Wha do you guys add to R/O water?

[Resinhound]

Hmm its cut and paste day for me..lol.But I foumd this info on cation uptake that was interesting.

For many years, there have been a few people who claim that there is an "Ideal" ratio of the three principal soil cation nutrients (K, Ca, and Mg). This concept probably originated from New Jersey work by Bear in 1945 that projected an ideal soil as one that had the following saturations of exchangeable cations 65% Ca, 10% Mg, 5% K, and 20% H. The cation ratios resulting from these idealizes concentrations are a Ca:Mg of 6.5:1, Ca:K of 13:1, and Mg:K of 2:1.

It is generally accepted that there are some preferred general relationships and balances between soil nutrients. There is also a significant amount of work indicating that excesses and shortages of some nutrients will affect the uptake of other nutrients (see later sections of this paper). However, no reliable research has indicated that there is any particular soil ratio of nutrients.

Over the years, a significant amount of conversation and salesmanship has revolved aroung the concept of the ideal soil Ca:Mg ratio. Most of the claims for the ideal ratio range between 5:1 and 8:1.

Some of the claims are that the correct soil Ca:Mg ratio will

• Improve soil structure.
• Reduce weed populations, especially foxtail and quackgrass, plus improve forage quality.
• Reduce leaching of other plant nutrients.
• Generally improve the balance of most soil nutrients.

According to Dr. Stanley Barber, Purdue Univ., "There is no research justification for the added expense of obtaining a definite Ca:Mg ratio in the soilResearch indicates that plant yield or quality is not appreciably affected over a wide range of Ca:Mg ratios in the soil."

Wisconsin research found that yields of corn and alfalfa were not significantly affected by Ca:Mg ratios ranging from 2.28:1 to 8.44:1in all cases, when neither nutrient was deficient, the crops internal Ca:Mg ratio was maintained within a relatively narrow range consistent with the needs of the plant. These findings are supported by most other authorities. A soil with the previously listed ratios would most likely be fertile. However, this does not mean that a fertile soil requires these specific values (or any other). Adequate crop nutrition is dependent on many factors other than a specific ratio of nutrients. It will rarely be profitable to adjust the soil Ca:Mg ratio.

In later sections of this paper, you will find references to nutrient ratios. However, in most cases there will not be specific numerical ratios associated with these relationships. The intention is to indicate that as the relative abundance of the nutrients changes significantly, it could affect the availability of the other nutrient. This concept is much less specific than claiming that there is a value to a specific numerical ratio.

High Response Crops
While Ca is an essential element for all plants, the following crops have been found to be especially responsive.

apples, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, cherries, citrus, conifers, cotton, curcurbits, melons, grapes, legumes, lettuce, peaches, peanuts, pears, peppers, potatoes, tobacco, and tomatoes.

 

[Resinhound]

Honestly op I wish I had your tap water,id just add epsom salts and be coco ready..

 

[Resinhound]

Left turning glycine amino acids with fulvic acid.....natures ultimate shuttle bus for hard to absorb calcium and other minerals. Kelp extracts are loaded with aminos. Thats why kelp and fulvic is like peanut butter and jelly for plants. They pair up together real nice. Eddha chelates for wonky stubborn iron.

Ya im considering adding them,it seems better than either alone.

 

[2ANONYMOUS]

you add plant food because RO water has nothing lol for what its worth unless you know the strain and are that tight into knowing what plants use for food i would not even bother with RO Crap ass seen from all over the internet journals nothng but plant issues
But i really like to bring up is the ppm in tap water that everyone is so concerned about and the fucking myths that has run wild ever since the invention of a EC or ppm meter
90 percent of the ppm or EC in your tap water means nothing absolutely nothing plants cannot use any of it or absorb any of it
there fore its a moot point
Seriously if a person is getting 300 - 500 ppm of tap water woo hoo no need to buy plant food right llol
i mean give it a try for those with high ppm in tap water just feed it water and see for your self how fast plants will deteriorate or starve from lack of plant food or actual nutrients i guarntee you within 2 - 3 weeks from rooted clone only feeding it high ppm tap water she will be def as fuck

 

[since1991]

Personally i think r.o. water is way overused. People with really nice tap at say 250 or lower feel the need for an r.o. and run into all kinds of problems. Namely ph. It can swing all over the place without that buffer in there. Even at higher ec i would use a hard water nitrient before r.o. My tap is at 110 ppm or 0.2 and i add about 50 ppm of calmag with certain varieties of mine that need it. Carbonates do get aborbed obviously but not very well at all. Especially coco coir growers....leave that tap water alone unless its completely crazy high.

