do c02 levels need to come down during night hours (while flowering)

[ttystikk]

I guess it depends on the particular situation. For most sealed rooms ive built and came across...hooking the dehuey and mini split up to a controller with relays was a no go. For bigger rooms or areas this could be different. For bigger rooms big hvac units could fare differently.

The answer to that problem is water cooling. Two ton water cooled air handlers are less than five hundred bones. The chiller, scaled up to something your HVAC tech will take seriously, can go anywhere a pair of water lines can reach.

 

[ttystikk]

While chillers aren't the answer to every HVAC problem, minisplits aren't, either.

I'm not trying to start a shitstorm, only pointing out that different situations allow for different approaches, each with its own package of advantages and drawbacks.

 

[since1991]

I'll be honest...i do not have much experience at all with water chillers. And water cooled conditioning. I know mini splits like the back of my hand though. The whole concept behind cold water for grow rooms kinda turned me off before i even gave it a chance. Stuck in my ways i guess. If anyone out there can enlighten me....feel free.

 

[ttystikk]

I'll be honest...i do not have much experience at all with water chillers. And water cooled conditioning. I know mini splits like the back of my hand though. The whole concept behind cold water for grow rooms kinda turned me off before i even gave it a chance. Stuck in my ways i guess. If anyone out there can enlighten me....feel free.

Me. Water is an ideal heat transfer fluid because it's very dense, can't be heated with compression, and it's basically free.

Running all the water lines is a chore- once- but the advantages make it well worthwhile. You can use one chiller to cool multiple systems, even several spaces. If you run two bloomrooms on a flip schedule, the unit will cool them both automatically, saving the need to buy additional capacity.

If you like RDWC, you need water chilling to keep the roots cool. The same water cooling system can supply a cooling coil wherever you need one.

Water cooled air handlers combine room air cooling with dehumidification in one unit that isn't constantly fighting with itself. This saves a shocking amount of power compared to the standard practice of running a compressor based dehumidification unit against an AC unit! And, it delivers more fresh condensate water every day than I can use!

If the homeowner or facility designer chooses a heat pump, then the savings opportunities multiply; all that rejected 'waste' heat can now be recycled for building heat, warming heat in growrooms, domestic hot water heating... I'm even going to try to heat my hot tub!

To recap, water based HVAC isn't for temporary installations, but it saves money by moving heat efficiently from places it's unwanted to places it's welcome. The larger the scale, the better it works and frankly, the less practical other approaches become.

 

[WestDenverPioneer]

I agree with both of you (ttystick and 1991) depending on the grow.
It's going to depend on the size of the setup. A smaller the setup can use separate controllers or built-in thermostats. A larger grow would benefit from relays and all-in-one controllers.

ANY piece of equipment can fail. We've all experienced a "small" item having a "big" impact in one way or another. I like to build in redundancy for the important things. That's why I sit on the fence of both ttystick and 1991 and use controllers and/with individual built-in items as well for a backup.

 

[ttystikk]

Right now, the backup for my heat pump is the chiller it replaced... and because it's now officially the winter growing season, I can hook up my homemade compressorless chiller. That will save me money the whole time it's running and when it's freezing out can handle THREE Tons of cooling by itself, while pulling just forty watts for the box fan! Ain't no AC unit pulling shenanigans like that!

 

[Abucks]

Thats awesome bro!!! Congrats on the sealed room. No tricks really, just make sure you can control your rh during the lights off period. I too do the last to weeks at 350, however I'm at 900ppm from week one till then. As far as how its been going, co2 enrichment is a whole other world. Explosive growth, bigger yields, everything you've heard is true. It did take me a few runs and many sleepless nights to dial it in though.

Agreed! Most people just throw co2 into a room with out any adjustments to, temp, humidity, nutes, and increased water consumption. Then they sit back and wonder why nothing changed or everything is all f:$&@ up. In my experience, every strain has different requirements when augmented with co2. Once you dial it in, you'll never go back!

 

[bravedave]

Going back to earlier...

Huh? No co2 for vegging huh? Are you sure about that buddy? No its not needed but its not in flowering either for that matter (unless running a super sealed room). Have you ever properly supplemented carbon dioxide on plants under a vegetation light schedule???????? I have and it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VEG

While not doubting your experience...I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg. And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...I have not really seen a difference in veg results or time in comparison to my non-winter grows even though the rate of room air replenishment was 48 to 1. On the double digit below zero days they often only got new air if or when I opened the door and slid in and out.
My bud sites seem to be based on my plants and their training...not the amount of CO2 around.

 

[Budley Doright]

Going back to earlier...

While not doubting your experience...I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg. And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...I have not really seen a difference in veg results or time in comparison to my non-winter grows even though the rate of room air replenishment was 48 to 1. On the double digit below zero days they often only got new air if or when I opened the door and slid in and out.
My bud sites seem to be based on my plants and their training...not the amount of CO2 around.

Well perhaps if you ran CO2 you might see an even better growth rate. It's actually a proven method of crop yield increase but yes there is more involved than throwing a tank in your room and opening a valve, tried it lol. Didn't work out to well lol.

