The end of LED is nigh. Incandescent will rise again.

Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
My prediction is that those selling cob fixtures right now had better enjoy the cob wave while it lasts.
If/when the led makers start focusing on plant specific cobs I see the companies making the chips using them in their own fixtures or specific "authorized dealers" only.
Only the big boys will be in the main arena
Click to expand...

Shew sure glad Cree has invited me to tour a partner factory for our future fixture.........
 
G

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
The difference is with LED you actually have a choice and then choose for suboptimal.

Never seen those mercury vapor lamps in the streets, these are definitely leds. In urban areas they are white and bright as fuck. Can be hurtful on the eyes, this pic is actually from an article where people complained about the brightness:
View attachment 3636810

These will be blurple some day:
View attachment 3636811

Many already are:
View attachment 3636814
View attachment 3636817


This was a test run that made the news because people were like wtf is all that purple light...
View attachment 3636822

View attachment 3636821

View attachment 3636825

It's actually from a hybrid setup though no idea if the hps was on.
View attachment 3636828
View attachment 3636829

The goal is to heat all the greenhouses with geothermal heat.
http://www.hortidaily.com/article/3920/Netherlands-VB-Projects-realises-geothermal-heat-connection-and-network-for-ECW-in-Wieringermeer

They aren't just going for climate neutral either, they are supposed to become power plants.

Electricity saving is a promise LED can already live up to, applying it to plants is another story. White cobs for grow led is ironic and like @FranJan posted today: "COBs r sooooo dead" "Fuck COBs, I count the days till they die and I'm also counting the days till June so I can upgrade my Veros :). The only people who think COBs are here to stay are the ones with inventory" "Sorry but IMHO COBs are nothing more than a waypoint, they are far from perfect, especially for growing"
Inside information from the Bibled sekt ^^
Click to expand...
Damn son. Stop and catch your breath. :clap:
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
The difference is with LED you actually have a choice and then choose for suboptimal.

Never seen those mercury vapor lamps in the streets, these are definitely leds. In urban areas they are white and bright as fuck. Can be hurtful on the eyes, this pic is actually from an article where people complained about the brightness:
View attachment 3636810

These will be blurple some day:
View attachment 3636811

Many already are:
View attachment 3636814
View attachment 3636817


This was a test run that made the news because people were like wtf is all that purple light...
View attachment 3636822

View attachment 3636821

View attachment 3636825

It's actually from a hybrid setup though no idea if the hps was on.
View attachment 3636828
View attachment 3636829

The goal is to heat all the greenhouses with geothermal heat.
http://www.hortidaily.com/article/3920/Netherlands-VB-Projects-realises-geothermal-heat-connection-and-network-for-ECW-in-Wieringermeer

They aren't just going for climate neutral either, they are supposed to become power plants.

Electricity saving is a promise LED can already live up to, applying it to plants is another story. White cobs for grow led is ironic and like @FranJan posted today: "COBs r sooooo dead" "Fuck COBs, I count the days till they die and I'm also counting the days till June so I can upgrade my Veros :). The only people who think COBs are here to stay are the ones with inventory" "Sorry but IMHO COBs are nothing more than a waypoint, they are far from perfect, especially for growing"
Inside information from the Bibled sekt ^^
Click to expand...

Including info from NASA.... White is better than monochrome. What university's are now finding is the more chemically complex a species is the more complex and full the spectrum needs to be for it to reach its optimum potential and health.
 
frica

frica

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
The only people who think COBs are here to stay are the ones with inventory" "Sorry but IMHO COBs are nothing more than a waypoint, they are far from perfect, especially for growing"
Inside information from the Bibled sekt ^^
Click to expand...
Manufactures can always put further research in phosphor coating to optimize it for horticultural stuff

In the end COBs are just a bunch of SMDs stacked together in a small area.
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
frica said:
Manufactures can always put further research in phosphor coating to optimize it for horticultural stuff

In the end COBs are just a bunch of SMDs stacked together in a small area.
Click to expand...
phosphor tech isn't new and is already past the big tech hump for doubling every few years.
You do realize that much of the phosphor tech has already been in use with fluoros and induction for decades ?
 