 

[kmog33]

Personally i think r.o. water is way overused. People with really nice tap at say 250 or lower feel the need for an r.o. and run into all kinds of problems. Namely ph. It can swing all over the place without that buffer in there. Even at higher ec i would use a hard water nitrient before r.o. My tap is at 110 ppm or 0.2 and i add about 50 ppm of calmag with certain varieties of mine that need it. Carbonates do get aborbed obviously but not very well at all. Especially coco coir growers....leave that tap water alone unless its completely crazy high.

I think my tap comes out between 160-330ppm and I don't do ro or ph. Ime, messing around too much with anything in your water causes problems. I'm also running dwc and have a calmag by use it maybe once a cycle depending on if the plants look like they need it. But almost never.

When I did use an ro I had to go out of my way to avoid deficiencies I never had using tap water. So I swapped back. Ime you can add whatever crazy bs you want and will still yield less than the grower using only a two part and tap water that just understands the plants needs better than you lol. All these additives and tricks are for growers that don't know how to properly care for their plants.

Don't get me wrong, almost every grower I know has some secret sauce/trick they use during flower to increase production. Sometimes it just has to do with training the plant a specific way because they know the strain, or using a very specific additive for a very specific reason at a very specific time because they know it works from experience. My Tahoe og really likes an insanely high amount of p during flower, but if i give it the same ratio of k when it needs high p, I get problems. So when I run that strain I add a nutrient that literally only boosts p, but I don't do that with every strain I run, only the one I know needs it from experience growing that particular strain.


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[since1991]

Training my crops canopy prior to and sometimes during the onset of flowering has given me greater yields than any nutrient additive ever could.

 

[Craig1969SS]

Cal mag substitutes have created more problems than they have ever solved. RO water with 0 ppm would be a nightmare to stabilize. Going from a high ppm from the tap down to 10ppm is ideal. Coco and dwc type hydroponics respond great to RO waters stability. High ppm tap will no doubt migrate back from attempting to stabilize a pH and when u add nutrients the pH takes a long while to settle down. Readings are always different the next morning. Acid acid shit more acid again? 5cc of acid to 1 gal to get 5.8 in tap vs a few drops in RO water to nail 5.8 ..and stay there too. I'd never go back to tap in hydro, no way. If you're nutrient contains calcium and magnesium why add it again?

 

[outlier]

you add plant food because RO water has nothing lol for what its worth unless you know the strain and are that tight into knowing what plants use for food i would not even bother with RO Crap ass seen from all over the internet journals nothng but plant issues
But i really like to bring up is the ppm in tap water that everyone is so concerned about and the fucking myths that has run wild ever since the invention of a EC or ppm meter
90 percent of the ppm or EC in your tap water means nothing absolutely nothing plants cannot use any of it or absorb any of it
there fore its a moot point
Seriously if a person is getting 300 - 500 ppm of tap water woo hoo no need to buy plant food right llol
i mean give it a try for those with high ppm in tap water just feed it water and see for your self how fast plants will deteriorate or starve from lack of plant food or actual nutrients i guarntee you within 2 - 3 weeks from rooted clone only feeding it high ppm tap water she will be def as fuck

It's not about the ppm/ec readings. It's what makes up those parts per million. Only a lab analysis will tell you that. And the result is going to vary significantly from catchment to catchment.

Cal mag substitutes have created more problems than they have ever solved. RO water with 0 ppm would be a nightmare to stabilize. Going from a high ppm from the tap down to 10ppm is ideal. Coco and dwc type hydroponics respond great to RO waters stability. High ppm tap will no doubt migrate back from attempting to stabilize a pH and when u add nutrients the pH takes a long while to settle down. Readings are always different the next morning. Acid acid shit more acid again? 5cc of acid to 1 gal to get 5.8 in tap vs a few drops in RO water to nail 5.8 ..and stay there too. I'd never go back to tap in hydro, no way. If you're nutrient contains calcium and magnesium why add it again?

