Reflectors -vs- Lenses

[PurpleBuz]

best solution is

- a wide/short reflector to push the sideways light straight down.
- coupled with a thin flat piece of high transmission glass to protect the LES. Optionally could use a slightly converging lens, for lights that need to sit far away from the canopy.


so who wants to make them ?

oh btw check out the reflector\lens combos that the junk multi spectrum Chinese cob lights use. The design is actually really good except for the choice of materials (cheap plastic reflector, and protector).

 

[speyfly]

I just got thr

I switched to reflectors and opinion has been mixed, though I would do a poll on it. I can't stock both types as the drill pattern is different for each, but I plan to keep lenses on hand for custom orders... Or should it be the other way around?

My feelings are whatever works best and in this case if we're producing light there's evidence the reflectors are best. Lenses could be desirable to foliar feeding. Any other pluses or minuses for either?

Hey Rahz, I just got through rebuilding my light using the reflectors and very happy I did.

The original light, I used 90 deg lenses and the focus was good and I had good canopy penetration but there was some light loss the sides of the lenses. In my room I have reflection on 3 sided but nothing on the front so this is where the reflectors will capture and direct more light to the plant, I think!. In a grow box or tent I think the lenses would be the best choice since most of the light would be captured and utilized by the plant.

Being new to all of this the reflectors I think are working better in my grow room, only time will tell...

 

[robincnn]

Have you got a link to this diffuser? I've looked at Ledil website and the Angelina data sheet, but can't find it.

F13671_ANGE-RZ-LENS
Page 1
https://www.rollitup.org/t/lens-and-reflector-optics-for-cob.893660/

 

[Greengenes707]

Here is a small scale test

Brand new Ledil 90*= 792µmols
2+ month old ledil after cleaning= 776µmols
New Ledil with brand new diffuser lens 728µmols
New Ledil with brand new PLC flat lens= 794µmols...I tested it over and over.

Brand new KB 80*= 763
2+ month old KB 80 after cleaning= 708µmol

Center readings at 11" from the sensors to LES with a 3070. Reflector cleaned with soapy water. Lens cleaned with soapy water, alcohol, and windex with the best results shown above, being windex.

I don't want any official conclusions from that but for me was enough to keep me on my path.


I have been getting some custom lenses. They are good. Some are great and near 100% transmittance(in test above). You might think if you can get glass that is so good why use both...why not use just the great glass in a lens form. But I still prefer reflector's more diffused distributes light vs collimated from a focusing lens for total light delivered. My lenses are for effective protection, while still relying on the reflector for the light distribution pattern.

Custom glass lens over ledil reflector...


Ledils own diffuser lens...work very well, plus cheap and lightweight.

Here are some of the Ledil RZ lenses...
http://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/ledil-rz-diffuser-lens/

Weight of glass is always an issue compared to a poly. Even with thin flat lenses like I've been using. But any kind of focus/collimation adds weight fast.

 

[Airwalker16]

Ah, I can see much better from those pics. Thanks greengene. I was under the impression that it was a bigger, flat piece of plastic with some tabs that clip onto the rim of the reflector, incasing the entire inside of the reflector walls. On your PLC lights, this would actually be cool giving the front an all flat surface. Sick.

 

[Airwalker16]

Where''s a pic of your custom lens?

 

[Airwalker16]

So you can't use the 120 degrees that fit the 120mm Holder on ChipLok holder for 3590? Only an 80, 90 degree?

 

[robincnn]

@Greengenes707 i like your custom glass cover for reflector. Benefits of reflector and protection of a lens.
I thought glass would be inert. I am not sure why the old KB80 would have less transmittance.
Infact I think glass being inert would have the benefit of not degrading over time unlike reflectors.
I will do some tests as well.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Here is a small scale test

Brand new Ledil 90*= 792µmols
2+ month old ledil after cleaning= 776µmols
New Ledil with brand new diffuser lens 728µmols
New Ledil with brand new PLC flat lens= 794µmols...I tested it over and over.

Brand new KB 80*= 763
2+ month old KB 80 after cleaning= 708µmol

Center readings at 11" from the sensors to LES with a 3070. Reflector cleaned with soapy water. Lens cleaned with soapy water, alcohol, and windex with the best results shown above, being windex.

I don't want any official conclusions from that but for me was enough to keep me on my path.


I have been getting some custom lenses. They are good. Some are great and near 100% transmittance(in test above). You might think if you can get glass that is so good why use both...why not use just the great glass in a lens form. But I still prefer reflector's more diffused distributes light vs collimated from a focusing lens for total light delivered. My lenses are for effective protection, while still relying on the reflector for the light distribution pattern.

Custom glass lens over ledil reflector...
View attachment 3619829 View attachment 3619830

Ledils own diffuser lens...work very well, plus cheap and lightweight.
View attachment 3619831
Here are some of the Ledil RZ lenses...
http://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/ledil-rz-diffuser-lens/

Weight of glass is always an issue compared to a poly. Even with thin flat lenses like I've been using. But any kind of focus/collimation adds weight fast.

I like your glass lenses, did you source them locally ?

 

[Greengenes707]

@Greengenes707 i like your custom glass cover for reflector. Benefits of reflector and protection of a lens.
I thought glass would be inert. I am not sure why the old KB80 would have less transmittance.
Infact I think glass being inert would have the benefit of not degrading unlike reflectors.
I will do some tests as well.

I don't think that the lens got worse, just is near impossible to clean. And like growmou5, many of mine came with big gauge/scratches in them I wasn't happy about.

