Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas

freemanjack

freemanjack

Well-Known Member
AWESOME THREAD!!!!!
Agree with every word in the op's initial post, top shelf info, concisely and clearly explained, bravo my fiend! bravo! Agro-chems will be the death of our soils if we don't cut the head off the beast NOW! Geoff Lawton is one of my very few heroes. If anyone is remotely interested in having their minds just a little blown, I have spent 3 yrs working up a hypothesis that describes the mechanisms involved in the 'soil food web' practice and my conclusion is that it is entirely electrical in essence, simply the flow of electrons and counterflow of ions that drives the entire system.
google; 'freemanjack - electro-biology' fer some of my published work.
 
MANGOBICHE

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Well it depends on the situation on amounts used. For my kelp teas I'll usually take a handful (crude measurement I know) of kelp meal per gallon and bubble it for 24-36 hours then water with it undiluted or diluted by up to 4x the water. I also favor coots ready to use kelp method that involves hydrating kelp, blending, and storing as is in the fridge so its ready to be stirred into the appropriate amount of water and be ready to go. I like kelp in all stages honestly. I avoid any sources of nutrition last week or two of bloom though. Just light waterings.
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So i follow the thread.....let me ask you this, any of you familiar with microbeman from icmag? He seems to know quite abit as well, was wondering if any of you have let a tea thats kelp meal, tablespoon of blackstrap, Homemade EWc compost as well if you'd allowed them to brew longer than say 36-48 hours, especially if you live in an area where it goes below 50 at night. I do measure the temps of my brews religiously just to be sure the herd is at 60ish. I would also like some insight on what i could use sans nylon stockings? Isnt it 200-400 micron bags that are ideal to let the entire process to be all it can be? I was also encouraged to buy glass bonded air stones with an aquarium pump of Bigger dimensions than what'd id had at the time. They were also using these.....
which i found SUPER SEXY!
 
MANGOBICHE

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
Also kinda interesting that folks are starting to steer clear of molasses
So after years of exploring teas and seeing many different methods, I am now finding Elaine is saying NO to molasses?



She is saying to use kelp meal, lots of rich compost, and add fish hydrosylate if you want N boost or more fungi.

I am going to run some trials comparing her recipes in the coming weeks to see how the teas compare.

I get great brews around 60 degrees for 48 hours, lots of hyphae and if it goes longer plenty of bacteria. The obvious quality level of EWC determines the quality of the tea, but cutting molasses and using kelp meal and hydrosylate as the only food stock seems very different.
 
natureboygrower

natureboygrower

Well-Known Member
MANGOBICHE said:
Also kinda interesting that folks are starting to steer clear of molasses
So after years of exploring teas and seeing many different methods, I am now finding Elaine is saying NO to molasses?



She is saying to use kelp meal, lots of rich compost, and add fish hydrosylate if you want N boost or more fungi.

I am going to run some trials comparing her recipes in the coming weeks to see how the teas compare.

I get great brews around 60 degrees for 48 hours, lots of hyphae and if it goes longer plenty of bacteria. The obvious quality level of EWC determines the quality of the tea, but cutting molasses and using kelp meal and hydrosylate as the only food stock seems very different.
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so why no on the molasses?
 
MANGOBICHE

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
This was in response to a couple of studies done several years ago with obvious flaws which stated molasses increases e-coli growth. The biggest flaw was that the CT was inoculated with e-coli. Molasses is, of course, going to feed it, as well as many other types of microbes.

fish hydrolysate feeds both bacteria and fungi

here, if you can handle a SHITTON of reading........
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620&page=190

I'd def suggest it though.
 
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DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
so why no on the molasses?
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It's preference for me too

Molasses are messy,
Dem guey. Stringy. Yet also subject to drying out and crusting.

That alone is enough for me, tbh,

but on top of that, the sugars and carbs are really condensed and thickened, and hard for a plant to metabolically digest later in its life cycle, which just so happens to be when the plant starts preferring less bacterially dominant soil and more fungal Dom soil

Don't want the herbs burning dark grey and black?

Try using Tims recipe but switching to gently, naturally, and instantly evaporated organic cane juice crystals with minerals, vitamins and molasses content inherent in it

Dilute teas to half strength between weeks 3 and 5 if using, and thats it, hombre

Be sure to ride it out with at least 3 weeks of nice clean, chloramine free, low ppm water. No tea, no foliar , this is very necessary imo for toptop shelf

Much cleaner, clearer, and harder to burn plants with all the same benefits, yet without the cons

Succanat is a brand that's popular but any will do. Its just organic cane stalks, taken and squeezed, allowed to evaporate, then crystallized

Vs the whole heating and concentrating and thickening

Here's day 32 using crystals instead of sticky molasses


image.jpg
 
MANGOBICHE

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
shit now that its out ill share too
Nothing but basic homemade compost ewc's, fish hydrosyl's recipe.....
11098604_382429128611511_954752469_n.jpg 11093138_805326646217988_346236332_n.jpg

yes i have a horrible habit of using trash bag liners in my pots, i airate them but find myself at times subconsciously doing it strangely enough
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
MANGOBICHE said:
So after years of exploring teas and seeing many different methods, I am now finding Elaine is saying NO to molasses?

