well the trick is mixing it right.. After you add the soap or sm30 or whatever. You need to use a drill with a paint mixer attachment and mix it for at least 15 min. You can't just shake it a few times.. mixing water and oil is more difficult then most people realize. . If mixed right neem oil works wonders.
 

THE KONASSURE

Well-Known Member
spinosad or some other kind of insect killing bacteria

everyone who was in class at day one should know to use wetter

Man having spider mites is so easy would take them over thrips or rot anyday
 

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Yup, you bet! I was for a second unsure whether I actually had broad mites, so I was "happy" to find it's just the usual spidermites infestation :)
 

outlier

Well-Known Member
Why can't you just use dish soap? Like dawn.
Yeah I have just been using plain unscented dish washing liquid. I have burned plants with soap before so I use it quite sparingly. A small drop or two per litre.
Need oil works really well the trick is mixing it right.. After you add the soap or sm30 or whatever. You need to use a drill with a paint mixer attachment and mix it for at least 15 min. You can't just shake it a few times.. mixing water and oil is more difficult then most people realize. . If mixed right neem oil works wonders.
I use a 5L pump sprayer and shake it well. Maybe not with a paint mixer and for 15 mins, but for quite a while. The cold pressed neem oil I am using is like gearbox oil so it needs to be mixed well otherwise it just sits on the top of the water... lol
 

outlier

Well-Known Member
If you check on ebay AUS, there is one vendor selling "Horticultural Potassium soap derived from Neem oil". That sure would be perfect but you'd still need to mix another Neem product in it, like Azamax or whatever. That's when making the soap yourself from potassium hydroxide would be too much work.
Thanks flex! Yeah I have tons of cold pressed neem oil. Just having difficulty finding the potassium soap. I see you need quite a lot of that stuff. 25-50ml per litre means I'll need about 5-10 litres of it with the neem I have:o
 

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Yeah sorry this stuff is quite expensive in AU. Here I pay €7 for a 1L bottle or €20 for 5L. I got one bottle about 8 months ago, lol, I still have plenty left, including some left in that tiny 15ml of Aza-something (local brand). You can't get a lot of stuff in Spain, sometimes the most simple things I have to buy from Germany, UK, etc...but if you can buy *something* here in Spain it's stuff for growing, MJ seeds, Hydroculture etc. - it's amazing the amount of grow shops here. You have a village of say 2000, rest assured there will be a grow store (physical or online) that will have MJ seeds galore with 20+ seed banks and bulk seeds and everything you'd need for growing :)
 

outlier

Well-Known Member
Yeah sorry this stuff is quite expensive in AU. Here I pay €7 for a 1L bottle or €20 for 5L. I got one bottle about 8 months ago, lol, I still have plenty left, including some left in that tiny 15ml of Aza-something (local brand). You can't get a lot of stuff in Spain, sometimes the most simple things I have to buy from Germany, UK, etc...but if you can buy *something* here in Spain it's stuff for growing, MJ seeds, Hydroculture etc. - it's amazing the amount of grow shops here. You have a village of say 2000, rest assured there will be a grow store (physical or online) that will have MJ seeds galore with 20+ seed banks and bulk seeds and everything you'd need for growing :)
It's all good mate :bigjoint:
 

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
You are a legend mate! I had an inkling that you'd know the specifics :bigjoint:

My ph up solution says it's 400g/Litre of potassium hydroxide (bottle size is 150ml). And yeah it's in liquid form. I dare say I'd be able to get some flakes from our local farm supplies if I can't use the stuff I have. I have no need for ph up anyway so I might as well use it for the soap if I can. It's only collecting dust otherwise.
That is approximately a 30% solution by weight. So, adjust the recipe accordingly.
 
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