Can someone help me get my nutrients dialed in for my next grow?

[AZgreenthumb]

Hello RIU still having trouble setting up my new drain to waste coco system. So I had some questions but first a little about my system there will be 12 plants growing in 5 gallon pots of coco and perlite in a 4x8 grow tent under two 1000w hid's that are adjustable from 600w to 1000w. Now on to my questions any feedback is greatly appreciated thank you for your time.

1. I've been looking at different nutrient combos being used by other coco growers but can't decide which one to go with. Here are the combinations I've seen so far which one should I use for best results?

(Combo 1) For Veg: House and Garden coco A+B, H&G Multizyme and B'Cuzz root stimulater. And for flower: H&G Multizyme, H&G Top Booster, H&G Bud XL, H&G Shooting powder.

(Combo 2) Canna coco A+B, Rhizotonic, PK 13/14, Botanicare cal mag, Botanicare silica blast, MOAB (Mother Of All Buds)

(Combo 3) Canna coco A+B, Rhizotonic, Cannazym, Humbolt county's own Purple Maxx, HC's snow storm, HC's flower hardner, B'cuzz root stimulater, Botanicare calmag+, protekit

So which of these nutrient combos should I go with in your opinion for the best results? Should I add anything to that combo?

2. Once I select my nutrients how do I go about getting them dialed in do I just refer to the feeding chart and start at half strength? How do I know what to add how much to add and when? (I've always been an organic soil grower so I'm used to the plant telling me what it wants) if I'm using RO water how much calmag am I going to need?

3. Can you get a way better yield with soiless coco grows then organic soil gardening? How much faster does the plant grow then In traditional organics? How does the quality compare to organic bud?

Thank you everyone for taking the time to answer my questions don't know what I would do without RIU!

 

[NVGrower]

I went to the hydro store yesterday and they had a whole wall with different neuts. I'm sure they are all good too.

I read posts on here about people's neut combos and later having lots of plant difficiencies etc.

I use foxfarm big grow and tiger bloom. Be aware of what's in each and how much. My point is don't have too many things that'll raise the PPMs too high from mixing so many things and then you don't have room for PPMs if you run into difficency issues.

Less is more.

 

[Carolina Dream'n]

Wayyyyyyy too many bottles.

Get a gallon of potassium silicate(hydro-gardens.com; cheaper and way more concentrated than any hydro shop potassium silicate)

A gallon of bluelab ph down.
5 gallons of ionic bloom.

1 ml per gallon of potassium silicate.
5-10ml per gallon ionic bloom.
Ph to 5.6-6.3.
Simple. Easy. Effective.

 

[thumper60]

I RUN BONICARE love it

 

[since1991]

Wayyyyyyy too many bottles.

Get a gallon of potassium silicate(hydro-gardens.com; cheaper and way more concentrated than any hydro shop potassium silicate)

A gallon of bluelab ph down.
5 gallons of ionic bloom.

1 ml per gallon of potassium silicate.
5-10ml per gallon ionic bloom.
Ph to 5.6-6.3.
Simple. Easy. Effective.

This ^^^ Solid advice. Maybe a root stimulator for early rooted cuts and a kelp foliar. But not necessary. All the bloom addys....nope. Everything they need in bloom is in one bottle of Ionic.

 

[pinner420]

Wayyyyyyy too many bottles.

Get a gallon of potassium silicate(hydro-gardens.com; cheaper and way more concentrated than any hydro shop potassium silicate)

A gallon of bluelab ph down.
5 gallons of ionic bloom.

1 ml per gallon of potassium silicate.
5-10ml per gallon ionic bloom.
Ph to 5.6-6.3.
Simple. Easy. Effective.

It really is that simple.. I do add .5 ml/ltr Pk 13/14 to my soup. Will make your head spin how ph stable it is too..

 

[HydroRed]

K.I.S.S. method always worked for me!

 

[since1991]

You know ive never really noticed a weight gain that justifies the price of a p/ k boost in flower. Ive used moab....ionic boost....canna....koolbloom and quite a few others. Maybe its just me. I did notice a slight increase i weights with Bloomabstic and Greenfuse and some H&G products but it prolonged flowering and the gains were slight compared to what tose tiny bottles of concentrate costs.