G

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Including info from NASA.... White is better than monochrome. What university's are now finding is the more chemically complex a species is the more complex and full the spectrum needs to be for it to reach its optimum potential and health.
Click to expand...
Shit dude. I mean. I'm just all about the great smoke. So what I push out 380 watts. 450 watts. Maybe even 500+ watts to reach the same goal of 30 to 200 grams. I mean my electricity is so cheap were talking dimes a gram a grow including all expendables. I've done the math. 200 grams? My god that's a years worth and I like to grow. I'll jut make cannabutter and give my GF's the weak stuff. Weak to me. She get funny as hell on it. But, she ain't really my gf. Lol. Fuck I'm high.

Meanwhile, I understand OCD and believe it's a great thing. Like Steve Jobs it pushes people to evolve perfection. It's progress. It will push evolution further down the road.

Meanwhile. I am not familiar with what you do. You're obviously educated. Show your wares?

Respect bro.
 
frica

frica

Well-Known Member
Satisvied loves that Wageningen study which only tested "synthetic sunlight" and sunlight with added red, not white COBs.

Spectrum of the sun which was used in the Wageningen test.


Spectrum of Cree cobs



Notice how the spectrum is clearly different and that the Cree peaks at red.
Also the sun is 5500K
Lower colour temperatures and most COBs used are 3000-3500K have much more red than a high K light like the Sun.

Notice also how the Mcree curve peaks at around 600nm just like a lower colour temp Cree cob.


So his reasoning is that because the Sun does worse than other lighting sources in terms of photosynthetic efficiency that each and every white light must also do worse in terms of photosynthetic effiiency besides the spectrums being completely different.
The RQE peak is at around 600nm, 3000K cree has a clear peak at 600nm. But somehow because the sun does worse than whatever wavelength they tested at Wageningen (the Sun peaks at around 450nm) the 3000K cree must also be performing worse.

:lol:
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Including info from NASA.... White is better than monochrome. What university's are now finding is the more chemically complex a species is the more complex and full the spectrum needs to be for it to reach its optimum potential and health.
Click to expand...
No. A different light recipe is researched for different species as one of the most reputable agricultural universities, phillips and many experts in the field test daily, for a billion dollar industry. Those greenhouses make NL the second/third agricultural exporter in the world, after US (and France depending on the year, or report). Your attempt at gaining credibility by mentioning NASA is futile. I can post an endless amount of research about light recipes, light steering, control light etc, and their different responses on different crops, really, barking up the wrong tree buddy. It's great that you get to visit the Cree factory, very cool I'm sure. I will take some pics soon too of a visit I'm about to make, one were they produce plants instead of lights.

Also lets not pretend I said only red and blue should be used for cannabis. I'm well aware high intensity light at different wavelength is not entirely useless. Those burple leds often contain some green/white and FR of course, just like at NASA... white cobs however, they are not (though surely some use white exclusively, it's far from common).
(@bicit: I'll show you mine if you show me yours? )

http://advancedledlights.com/nasa-research-determines-leds-provide-optimum-light-wavelengths-plant-growth/
NASA Research Determines LEDs Provide the Optimum Light Wavelengths for Plant Growth (March 2, 2016)

upload_2016-3-20_22-23-17.png

Some examples of the NASA research findings include the following:
  • Red Light (630 -660 nm) is essential for the growth of stems, as well as the expansion of leaves. This wavelength also regulates flowering, dormancy periods, and seed germination.
  • Blue Light (400 -520 nm) needs to be carefully mixed with light in other spectra since overexposure to light in this wavelength may stunt the growth of certain plant species. Light in the blue range also affects the chlorophyll content present in the plant as well as leaf thickness.
  • Green Light (500 – 600 nm) was once thought not to be necessary for plants, but recent studies have discovered this wavelength penetrates through thick top canopies to support the leaves in the lower canopy.
  • Far Red Light (720 – 740 nm) also passes through dense upper canopies to support the growth of leaves located lower on the plants. In addition, exposure to IR light reduces the time a plant needs to flower. Another benefit of far red light is that plants exposed to this wavelength tend to produce larger leaves than those not exposed to light in this spectrum.
The scientists mentioned including white LED light mixes in arrays serve as a way to ensure plants cultivated indoors receive all the photosynthetically active radiation needed to optimize their health, growth, and yield.

FYI the green becomes less important when LED is used for intra/interlighting.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
(@bicit: I'll show you mine if you show me yours? )
Click to expand...
I have a few tiny seedlings and a stressed out re-vegged mother of said seedlings. Nothing inspiring to show here I'm afraid.

