Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL

[ttystikk]

I understand what your saying. Its the exact same thing on the other side of the argument though. Whenever people talk better this or better that this type of talk always happens. Theres going to be people wondering about the effectiveness of the cob units until it becomes main stream. I think its on its way there, but its not all over RIU. Plenty to be excited about though. If one of these companies can get into a hydro store and display, more people would start to take notice.

This is happening as you type, brother.

 

[a mongo frog]

This is happening as you type, brother.

Not where i live its not. Its going to be awesome when it does though, because fucking Cree dropped 2 bucks a fucking share this morning the last time i checked.

 

[OneHitDone]

You can get a Spectrum King 400+ from Growers House

 

[ttystikk]

You can get a Spectrum King 400+ from Growers House

You can get a lot of lights there. Some you might recognize from here on RIU.

 

[Sativied]

How something so sweet can taste so sour...

Trying to make the shortcomings of a light sound like a benefit.. is reaching, brotato.

Don't you guys have any dignity... As I've pointed out before with examples that's exactly what led fans do with led. Just as you turn an advantage of hps into a shortcomings.

You can be dicks about it, asshats or whatever pathetic pretengineering act your prefer to project, twist and turn like a bunch of kids, project your shortcomings onto me and your douchebag ad hominems...

it's all not going to change the simple facts:
The efficiency spreadsheet holy to led fans are about turnIng energy into photons. The efficiency I am talking about is about turning energy into photosynthesis. Which is why you put a light above your plants... and what a grower should care about, unless of course you are into growing epeen and care only about par light output of the cobs and drivers you tied together.

If LED would somehow turn some of that wasted energy into something that increases the effectiveness of that efficiently generated par light with 5-20% it would become part of the Bibled and mentioned in every hps comparison, just like reflector losses. But when it works against your bibled info you guys get downright desparate.

Lol, you don't give up very easily do you? Kudos to you, even if we support different lighting methods.

More noise, no arguments. There's nothing to give up or not. Tell that to the ledfans posting par w efficiency numbers. Just pointing out the facts, not my problem if people insist on being so goddamn ignorant.

The second assumption in your reply is also incorrect, I don't support a specific lighting method, unlike for you I don't have a personal preference, I support using one's brain to make objective decisions based on accurate and complete info. Have discussions based on valid arguments and not biased dumb shit. When you do that when comparing led vs hps, the best choice can still be either depending on the circumstances.


All these ignorant douchbag replies make it even more absurd greengenes said "plant science" earlier in this thread. You are discussing light output, I'm talking about what the plant does with it. Intellectually dishonest bunch of sekt members...

A significant increase in rate of photosynthesis is dismissed based on nothing but invalid arguments and immature nonsense.... If some of that energy heating up heatsinks and being directed away from the canopy could instead be used to boost the rate of photosynthesis with 5-20% you'd be all over it. Yes. Exactly.


For the non-led fans getting misleaded by the nonsense replies: next time you see a comparison between hps and led and someone subtracts reflector losses from the hps, know that that loss is made up by the fact hps raises leaf temp and increases rate of photosynthesis by a similar amount. Won't make hps more energy efficient than led of course, but all the math you see in this forum is incomplete led logic and does not reflect reality. Not even close.

I'd like to see the research from S. Chandra you're referencing specifically. Your first source isn't doing you any favors so I'd like to see what conclusions you're drawing from the other paper. Sounds interesting.

I have more thoughts, but you'll just disregard them so I won't post them.

Such a empty statement again with nothing to back it up. Of course I disregard such childish unfounded nonsense clearly projecting your own flaws. It's as if you still got functioning braincells trying to break free from your dogma. I am the one pointing out a fact which you disregard with nonsense replies. Which I take the time to refute once again.

Stop acting stupid, read my posts again, try comprehensive reading and realize you can't omit words from my text and still pretend it's something I said. I tend to be very specific and nuanced, something you led folks shoud learn. Read the research I mentioned and linked to (see 1k per m2 thread if needed, key part is the ppf, temp. Pn (rate of photosynthesis) graph). Then read my posts twice again, and if you then still don't get it, I'm definitely not interested in your irrelevant thoughts. Nobody, not even the fail trolls, are that stupid they can't understand it. Ya'll just acting stupid, shamelessly, which does not mean I'm obliged to refute every single bit of nonsense posted.