 

[Skunk Baxter]

Well, I don't agree that combo #2 is way too many bottles at all. It's pretty much what I use, and I'm happy with the result. You got yer A & B, yer zhyme for the roots, yer silica for the stalks, and yer calmag because it's coco, and yer bloom nutes. I use Hygrozyme instead of Rhyzotonic, and I don't use silica supplements at all - although I really should, because when you grow in coco, those girls stretch, and you want strong stalks. I have 23 plants right now, and 3/4 of them are staked. If I'd used silica, I might not have so much trouble keeping them upright.

As far as the calmag is concerned, I only use it once or twice a month. This is only my first coco grow, and I ran into a sudden major mag problem early on, but once I corrected it I only needed minor mag supplements occasionally. Your plants will tell you when they need it. If you're using RO water, how much calmag you need will depend on the type of coc you use and your watering system (more on that later).

I also don't really use the PK 13/14 very much - I greatly prefer the results I get from MOAB, but I bought the bottle and since I have it, I keep it in the grow room. Used it a couple of times when I was running low on MOAB, toward the end of flower anyway. If you want to save a few bucks, you sure don't need 'em both, but if you have them anyway you can use them interchangeably in a pinch.

Only thing I would add to that list would be a bottle of Gnatrol or some skeeter dunks. I had never met a fungus gnat in my life until I switched to coco, but I know what they're about now. When you get them (not if, but when) jump on 'em fast and jump on 'em hard. Don't let them get out of control, or you'll never regain the upper hand. I did the shock and awe thing on the fuckers as soon as they showed up, and have had no problems since.

What type of coco are you using? Coir or chunks? I started with coir, but am in the process of switching to chunks for the next run. They have very different characteristics - straight, unadulterated coir is more like soil, and chunks are more like hydro. Coir will hold the moisture much longer (I sometimes go 3 days between waterings), but chunks require much more frequent watering - however, you will get much better oxygenation, because coir is not a good medium for a hydro-style grow (IMO). If you're using 5 gallon pots with coir, they'll stay wet a long time. I use 8-inch square pots myself, and can easily go 2 or 3 days between waterings (although I don't make a habit of it; I just can if I choose to).

Are you using a top feed system? Exactly what type of irrigation system do you have in mind? To get peak results it's important to tailor your feeding system and nute mix to the type of coco you're using, IMO. The type of coco and feeding system you use will also have a lot to do with how much of a gnat problem you have. I can elaborate on these two paragraphs if you like.

If you're going with the Canna line, I suggest starting light on the nutes and watching the leaves to see what they tell you. I've never used their feed chart; if I had, I would have needed to cut a hole in the ceiling. I've run 1/4 to 1/3 strength through the whole grow, and some of the fuckers still shot up to almost 6 feet before I realized how strong those nutes are and what a terrific medium coco is (which sort of answers your question about how fast they grow and how well they yield - how fast do they grow? You best stand back so you don't get knocked over). Keep in mind that Canna nutes are pricey, so if you're using a true drain to waste rather than a recirculating ebb and flow, it's going to get expensive even at reduced strength.

If this is your first coco grow, I strongly suggest rinsing and charging your coco. I didn't take that very seriously the first time, and got away with it. So I didn't take it seriously the second time either, and have spent the entire day today flushing my clones and rinsing the salt out of the remaining coco chunks. The runoff is over 1200 PPM out of the bag, and it's the exact same brand as the one I used on the first run. I saved most of my clones, but may lose one or two of them over the next couple of days, depending on how they bounce back. Lesson learned; I'm embarrassed to admit I needed to learn it, but I'll own up to it so you can learn from my mistakes.

One more thing I seldom see mentioned, but I have found useful - if you're pumping the waste water, rather than letting it drain from gravity, it's a good idea to devise a filter for your pump. Small pieces of coco will inevitably get into the drainage, and if you're running it out with a pump, the plastic blades will eventually take a beating. A filter will usually extend your pump life. I just use old gym socks from the rag bag; slide the pump inside, and you're good to go.

Oh, and it probably goes without saying, but you definitely want a circulating fan or three. Coco will stretch, and the stalks will grow fast. You want them to be stiff and sturdy.