Good glass is good glass. But the interaction with the glass surfaces with where the differences are.

 

[Airwalker16]

OMG @Greengenes707 I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THAT CLEAR GLASS IN THE PIC! I feel stupid now. Basically exactly what I explained is what you have...

 

[Airwalker16]

@Greengenes707 I'd be VERY INTERESTED in buying BJBS for 3590's, with the white Ledil reflectors and your custom glass lenses as a set of 3 pieces. Is that something that is possible soon? I currently have the 3590's on chip lok holders so if you also sell a 3 piece set of the reflector adapter, angelina, and custom glass, that'd be INCREDIBLE.

 

[robincnn]

I don't think that the lens got worse, just is near impossible to clean. And like growmou5, many of mine came with big gauge/scratches in them I wasn't happy about.

Good glass is good glass. But the interaction with the glass surfaces with where the differences are.

I have had lens with crack in the glass because I dropped it. They are hard to clean but I think in long term if proper care is taken then lens might outlast reflector as glass does not degrade.
The 120 degree Lens is not as thick. Did not have any shipping damage. Flat inside so little easier to clean. Center is not as strong as Kb80 and a little more even distribution. It is a tough debate, bare COB vs optics. Hard to convince critics so I went with a removable optics design.


I like your covered reflector design.
I saw in your data that with the PLC flat lens the PPFD increased from 792 to 794
I did a similar test to see if I put glass in front of cob will the intensity reduce. It increased to my surprise. May be even flat glass foccuses a little or just measuring error.

 

[Rahz]

What are the domes on my tasty? Lens?

Has really good spread, everything is growing straight up, very little stretch

Yes 90 degree lenses on your tasty. Your grow log is the first and farthest along that I know of, hoping things turn out well

 

[superbak3d]

Yes 90 degree lenses on your tasty. Your grow log is the first and farthest along that I know of, hoping things turn out well

She's doing fantastic. I'm about to go in a snap some pics before lights out.

But from what I've seen so far with the lens, no matter where in my tent the plant is, they never grew towards the light source, just straight up. The edges of the tent is getting just as much light as the middle. There's no "hot spot" issues, that's for sure

 

[Stephenj37826]

Here is a small scale test

Brand new Ledil 90*= 792µmols
2+ month old ledil after cleaning= 776µmols
New Ledil with brand new diffuser lens 728µmols
New Ledil with brand new PLC flat lens= 794µmols...I tested it over and over.

Brand new KB 80*= 763
2+ month old KB 80 after cleaning= 708µmol

Center readings at 11" from the sensors to LES with a 3070. Reflector cleaned with soapy water. Lens cleaned with soapy water, alcohol, and windex with the best results shown above, being windex.

I don't want any official conclusions from that but for me was enough to keep me on my path.


I have been getting some custom lenses. They are good. Some are great and near 100% transmittance(in test above). You might think if you can get glass that is so good why use both...why not use just the great glass in a lens form. But I still prefer reflector's more diffused distributes light vs collimated from a focusing lens for total light delivered. My lenses are for effective protection, while still relying on the reflector for the light distribution pattern.

Custom glass lens over ledil reflector...
View attachment 3619829 View attachment 3619830

Ledils own diffuser lens...work very well, plus cheap and lightweight.
View attachment 3619831
Here are some of the Ledil RZ lenses...
http://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/ledil-rz-diffuser-lens/

Weight of glass is always an issue compared to a poly. Even with thin flat lenses like I've been using. But any kind of focus/collimation adds weight fast.

Not trying to tell you what to do but it would be interesting to see results of cleaning with automotive glass cleaner. I consider it much better than Windex but who knows. It's worth a shot lol.

 

[kony brado]

Here is a small scale test

Brand new Ledil 90*= 792µmols
2+ month old ledil after cleaning= 776µmols
New Ledil with brand new diffuser lens 728µmols
New Ledil with brand new PLC flat lens= 794µmols...I tested it over and over.

Brand new KB 80*= 763
2+ month old KB 80 after cleaning= 708µmol

Center readings at 11" from the sensors to LES with a 3070. Reflector cleaned with soapy water. Lens cleaned with soapy water, alcohol, and windex with the best results shown above, being windex.

I don't want any official conclusions from that but for me was enough to keep me on my path.


I have been getting some custom lenses. They are good. Some are great and near 100% transmittance(in test above). You might think if you can get glass that is so good why use both...why not use just the great glass in a lens form. But I still prefer reflector's more diffused distributes light vs collimated from a focusing lens for total light delivered. My lenses are for effective protection, while still relying on the reflector for the light distribution pattern.

Custom glass lens over ledil reflector...
View attachment 3619829 View attachment 3619830

Ledils own diffuser lens...work very well, plus cheap and lightweight.
View attachment 3619831
Here are some of the Ledil RZ lenses...
http://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product/ledil-rz-diffuser-lens/

Weight of glass is always an issue compared to a poly. Even with thin flat lenses like I've been using. But any kind of focus/collimation adds weight fast.

hi @Greengenes707
How do you attach your lenses , is it with silicon ?
looks awesome man

 

[AquariusPanta]

lol @Stephenj37826

 

[flaxseedoil1000]

Are there any heat issues with a lens?

Seems like they would be more prone to trap the heat vs a reflector.

Just spitballing

 

[Airwalker16]

Are there any heat issues with a lens?

Seems like they would be more prone to trap the heat vs a reflector.

Just spitballing

Heat rises. Through the heatsink