Hit me up near the end of summer and I'll have more to show. I've got a better idea of what I want to do and a new setup I'm working on. Endless game of cat and mouse this pursuit of knowledge and experience is. Then there's the skinning.....
 
G

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
No. A different light recipe is researched for different species as one of the most reputable agricultural universities, phillips and many experts in the field test daily, for a billion dollar industry. Those greenhouses make NL the second/third agricultural exporter in the world, after US (and France depending on the year, or report). Your attempt at gaining credibility by mentioning NASA is futile. I can post an endless amount of research about light recipes, light steering, control light etc, and their different responses on different crops, really, barking up the wrong tree buddy. It's great that you get to visit the Cree factory, very cool I'm sure. I will take some pics soon too of a visit I'm about to make, one were they produce plants instead of lights.

Also lets not pretend I said only red and blue should be used for cannabis. I'm well aware high intensity light at different wavelength is not entirely useless. Those burple leds often contain some green/white and FR of course, just like at NASA... white cobs however, they are not (though surely some use white exclusively, it's far from common).
(@bicit: I'll show you mine if you show me yours? )

http://advancedledlights.com/nasa-research-determines-leds-provide-optimum-light-wavelengths-plant-growth/
NASA Research Determines LEDs Provide the Optimum Light Wavelengths for Plant Growth (March 2, 2016)

View attachment 3636875

Some examples of the NASA research findings include the following:
  • Red Light (630 -660 nm) is essential for the growth of stems, as well as the expansion of leaves. This wavelength also regulates flowering, dormancy periods, and seed germination.
  • Blue Light (400 -520 nm) needs to be carefully mixed with light in other spectra since overexposure to light in this wavelength may stunt the growth of certain plant species. Light in the blue range also affects the chlorophyll content present in the plant as well as leaf thickness.
  • Green Light (500 – 600 nm) was once thought not to be necessary for plants, but recent studies have discovered this wavelength penetrates through thick top canopies to support the leaves in the lower canopy.
  • Far Red Light (720 – 740 nm) also passes through dense upper canopies to support the growth of leaves located lower on the plants. In addition, exposure to IR light reduces the time a plant needs to flower. Another benefit of far red light is that plants exposed to this wavelength tend to produce larger leaves than those not exposed to light in this spectrum.
The scientists mentioned including white LED light mixes in arrays serve as a way to ensure plants cultivated indoors receive all the photosynthetically active radiation needed to optimize their health, growth, and yield.

FYI the green becomes less important when LED is used for intra/interlighting.
Click to expand...
I don't get it. The whole miracle light thing. I see all kind of growers around here who achieve amazing results with all types of different methods. Especially lights. Is there really a greatest thing? Seems to me the greatest thing is when your results make you happy. This back and forth banter seems a little like airy bud. It gets you stones as dense bud, just ain't as perty.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
GrowUrOwnDank said:
I don't get it. The whole miracle light thing. I see all kind of growers around here who achieve amazing results with all types of different methods. Especially lights. Is there really a greatest thing? Seems to me the greatest thing is when your results make you happy. This back and forth banter seems a little like airy bud. It gets you stones as dense bud, just ain't as perty.
Click to expand...
Not about better, or greatest really.

GrowUrOwnDank said:
Seems to me the greatest thing is when your results make you happy.
Click to expand...
I agree, and if you get happy from finishing a round by itself it doesn't really matter. It seems to me the greatest thing is when a grower's result make the grower satisfied, and in general we can easily specify what is important to a grower. If that is finishing a round and being able to grow "weed", happy with some buds to smoke, one probably isn't that interested in the factual differences.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
No. A different light recipe is researched for different species as one of the most reputable agricultural universities, phillips and many experts in the field test daily, for a billion dollar industry. Those greenhouses make NL the second/third agricultural exporter in the world, after US (and France depending on the year, or report). Your attempt at gaining credibility by mentioning NASA is futile. I can post an endless amount of research about light recipes, light steering, control light etc, and their different responses on different crops, really, barking up the wrong tree buddy. It's great that you get to visit the Cree factory, very cool I'm sure. I will take some pics soon too of a visit I'm about to make, one were they produce plants instead of lights.