Again, as much as people try to obfuscate it or attack an imaginary character behind the factual arguments, it is quite simple. Led fans disregard the IR portion of the hps light because it does not fall in the par range, however, it does increase the effectiveness of the light that does fall in the par range, and hence should no be disregarded.


Sigh... starting to get urges to post Idiocracy memes again...

How about some photosynthesis rate spreadsheets for different types of lighting, including the relevant parameters of the light sources... I cannot be amazed any further by your collective desire to remain ignorant, but I know you all like them spreadsheets lol. Sativied's Spreadsheets will reflect reality a lot closer than Supras, but undoubtedly you will disregard those too.

We can all agree gpw is a poor means to compare different types of light. The g is heavily dependent on other factors not determined by the light source. What matters a lot more is photosynthesis per watt, as photosynthesis is why you turn on the light. It's absurd you guys are fighting me on this. As I pointed out earlier in this thread all you got is energy efficiency from running cobs soft, from which you derive everything else. I pointed out the fact it is not that simple, whether you like it or disregard it is not my problem... As I mentioned more than once before, you'd be fired on the spot in a professional setting if you deny scientific facts and logic so blatantly as you do here.

@Rahz: that 1 par w = 4 gram depends amongst others on temp, and since hid produces that IR light with the watts not used for par, it - under typical circumstances not including hot summers and desert climates - increases the effectiveness of that par watt (see the original chart still including the temps). If 1 par w from led is 4 gram, 1 par w from hps can be up to 5gram solely for coming from a hps instead of led, all external factors else being equal.

 

[Rahz]

@Rahz: that 1 par w = 4 gram depends amongst others on temp, and since hid produces that IR light with the watts not used for par, it - under typical circumstances not including hot summers and desert climates - increases the effectiveness of that par watt (see the original chart still including the temps). If 1 par w from led is 4 gram, 1 par w from hps can be up to 5gram solely for coming from a hps instead of led, all external factors else being equal.

You seem to be suggesting the use of AC is uncommon when using HID.

You also seem to be suggesting people using HID should be getting over 2 grams per watt.

 

[bicit]

cut

Sir all I did was ask you for a link to a source that you referenced. I posted no dogma, or anything other than 'interesting' implying that I would like to read the paper and understand your argument properly before replying.

So stop putting words into my mouth and please provide either a title or link to the specific paper you're referencing.

 

[ttystikk]

You seem to be suggesting the use of AC is uncommon when using HID.

You also seem to be suggesting people using HID should be getting over 2 grams per watt.

I'm running 5400W of COB LED and it does require HVAC, just nowhere near as much.

 

[AquariusPanta]

@Sativied

What's at stake here for you?

 

[a mongo frog]

@Sativied

What's at stake here for you?

Probably the same thing as you. Gardening education and money.

 

[ttystikk]

Probably the same thing as you. Gardening education and money.

That's what I'm in it for- and if I'm very fortunate and I work hard, perhaps a comfortable retirement.

 

[cdgmoney250]

How something so sweet can taste so sour...

It sounds like you are the one who is salty.

Name calling and demeaning people over different light sources.....

And the really sad part, is that you have proven every LED proponents side of the arguement with every link you provided, and still missed the point of the whole article. The authors were even advocating LED use over conventional lights, being as they are "more efficient".

Oh yeah.. and this article you linked....

"Analysis of Environmental Effects on Leaf Temperature under Sunlight, HPS, LED"
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0138930


The different light sources used for the comparison were a Philips HPS bulb and.....RED/BLUE LED lights......

Most of us LED gardeners are believers in white light for plant growth. We use COB LED to give a much fuller spectrum while putting out more radiant intensity (inherently raising leaf temps) than monochromatic LED diodes. Which are old school, outdated disco lights.

Now on to radiation and leaf temps...