She is saying to use kelp meal, lots of rich compost, and add fish hydrosylate if you want N boost or more fungi.
Click to expand...
Interesting!
Yeah actually I can understand why the switch from a microbial standpoint.
Molasses do feed the bacteria more than the fungi.
But usually what we are needing to add to our soils is the fungi - bacteria, typical of the lower stages of succession, being more abundantly present everywhere. More a question of diversity there, I'd say.
I've been looking at my soils and AACTs for a few months now, and from what I've seen have been thinking of a nutrient addition that caters more to the fungal side myself.

So thanks for the heads up, I'll be switching rather sooner than later ;)
 
natureboygrower

natureboygrower

Well-Known Member
very cool,thank you all for the info.I've only brewed for two seasons now so I'm always up for advice.I started brewing 2 gallons and this past season I was brewing 10g a week.I have the "pondmaster"ap100 for a pump and that would absolutely boil that 10g batch lol.I was going to build a vortex but didn't source a container in time so just built a bubble brewer instead. it seemed to work great,best yield and tasting bud up to date.no bottled nutes for this guy anymore.the one thing is,I built my soil off from buildasoil(roughly35 gallons of soil per planter)so of course they should have had no problems staying green and healthy. I watered with my ewc once a week to 2-3 weeks from harvest (glad you said 3 Don,some did go that long without ewc and I was kicking myself for not getting another feeding in lol)so im worried about how the soil is going to winter and what kind of nutrients I need to add.I have to get over to the rols thread..
anyways I will look into succanat,I agree,molasses is a pain and messy to work with.I've noticed using fish (Neptune's harvest)makes my tank a bit slimy.is there a dry form of fish or should I try another product?thanks guys
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Hi Trichome Fiend,

You appear to be someone after my own heart, love trichomes, love teaming with microbes.

Say I appreciate your thread, the one I started is similar, but I am not laying it out all at once to consume.

Trying to take it one bite (Rule) at a time and debunk myths around them.

Hope you enjoy the Micro Herd Nerd thread, looking forward to your contributions.

DANKSWAG

trichome fiend said:
Soil Food Web Gardening
...with compost teas​

...(text from the book, "Teaming with Microbes" written by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis)​
...any questions or comments about the book are welcome, I'd love to discuss it.
...+ REP if you like.



....the 19 rules!
Click to expand...
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
MANGOBICHE said:
yes i would consider using these........
https://www.amazon.com/Alaska-Emulsion-Fertilizer-Concentrate-Gallon/dp/B002RH0B26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476973598&sr=8-1&keywords=alaskan+fish+emulsion

I DID NOT like neptunes harvest products either. that and they are pricey as well at neptunes. which is crazy because they are out of the new england east coast man wtf lol.
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Alaska fish will kill your microbes and it is not organic. The stuff smells like thrown up cat shit.....Why is that? Because they start with a harbor trash fish (Menhaden which is high in mercury and PCBs) and extract the protiens for pet food and oils for codfish oil, and then boiled in chlorinated water (sometimes Cl as high as 14% in finished product because Cl is concentrated after evaporation.)



Neptune's Harvest Emulsions
- Uses several species of fish vs 1 type of fish (trash fish)
- No offensive odor vs Stinks
- Cold processed vs Cooked
- No oils removed vs Oils removed
- No meal removed (except Fillet) vs Meal removed
- No chlorine vs Contains chlorine
- Won't clog equipment vs Clogs equipment

Hydrolysate is the ONLY fish you want, it doesn't have to be Neptunes but their product is pricey because it is better quality.


https://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/search?item=8292

$75 for 5 gallons
 
DANKSWAG

DANKSWAG

Well-Known Member
Hi Natural Farmer,

Do you have any data sheets to back this claim up?

DankSwag

NaturalFarmer said:
Alaska fish will kill your microbes and it is not organic. The stuff smells like thrown up cat shit.....Why is that? Because they start with a harbor trash fish (Menhaden which is high in mercury and PCBs) and extract the protiens for pet food and oils for codfish oil, and then boiled in chlorinated water (sometimes Cl as high as 14% in finished product because Cl is concentrated after evaporation.)



Neptune's Harvest Emulsions
- Uses several species of fish vs 1 type of fish (trash fish)
- No offensive odor vs Stinks
- Cold processed vs Cooked
- No oils removed vs Oils removed
- No meal removed (except Fillet) vs Meal removed
- No chlorine vs Contains chlorine
- Won't clog equipment vs Clogs equipment

Hydrolysate is the ONLY fish you want, it doesn't have to be Neptunes but their product is pricey because it is better quality.


https://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs/search?item=8292

$75 for 5 gallons
Click to expand...
 
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