Also lets not pretend I said only red and blue should be used for cannabis. I'm well aware high intensity light at different wavelength is not entirely useless. Those burple leds often contain some green/white and FR of course, just like at NASA... white cobs however, they are not (though surely some use white exclusively, it's far from common).
(@bicit: I'll show you mine if you show me yours? )

http://advancedledlights.com/nasa-research-determines-leds-provide-optimum-light-wavelengths-plant-growth/
NASA Research Determines LEDs Provide the Optimum Light Wavelengths for Plant Growth (March 2, 2016)

View attachment 3636875

Some examples of the NASA research findings include the following:
  • Red Light (630 -660 nm) is essential for the growth of stems, as well as the expansion of leaves. This wavelength also regulates flowering, dormancy periods, and seed germination.
  • Blue Light (400 -520 nm) needs to be carefully mixed with light in other spectra since overexposure to light in this wavelength may stunt the growth of certain plant species. Light in the blue range also affects the chlorophyll content present in the plant as well as leaf thickness.
  • Green Light (500 – 600 nm) was once thought not to be necessary for plants, but recent studies have discovered this wavelength penetrates through thick top canopies to support the leaves in the lower canopy.
  • Far Red Light (720 – 740 nm) also passes through dense upper canopies to support the growth of leaves located lower on the plants. In addition, exposure to IR light reduces the time a plant needs to flower. Another benefit of far red light is that plants exposed to this wavelength tend to produce larger leaves than those not exposed to light in this spectrum.
The scientists mentioned including white LED light mixes in arrays serve as a way to ensure plants cultivated indoors receive all the photosynthetically active radiation needed to optimize their health, growth, and yield.

FYI the green becomes less important when LED is used for intra/interlighting.
Click to expand...

You are right dude I give....... You ever wonder why plants are more sensitive to red/blue? Oh maybe because the sun's spectrum contains less of those photons by volume...... Since we aren't hitting the plant with sun like intensities indoors it's a reasonable assumption that the matching the sun may not be the very best option but to dismiss all the secondary functions of the plants outside of photosynthesis would really be an injustice.
 
G

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Not about better, or greatest really.

I agree, and if you get happy from finishing a round by itself it doesn't really matter. It seems to me the greatest thing is when a grower's result make the grower satisfied, and in general we can easily specify what is important to a grower. If that is finishing a round and being able to grow "weed", happy with some buds to smoke, one probably isn't that interested in the factual differences.
Click to expand...
The winner is you. And me. And that other guy. And everyone else. It's all good bro. Puff it up and relax. I'm thinking about some music. This girl. Damn. I miss her. This other one damn. It's so wrong. Work. Kinda sux but I'm handling it. Right now I'm so fucking stoned off shit Chinese led product and a cheap 150 HPS and I'm fucking happy. I honestly don't think not any reasonable functional dudes can smoke what I smoke and remain productive. But I do it. Relax man. It's chill son. You have great lights and awesome success. You're spoiled. Have fun son. Peace and love bro. :eyesmoke:
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
GrowUrOwnDank said:
The winner is you. And me. And that other guy. And everyone else. It's all good bro. Puff it up and relax. I'm thinking about some music. This girl. Damn. I miss her. This other one damn. It's so wrong. Work. Kinda sux but I'm handling it. Right now I'm so fucking stoned off shit Chinese led product and a cheap 150 HPS and I'm fucking happy. I honestly don't think not any reasonable functional dudes can smoke what I smoke and remain productive. But I do it. Relax man. It's chill son. You have great lights and awesome success. You're spoiled. Have fun son. Peace and love bro. :eyesmoke:
Click to expand...
There's clearly no denying you got very high from that chinese led + hps bud :lol: Enjoy.

Stephenj37826 said:
You are right dude I give.......
Click to expand...
Not my goal as you imply, but yeah I already knew a few years ago thousands of experts in horticulture lighting and photobiologists aren't just pretengineering and wasting their time a millions of dollars in research. You not wanting to be wrong doesn't equate to me wanting to being right though, it sort of comes naturally when you don't make things up and don't make claims you cannot backup. Anyway, you had a good run despite some of your claims, and without namecalling :shock:

PurpleBuz said:
phosphor tech isn't new and is already past the big tech hump for doubling every few years.
You do realize that much of the phosphor tech has already been in use with fluoros and induction for decades ?
Click to expand...
Yeah frica, what he^^ said :lol: would you mind explaining in short if and how phosphor is used in cree cobs to change which colors and to what?
 
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