What's the best all organic base potting soil mix?

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
I noticed you aren't messing with any mycorrhizae, Rasta. Don't find it necessary?
I used to apply it to my root zone when I would transplant. But one day I ran out of it. And Ive done five grows without it since and I haven't missed it. Now granted, I haven't done any side by side comparisons. I just used to use it, now I don't, and my results haven't changed.

I'm no microbiologist, but I believe if you've got good organic compost in your soil, mychos should show up on their own.

Either way, I havent missed it, my wallets been the better for it, my yield and my quality have stayed consistent.
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Endomycorrhizal fungi (more commonly referred to as endomycorrhizae) is one of the major types of known mycorrhizae which differs from the another type of mycorrhizae, ectomycorrhizae, in structure. Unlike ectomycorrhizae which form a system of hyphae that grow around the cells of the root, the hyphae of the endomycorrhizae not only grow inside the root of the plant but penetrate the root cell walls and become enclosed in the cell membrane as well (1). This makes for a more invasive symbiotic relationship between the fungi and the plant. The penetrating hyphae create a greater contact surface area between the hyphae of the fungi and the plant. This heightened contact facilitates a greater transfer of nutrients between the two. Endomycorrhizae have further been classified into five major groups: arbuscular, ericoid, arbutoid, monotropoid, and orchid mycorrhizae (2).

Ectomycorrhiza[edit]

Beech is ectomycorrhizal
Main article: Ectomycorrhiza
Ectomycorrhizas, or EcM, are typically formed between the roots of around 10% of plant families, mostly woody plants including the birch, dipterocarp, eucalyptus, oak, pine, and rose[26] families, orchids,[32] and fungi belonging to the Basidiomycota, Ascomycota, and Zygomycota. Some EcM fungi, such as many Leccinum and Suillus, are symbiotic with only one particular genus of plant, while other fungi, such as the Amanita, are generalists that form mycorrhizas with many different plants.[33] An individual tree may have 15 or more different fungal EcM partners at one time.[34] Thousands of ectomycorrhizal fungal species exist, hosted in over 200 genera. A recent study has conservatively estimated global ectomycorrhizal fungal species richness at approximately 7750 species, although, on the basis of estimates of knowns and unknowns in macromycete diversity, a final estimate of ECM species richness would probably be between 20000 and 25000.[35]

Ectomycorrhizas consist of a hyphal sheath, or mantle, covering the root tip and a Hartig net of hyphae surrounding the plant cells within the root cortex. In some cases the hyphae may also penetrate the plant cells, in which case the mycorrhiza is called an ectendomycorrhiza. Outside the root, Ectomycorrhizal extramatrical mycelium forms an extensive network within the soil and leaf litter.

Nutrients can be shown to move between different plants through the fungal network. Carbon has been shown to move from paper birch trees into Douglas-fir trees thereby promoting succession in ecosystems.[36] The ectomycorrhizal fungus Laccaria bicolor has been found to lure and kill springtails to obtain nitrogen, some of which may then be transferred to the mycorrhizal host plant. In a study by Klironomos and Hart, Eastern White Pine inoculated with L. bicolor was able to derive up to 25% of its nitrogen from springtails.[37][38]

The first genomic sequence for a representative of symbiotic fungi, the ectomycorrhizal basidiomycete Laccaria bicolor, has been published.[39] An expansion of several multigene families occurred in this fungus, suggesting that adaptation to symbiosis proceeded by gene duplication. Within lineage-specific genes those coding for symbiosis-regulated secreted proteins showed an up-regulated expression in ectomycorrhizal root tips suggesting a role in the partner communication. Laccaria bicolor is lacking enzymes involved in the degradation of plant cell wall components (cellulose, hemicellulose, pectins and pectates), preventing the symbiont from degrading host cells during the root colonisation. By contrast, Laccaria bicolor possesses expanded multigene families associated with hydrolysis of bacterial and microfauna polysaccharides and proteins. This genome analysis revealed the dual saprotrophic and biotrophic lifestyle of the mycorrhizal fungus that enables it to grow within both soil and living plant roots.
What did your teacher tell you about copying Wikipedia? Lol
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
I used to apply it to my root zone when I would transplant. But one day I ran out of it. And Ive done five grows without it since and I haven't missed it. Now granted, I haven't done any side by side comparisons. I just used to use it, now I don't, and my results haven't changed.

I'm no microbiologist, but I believe if you've got good organic compost in your soil, mychos should show up on their own.