 

[bravedave]

Well perhaps if you ran CO2 you might see an even better growth rate. It's actually a proven method of crop yield increase but yes there is more involved than throwing a tank in your room and opening a valve, tried it lol. Didn't work out to well lol.

I would if I had a sealed room, but mine are growing just fine, as is.

 

[Budley Doright]

I would if I had a sealed room, but mine are growing just fine, as is.

Yup so are mine lol. I have everything sitting in a box to run it but the sealed room is the deal breaker for me. I would need cooling and just don't have the power to do do that in my garden shed . If I was doing this for financial gain then yup perhaps.

 

[WestDenverPioneer]

I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg.

What ppm of CO2 are you starting with?
What ppm of CO2 are you comparing it to?
What ppm of CO2 are you considering "not much CO2"
What is your definition of "produce a successful veg"? (Just because you see plant material you've reached your goal?)
Did you observe any changes in the distances between the nodes on plants with CO2 supplementation vs. those that were left alone?
What was the weight difference between the two at harvest?

And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...

That was me 25 years ago.... give it more time and you'll figure many things out. CO2 supplementation requires more than just adding CO2.
CO2 acts like nitrous does to a gas engine. If you don't have the entire system dialed in you will melt your engine. It takes more than one component to do it. And, adding one part can change an entire system.

 

[bravedave]

What ppm of CO2 are you starting with?
What ppm of CO2 are you comparing it to?
What ppm of CO2 are you considering "not much CO2"
What is your definition of "produce a successful veg"? (Just because you see plant material you've reached your goal?)
Did you observe any changes in the distances between the nodes on plants with CO2 supplementation vs. those that were left alone?
What was the weight difference between the two at harvest?



That was me 25 years ago.... give it more time and you'll figure many things out. CO2 supplementation requires more than just adding CO2.
CO2 acts like nitrous does to a gas engine. If you don't have the entire system dialed in you will melt your engine. It takes more than one component to do it. And, adding one part can change an entire system.

Back up and read what I wrote. No where do I discount CO2's validity. Just pointing out that vegging plants certainly will survive just fine in a grow room that only has its air replenished a few times a week...or am I not to believe what I witnessed? I did not measure node distance, then again nothing was out of the ordinary.

I threw my experience out there for someone else who might have a similar situation (intake air temps well below ZERO)

You wanna add CO2, knock yourself out.

 

[jafro daweedhound]

From everything I have researched I agree with 1991 co2 is most important during veg daylight hours with high heat 85 to 95 degrees. Without the heat the 1100-1500 ppm of co2 is useless from what I've researched. Is that true 1991?

Plant growth = uptake/intake - evaporation

85-95 degrees is higher than optimum for maximum plant growth - 70 - 80 degrees from my experience is more productive.

If everything is fine tuned to the optimum for your stain(s), then Co2 can help raise your yield and veg time is no different. Its like compound interest - if you can gain an extra 10% growth each week then the math says you would double the size of your crop after seven weeks.... to bad math don't grow herb......

 

[Budley Doright]

Plant growth = uptake/intake - evaporation

85-95 degrees is higher than optimum for maximum plant growth - 70 - 80 degrees from my experience is more productive.

If everything is fine tuned to the optimum for your stain(s), then Co2 can help raise your yield and veg time is no different. Its like compound interest - if you can gain an extra 10% growth each week then the math says you would double the size of your crop after seven weeks.... to bad math don't grow herb......

Would that extra 10% not equal shorter veg time? Just thinking if it's that much bigger quicker could you not throw it to 12/12 sooner?

 

[jafro daweedhound]

Would that extra 10% not equal shorter veg time? Just thinking if it's that much bigger quicker could you not throw it to 12/12 sooner?

Shorter veg time (fewer total hours to reach target size) would be one outcome, Other outcome (space permitting ) would be bigger plants over regular length of veg growth time.


Bigger, faster, happier - got to love Co2. Everything needs to be fine tuned to really see the benefits of Co2, but once achieved the difference in growth rates, size, density, will be well worth the effort. an added benefit will be the increase in turpenne and essential oil production. Thats what separates good buds from the best buds........ but please don't tell anyone......

Happy growing

 

[WestDenverPioneer]

You wanna add CO2, knock yourself out.

That's a funny one because there's plenty of people that run CO2 without the proper equipment. Levels reach so high that they passssssss... out. So yeah... go run co2 and knock yourself out

math don't grow herb......

Grammar don't, but math sure as hell does.

Thats what separates good buds from the best buds

No. It's math. Math does.

but please don't tell anyone......

I just did....

Happy growing

2 + 2 =

 

[ttystikk]

That's a funny one because there's plenty of people that run CO2 without the proper equipment. Levels reach so high that they passssssss... out. So yeah... go run co2 and knock yourself out



Grammar don't, but math sure as hell does.



No. It's math. Math does.



I just did....




2 + 2 =

Math grows buds big, boss!

 

[powerslide]

Whats a good stand alone digital co2 ppm controller/sniffer?

 

[DemonTrich]

Blueprint bdac2 ftmfw!!!!