I leave anything out, or does that help?

 

[pinner420]

You know ive never really noticed a weight gain that justifies the price of a p/ k boost in flower. Ive used moab....ionic boost....canna....koolbloom and quite a few others. Maybe its just me. I did notice a slight increase i weights with Bloomabstic and Greenfuse and some H&G products but it prolonged flowering and the gains were slight compared to what tose tiny bottles of concentrate costs.

I only had a K deficiency once so I just roll a smidge in there for peace of mind. Running it no where near suggested dosage.

 

[since1991]

Well, I don't agree that combo #2 is way too many bottles at all. It's pretty much what I use, and I'm happy with the result. You got yer A & B, yer zhyme for the roots, yer silica for the stalks, and yer calmag because it's coco, and yer bloom nutes. I use Hygrozyme instead of Rhyzotonic, and I don't use silica supplements at all - although I really should, because when you grow in coco, those girls stretch, and you want strong stalks. I have 23 plants right now, and 3/4 of them are staked. If I'd used silica, I might not have so much trouble keeping them upright.

As far as the calmag is concerned, I only use it once or twice a month. This is only my first coco grow, and I ran into a sudden major mag problem early on, but once I corrected it I only needed minor mag supplements occasionally. Your plants will tell you when they need it. If you're using RO water, how much calmag you need will depend on the type of coc you use and your watering system (more on that later).

I also don't really use the PK 13/14 very much - I greatly prefer the results I get from MOAB, but I bought the bottle and since I have it, I keep it in the grow room. Used it a couple of times when I was running low on MOAB, toward the end of flower anyway. If you want to save a few bucks, you sure don't need 'em both, but if you have them anyway you can use them interchangeably in a pinch.

Only thing I would add to that list would be a bottle of Gnatrol or some skeeter dunks. I had never met a fungus gnat in my life until I switched to coco, but I know what they're about now. When you get them (not if, but when) jump on 'em fast and jump on 'em hard. Don't let them get out of control, or you'll never regain the upper hand. I did the shock and awe thing on the fuckers as soon as they showed up, and have had no problems since.

What type of coco are you using? Coir or chunks? I started with coir, but am in the process of switching to chunks for the next run. They have very different characteristics - straight, unadulterated coir is more like soil, and chunks are more like hydro. Coir will hold the moisture much longer (I sometimes go 3 days between waterings), but chunks require much more frequent watering - however, you will get much better oxygenation, because coir is not a good medium for a hydro-style grow (IMO). If you're using 5 gallon pots with coir, they'll stay wet a long time. I use 8-inch square pots myself, and can easily go 2 or 3 days between waterings (although I don't make a habit of it; I just can if I choose to).

Are you using a top feed system? Exactly what type of irrigation system do you have in mind? To get peak results it's important to tailor your feeding system and nute mix to the type of coco you're using, IMO. The type of coco and feeding system you use will also have a lot to do with how much of a gnat problem you have. I can elaborate on these two paragraphs if you like.

If you're going with the Canna line, I suggest starting light on the nutes and watching the leaves to see what they tell you. I've never used their feed chart; if I had, I would have needed to cut a hole in the ceiling. I've run 1/4 to 1/3 strength through the whole grow, and some of the fuckers still shot up to almost 6 feet before I realized how strong those nutes are and what a terrific medium coco is (which sort of answers your question about how fast they grow and how well they yield - how fast do they grow? You best stand back so you don't get knocked over). Keep in mind that Canna nutes are pricey, so if you're using a true drain to waste rather than a recirculating ebb and flow, it's going to get expensive even at reduced strength.

If this is your first coco grow, I strongly suggest rinsing and charging your coco. I didn't take that very seriously the first time, and got away with it. So I didn't take it seriously the second time either, and have spent the entire day today flushing my clones and rinsing the salt out of the remaining coco chunks. The runoff is over 1200 PPM out of the bag, and it's the exact same brand as the one I used on the first run. I saved most of my clones, but may lose one or two of them over the next couple of days, depending on how they bounce back. Lesson learned; I'm embarrassed to admit I needed to learn it, but I'll own up to it so you can learn from my mistakes.