Either way, I havent missed it, my wallets been the better for it, my yield and my quality have stayed consistent.
You don't need any of those root dusting stuffs if you got a really good soil with quality compost in it, compost should have MANY types of bacteria. It's the bacteria that breaks down all the stuff you used in your compost to turn it into usable soil.
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Do any of you guys like to go wild mushroom picking? I love to see the different types of fungus and sometimes get lucky and stumble across some chanterelles or a morel if I am really lucky. Season starting shortly here in the rockies, i'm pretty excited.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
You want both ecto and endo myco's. More colonization of roots and different types of fungi produce different fungus webs to the roots which in turn have different cellular structures. If you only use 1 type you are really missing out, in nature its not just 1 type of mycos, its a huge variety. The tricoderma they use in that only makes the two species of mycos grow faster, bigger and stronger :)

Different species of fungus break down different types of stuff, like I said earlier you should use Azos first, since it helps break down nitrogen, the extreme mykos basically just helps your roots only, to grow bigger, stronger, more sponge like. Different types of bacteria have different functions, that's why its super important to have a diverse population.
no you do not.
ecto myco is USELESS.
copying an pasting is different than understanding the actual biology behind it
you wanna spend 45 bucks on something
go ahead
I was merely trying to tell you that.
buy what you want.
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
no you do not.
ecto myco is USELESS.
copying an pasting is different than understanding the actual biology behind it
you wanna spend 45 bucks on something
go ahead
I was merely trying to tell you that.
buy what you want.
Explain why then and cite a source please. I want to learn but if you have nothing to back it up I don't see how that is going to sway my mind. According to numerious sources you are wrong, this is what ectomykos is

An ectomycorrhiza (Gk. ἐκτός, ektos, "outside;" μυκός, mykós, "fungus;" ριζα, riza, "roots;" pl. ectomycorrhizas or ectomycorrhizae, abbreviated EcM) is a form of symbiotic relationship that occurs between a fungal symbiont and the roots of various plant species.
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Do any of you guys like to go wild mushroom picking? I love to see the different types of fungus and sometimes get lucky and stumble across some chanterelles or a morel if I am really lucky. Season starting shortly here in the rockies, i'm pretty excited.
Not since I was a kid man! I wish I don't really have access to any areas to hunt. I'll have to make sure to look for some property with some good mushroom hunting!
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Explain why then and cite a source please. I want to learn but if you have nothing to back it up I don't see how that is going to sway my mind. According to numerious sources you are wrong, this is what ectomykos is

An ectomycorrhiza (Gk. ἐκτός, ektos, "outside;" μυκός, mykós, "fungus;" ριζα, riza, "roots;" pl. ectomycorrhizas or ectomycorrhizae, abbreviated EcM) is a form of symbiotic relationship that occurs between a fungal symbiont and the roots of various plant species.
EDITED---- due to foul mood and obscene language--
trees use ecto
plants, veggies, flowers, do not
endo is good, ecto is bad
pardon my lack of patience, I don't like to have to over-explain things
 
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Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Not since I was a kid man! I wish I don't really have access to any areas to hunt. I'll have to make sure to look for some property with some good mushroom hunting!
Oh I don't own land to hunt on, I go on long mountain hikes and go off the trails into the hills/mountains and pick mushrooms that are on public land. Anyone can do it :)
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
oh for fucks sake
READ A BOOK
trees use ecto
plants, veggies, flowers, do not
Sources? Cause according to my sources, ectomykos is used by plants with fruiting bodies and other container plants , I even have pictures of ectomykos colonization on a potted house plant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectomycorrhiza

Read that please.

EcM plants and fungi exhibit a wide taxonomic distribution and are similarly present across all continents (apart from Antarctica), suggesting the EcM symbiosis has ancient evolutionary roots, as well.[1] Pinaceae represents the oldest extant plant family in which symbiosis with EcM fungi occurs,[5] and fossils from this family date back to 156 million years ago.[6]
 

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
You don't need any of those root dusting stuffs if you got a really good soil with quality compost in it, compost should have MANY types of bacteria. It's the bacteria that breaks down all the stuff you used in your compost to turn it into usable soil.
That's what I had thought. Make your soil from quality materials and you don't have to add in a bunch of additives and snake oil, just let nature do the work.
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
That's what I had thought. Make your soil from quality materials and you don't have to add in a bunch of additives and snake oil, just let nature do the work.
Yep, I like to use the root dusting stuff just to kick start it even harder, seems to help root mass and the flavor profile.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
mycorrhiza (Greek: μυκός, mykós, "fungus", and ρίζα, riza, "root",[1] pl. mycorrhizae or mycorrhizas) is a symbiotic association composed of a fungus and roots of a vascular plant.[2] In a mycorrhizal association, the fungus colonizes the host plant's roots, either intracellularly as in arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF or AM), or extracellularly as in ectomycorrhizal fungi. They are an important component of soil life and soil chemistry.