Absolutely. I find I need 0.5ml per gal every now and then in the coco I am using. 1/4 of the minimum recommended dose on the bottle.

My tap water is 0ppm, ph 7 rainwater (unfiltered). I have a concrete tank with 16ppm and > 10 ph. I add a bit of this to my clean water for the ph buffer. Works extremely well

 

[kmog33]

Training my crops canopy prior to and sometimes during the onset of flowering has given me greater yields than any nutrient additive ever could.

Yep. It's really strain dependent though I've run some that don't do training/topping well. Most of getting the most of of any space is knowing how to utilize it best for the plants you're growing. That's why so many cool types of growing like sog, scrogg and vert have developed. And why they keep continuing to get better lol. I hate seeing all these new growers waste so much money on additives and co2 and all that shit when they're time and money would be better spent just getting the basics down. Like, why add all this shit when you can't even get your plants to grow right without them.

Co2 is the worst IMO because it does actually work insanely well when it's utilized correctly/properly. But just sticking a co2 gen or bottle in your grow room won't do anything but hurt your grow if you don't know how to use it/how it works. And that's what I see these new growers doing most of the time. You should have to have a certain amount of experience before anywhere will sell you all these additives lol. Like Pokemon badges, gotta gain that experience before you can mess with higher level shit. Haha.


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[2ANONYMOUS]

It's not about the ppm/ec readings. It's what makes up those parts per million. Only a lab analysis will tell you that. And the result is going to vary significantly from catchment to catchment.

Absolutely. I find I need 0.5ml per gal every now and then in the coco I am using. 1/4 of the minimum recommended dose on the bottle.

My tap water is 0ppm, ph 7 rainwater (unfiltered). I have a concrete tank with 16ppm and > 10 ph. I add a bit of this to my clean water for the ph buffer. Works extremely well

well of course lab results will tell you what is in it but the fact remains is that the pants cannot uptake the ppm
In hydroponics its not about the ppm in tap water giving them problems its the ph fluctuations that occur from using tap water sometimes for the good and in some cases for the bad
Also there becomes a issue of some live organisms that are in tap water or bad bacteria although clorinated water does kill and disinfect it does not kill all bacteria and we all know what bactera can do to closed loop hydro grows

 

[2ANONYMOUS]

Also the main reason people i think use RO water is to not have chlorine But again contrary to popular belief
Chlorine is a essential element for plant growth its rather really important
and yes even with my no till grows and garden grows i always will give them a treat from tap water instead of always using rain water

Chlorine is actually one of the more plentiful elements on the entire planet. It is found all around us, abundant in soils, minerals, plants and even animals. Seawater is a major collector of dissolved Chlorine. It gathers Chlorine from corroded elements that are transported from, the continents by rivers.

But, how long have we known about this wonder element? Chlorine (Cl) was discovered in 1774, just two years prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It was discovered when a pharmacist from Sweden released just a few drops of hydrochloric acid on a piece of manganese. When he did this, there was a greenish-yellow gas that was released and chlorine was discovered. The strange gas wasn’t identified as chlorine until 1810, but that was the original discovery of the chlorine gas.

Chlorine has a number of benefits to plant growth. Many people make the common mistake of mixing up the plant nutrient chloride (Cl-) with the toxic form chlorine (Cl). Chloride is vital for many different plant functions, despite only being classified as a micronutrient. It is highly essential, combined with the element potassium (K+), for the proper function of the plants stomatal openings. Through the utilization of these two elements, the plant is able to control its internal water balance.

That is not the only role which chloride plays in plants. It also plays a very important part in photosynthesis, particularly in helping to control the hydrolysis process. It also aids in the process of cation balance as well as the transport of ions and nutrients throughout the plant system. There is even some research that shows Cl can lessen the effects of fungal infections in a way that hasn’t yet been defined. Research continues to be done on the role of chloride in plant growth. Some people speculate that Cl actually competes with nitrate uptake tending to promote the use of ammonium nitrate. This could explain the possible role that Cl takes in the suppression of some plant diseases because high plant nitrates have a strong association with the seriousness of plant diseases. The higher the amount of nitrates, the more likely that plant disease could be expected to be.