One more thing I seldom see mentioned, but I have found useful - if you're pumping the waste water, rather than letting it drain from gravity, it's a good idea to devise a filter for your pump. Small pieces of coco will inevitably get into the drainage, and if you're running it out with a pump, the plastic blades will eventually take a beating. A filter will usually extend your pump life. I just use old gym socks from the rag bag; slide the pump inside, and you're good to go.

Oh, and it probably goes without saying, but you definitely want a circulating fan or three. Coco will stretch, and the stalks will grow fast. You want them to be stiff and sturdy.

I leave anything out, or does that help?

Look into greenhouse temperature differential to combat bolting (stretching...legginess) in the first few weeks of photoperiod manipulation for flowering. Its a method used by countless growers for all kinds of crops....cannabis included.

 

[since1991]

Look into greenhouse temperature differential to combat bolting (stretching...legginess) in the first few weeks of photoperiod manipulation for flowering. Its a method used by countless growers for all kinds of crops....cannabis included.

"Stretching" doesnt just happen in certain mediums....and its largely genetic. In my experience all cannabis varieties do it to some extant. Laying off humic and fulvic acid during this period helps. As does laying off the hormones like auxins and cytokinins (kelp seaweed). Playing with lights on and off temperature and humidity levels can really give a grower much more control with it in early flower....short of using nasty artificial plant growth regulating hormones not meant for human consumption.

 

[since1991]

Oh and silica never has done me much in making floppy branch strains stronger...ever. Floppy canopy support needing type strains never suddenly didnt because i added decent amounts of silica. It is a great additive though for a preventative against pests and diseases. Horticultural Science is still out on this element being essential or not.

 

[pinner420]

Embrace the 40% average stretch. I thought kelp was used to reduce the stretch that shit is like tobasco I put it everywhere! Silica is also considered a PM deturant and the list goes on. Have you run the fossil fuel as well?

 

[since1991]

Oh yeah. I run the Fossil Fuel. Its a great humic. Its one of the more concentrated ones. The old HDI Ionic feed charts used to not have you use it in early flower. The new ones do and i think its a typo but they also reduced the dosage to half. I lay off all humics fulvics and kelp until the stretch is over for stretchy sour chem and og strains in my lineup. They stretch like mad with it. A decent carb product like Sweet helps too but that stuff is such a rip. Your rite though....embrace the stretch is key....and that includes anticipation of whats going to
happen when the flip comes. Gotta know them strains man!!!

 

[Resinhound]

You new growers in coco better be careful dumping alot of K on your coco or youll just be back here with cal/mag deficiencies.P/ K boosters have limited use in any medium,but in coco they can be disastrous.

Excess K will compete for uptake with calcium,magnesium,zinc,manganese and iron.

Coco will release potassium naturally,this is why most coco specific nutrient go lighter on K.

 

[pinner420]

I've been reading about this goldentree action lately but I hate fucking with perfection.

 

[since1991]

Purply stems....yellow leaf margins....its K locking out phosphorus and magnesium. Happens. You guys ever had that shit happen to new transplants and suddenly it clears up when you just stay the course and dont freak out? Its the coco coir cations getting filled up and balancing out. Happens to me with new stuff all the time. Then you can give them whatever and they start jamming along.

 

[since1991]

The biggest difference ive seen that made me go "holy shit" wasnt in any bottle. It was when i finally sealed up the rooms and ran co2 with perfect temps and humidity. This was a few years ago. Then about 2 years ago i got Gavitas and went doubly holy shit.

 

[since1991]

Using a lower potassium and higher mag and calcium fert in new transplants to new coir....even buffered coir (all decent brands are buffered now) for the first 7-14 days helps alot for some strains. And where your l
plants really like a phosphorus and magnesium boost is the first 3 weeks of 12-12. The transiton. The phosphorus in later flowering is bro science mostly. They dont need the P like we used to think. Especially in container gardening where P stays put. The best flowering booster you can give is potassium sulfate in mid to later flowering. And iron plays a huge role in all this. Stick to a base fert that is at least chelated in DTPA as opposed to the cheaper EDTA. The best is EDDHA iron but ive only found that in House and Garden. Its the most pricey of the chelates and not really that important for such fast crops like cannabis bred for indoor quickness.