So as it turns out.. ANY amount of electromagnetic radiation can be turned into heat when absorbed by a surface. Including the VISIBLE spectrum.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mod3.html

LED can easily raise leaf temps to match those under HPS lights, with a slight adjustement of ambient temperature. Which according to you, and the study you linked, is a difference of only 2-3 deg F (1.3 C), under typical growroom conditions.

I know this because your study says so, and I've personally tested it.

Nobody is saying that IR doesn't increase leaf temps and possibly photosynthesis.
But traditional HID lights produce more IR than VIS light.
Plants grow under VIS light, not IR.
That is what is meant by "inneficient".

LEDs can produce much more VIS light than IR.
Again... plants grow under VIS light.
Leaf temps can easily be manipulated.


If you want to be so willfully ignorant to obvious facts, then go for it.
Don't buy an LED.
Keep using HID until they just stop making 'em, for all anybody cares.

Just thought I'd share how wrong you were/are/will continue to be on the subject.

 

[ttystikk]

It sounds like you are the one who is salty.

Name calling and demeaning people over different light sources.....

And the really sad part, is that you have proven every LED proponents side of the arguement with every link you provided, and still missed the point of the whole article. The authors were even advocating LED use over conventional lights, being as they are "more efficient".

Oh yeah.. and this article you linked....

"Analysis of Environmental Effects on Leaf Temperature under Sunlight, HPS, LED"
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0138930


The different light sources used for the comparison were a Philips HPS bulb and.....RED/BLUE LED lights......

Most of us LED gardeners are believers in white light for plant growth. We use COB LED to give a much fuller spectrum while putting out more radiant intensity (inherently raising leaf temps) than monochromatic LED diodes. Which are old school, outdated disco lights.

Now on to radiation and leaf temps...

So as it turns out.. ANY amount of electromagnetic radiation can be turned into heat when absorbed by a surface. Including the VISIBLE spectrum.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mod3.html

LED can easily raise leaf temps to match those under HPS lights, with a slight adjustement of ambient temperature. Which according to you, and the study you linked, is a difference of only 2-3 deg F (1.3 C), under typical growroom conditions.

I know this because your study says so, and I've personally tested it.

Nobody is saying that IR doesn't increase leaf temps and possibly photosynthesis.
But traditional HID lights produce more IR than VIS light.
Plants grow under VIS light, not IR.
That is what is meant by "inneficient".

LEDs can produce much more VIS light than IR.
Again... plants grow under VIS light.
Leaf temps can easily be manipulated.


If you want to be so willfully ignorant to obvious facts, then go for it.
Don't buy an LED.
Keep using HID until they just stop making 'em, for all anybody cares.

Just thought I'd share how wrong you were/are/will continue to be on the subject.

He's been bashing COB LED since the day I stated looking into them.

Now I have a world class lighting array hard at work producing for me.

What does he have? Negative credibility.

 

[chuck estevez]

He's been bashing COB LED since the day I stated looking into them.

Now I have a world class lighting array hard at work producing for me.

What does he have? Negative credibility.

pics?

 

[dandyrandy]

I only have a kW of 3590's. 16 I don't want to move enough air to cool hid. So ~100cfm or less cools it all. In fact this winter I had tons of purple. Dank

 

[a mongo frog]

I only have a kW of 3590's. 16 I don't want to move enough air to cool hid. So ~100cfm or less cools it all. In fact this winter I had tons of purple. Dank

Not sure what you mean. Can we see some of your dank?

 

[dandyrandy]

It's on one of my threads. Look up retirement present. How do you cool an 11sq ft room with 100 cfm or less air flow with hid?

 

[a mongo frog]

It's on one of my threads. Look up retirement present. How do you cool an 11sq ft room with 100 cfm or less air flow with hid?

I would bring in fresh air and run in the evening. And thanks ill try to find your thread for those bud shots.

 

[skunkd0c]

I have a world class lighting array hard at work producing for me.

Dam .. i need to see light 2 sounds phenomenal

 

[bicit]

Dam .. i need to see light 2 sounds phenomenal

View attachment 3626482

Doesn't even come close to that level of engineering..... Man that's a new level to aspire too.