A majority of soil Cl is extremely soluble and found in the soil as the chloride anion. In that form it is extremely mobile except where it is held by soil anion exchange sites. One major factor that can affect how much Cl is available for the plant to uptake. As chloride, nitrate, sulfate, boron and molybdenum are all anions, as one is found in excess, there is less available of the other. If chloride levels in a plant are too high, there is a possibility of toxicity. Some of the signs and symptoms that accompany chloride toxicity are very similar to the problems associated with salt damage. The sizes of the leaves could be smaller in diameter but thicker. Plant growth is stunted, the margins between leaves becomes scorched.

Stubby roots, wilting, yellowing in the leaves or a bronzing are just some of the signs of a lower level of Cl. In order to combat Cl deficiencies and diseases or problems that are caused with insufficient Cl, check out the Nutrition Solutions offered by Dyna-Gro (Grow, Foliage-Pro, Bloom). This complete nutrient solution is one possible way, once you have discovered that you have a low level of Cl in your plants, to restore the balance.

 

[517BlckBerry]

So I take it most people have PPMs around 200-300 for tap? So Lucky. My tap is horrible. 500ppm is the low number, PH is always high, not to mention the all around taste and quality is horrible... I buy my water from a local water store. They pump it from a well. PPM around 100 it's perfect. I am curious about this Chlorine though. Never knew much about it being needed in plants. However with that being said, my store bought water with FF nutes/FFOF soil works just fine with no def. Especially since I started adding some Michigan Medical Soil. Shits amazing!!
I live by Flint where the water is giving kids brain damage. Using it is no option

 

[outlier]

...the fact remains is that the pants cannot uptake the ppm...

Is that scientific fact or RIU stoner science fact? Source?

 

[jijiandfarmgang]

Haifa Calcium Nitrate
Haifa Magnesium Sulfate

3:1 I think.....I'd have to check my notes

- Jiji

 

[2ANONYMOUS]

Is that scientific fact or RIU stoner science fact? Source?

I tell you something i probably have lost more weed then most will ever grow in there entire life with 40 years of growing background lets just say its FACTS
Calcium and magnesium are also the most abundant minerals in tap water. The majority of the PPM, or EC reading, you obtain from a measuring device is cal-mag. The most typical form of these minerals in your untreated water is calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. Unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, these forms are virtually unusable by plants, especially fast growing plants. The molecules of these compounds are far too large and immobile to be absorbed by the roots and transported to where the plant needs them. Relying on the cal-mag in tap water can lead to many problems
ok so just think you learnt something today

 

[since1991]

So I take it most people have PPMs around 200-300 for tap? So Lucky. My tap is horrible. 500ppm is the low number, PH is always high, not to mention the all around taste and quality is horrible... I buy my water from a local water store. They pump it from a well. PPM around 100 it's perfect. I am curious about this Chlorine though. Never knew much about it being needed in plants. However with that being said, my store bought water with FF nutes/FFOF soil works just fine with no def. Especially since I started adding some Michigan Medical Soil. Shits amazing!!
I live by Flint where the water is giving kids brain damage. Using it is no option

I live in Mt Morris twp. Thank God we never switched and stayed with Detroit water. Consistent 110 ppm (0.2ec) at 7.5 pH. Perfect for whatever i add. My calmag hungry Chem4 og i keep on its own 25 gallon trash can res and drip manifold. I bump this up to about 180ppm total using 70 ppm of calmag before adding Ionic Bloom 3-2-6 at about 700- 750 more ppm. The other 3 tanks are for the other strains and they rock without extra calmag. I drop all pH down to 5.7 and let it drift up on its own....it seems to top out at 6.1 - 6.2 just before tank change out refill and reset. Its all about the varieties in my experience. They truly are unique in what they like and dont like....and they will tell you loud and clear.

 

[outlier]

ok so just think you learnt something today

Oh really? And what might that be?

 

[since1991]

Assuming things on riu can turn out rough. Believe me...lol.

 

[since1991]

Hemp and cannabis are well known and very efficient "accumulator" plants for toxic ground leaching and heavy metals. I wonder if Flint growers (there quite a few) are doing much about the lead in the tap water they are feeding to the crops? I wonder if that lead trace will end up in final product? Sorry this is off topic.....iam baked... getting ready for bed and my thoughts are rambling.