Two different ways to colonize roots, one is ectomycorrhizal and one is endomycorrhizal, I wouldn't pay the extra money if it wasn't worth it I am the cheapest grower yo uwill ever meet.
took me 30 seconds man
http://www.growersgold.net/what-is-mycorrhizae
read about the differences and what they do
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
took me 30 seconds man
http://www.growersgold.net/what-is-mycorrhizae
read about the differences and what they do
Ectomykos readily is available to rose plants ,which have a similar root system to cannabis and hops. Even if it does nothing ,GWS has more endomykos than "extreme mykos" which only has 1 species of mykos. That website you linked even says they use a blend of mykos species , why limit yourself to only one?
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
I'm definitely willing to not pay for GWS again, but I am not gonna use the extreme mykos again, it's just not as good. If I can find another type of mykos that has numerious species I would be interested, but using a single type of bacteria isn't going to work as good as a mix of different species.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Other media products in the market offer single species of endomycorrhizae or offer a blend of endo and ecto mycorrhizae. Grower’s Gold growing mix amended with mycorrhizae use a blend of endo species designed to enhance colonization under a wide range of growing conditions. We do not add ectomycorrhizae since they provide no benefit to most crops.

Bottom of your link.
precisely my point man, you GWS has a metric ass-ton of ecto
compared to the numbers of the trichoderma and the SMALL numbers of endo myco, I was merely saying that MOST of the myco isn't getting to the roots, where they MUST have physical contact in order to proliferate.
I'm definitely willing to not pay for GWS again, but I am not gonna use the extreme mykos again, it's just not as good. If I can find another type of mykos that has numerious species I would be interested, but using a single type of bacteria isn't going to work as good as a mix of different species.
I understand your logic, but it's counterintuitive.
Lets just agree to disagree.
but please do yourself a favor and get a really good book on organic growing and the relation between nutrients, microbes, and myco.
You are a smart guy, but I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not getting more into the soil-biology aspect of it.
I stand by what I said GWS is WAY overpriced.
I was just looking out for ya man
 

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
precisely my point man, you GWS has a metric ass-ton of ecto
compared to the numbers of the trichoderma and the SMALL numbers of endo myco, I was merely saying that MOST of the myco isn't getting to the roots, where they MUST have physical contact in order to proliferate.

I understand your logic, but it's counterintuitive.
Lets just agree to disagree.
but please do yourself a favor and get a really good book on organic growing and the relation between nutrients, microbes, and myco.
You are a smart guy, but I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not getting more into the soil-biology aspect of it.
I stand by what I said GSW is WAY overpriced.
I even said it was massively overpriced, but I have used extreme mykos and wasn't impressed in the least bit, I guess it's time to start looking for a new brand. I have read numerous books on organic gardening(and I run a huge plot of land each year outdoor organic till farming[ground much too hard to do non-till here]), sorry I might have been wrong on this topic but I still believe extreme mykos isn't very effective and in my opinion you might as well not even use it if you used good compost in your soil it probably has more mykos and species of mykos than extreme mykos could offer.

I am still learning tho, and I appreciate you being patient with me.
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Ectomykos readily is available to rose plants ,which have a similar root system to cannabis and hops. Even if it does nothing ,GWS has more endomykos than "extreme mykos" which only has 1 species of mykos. That website you linked even says they use a blend of mykos species , why limit yourself to only one?
because my friend... it's the ONLY one that those smart biologists have said that works.
hers a copy and paste from good ol wiki

In numerous scientific studies G. intraradices has been shown to increase phosphorus uptake in multiple plants as well as improve soil aggregation due to hyphae.[13]

Because of these qualities, G. intraradices is commonly found in mycorrhizal based fertilizers.

In a recent study, G. intraradices was found to be the only arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi that was able to control nutrient uptake amounts by individual hyphae depending on differing phosphorus levels in the surrounding soil.[9]
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I even said it was massively overpriced, but I have used extreme mykos and wasn't impressed in the least bit, I guess it's time to start looking for a new brand. I have read numerous books on organic gardening(and I run a huge plot of land each year outdoor organic till farming[ground much too hard to do non-till here]), sorry I might have been wrong on this topic but I still believe extreme mykos isn't very effective and in my opinion you might as well not even use it if you used good compost in your soil it probably has more mykos and species of mykos than extreme mykos could offer.

I am still learning tho, and I appreciate you being patient with me.
I apologize for NOT being patient..
humbly so.
it's never my intention to anger or frustrate people.
the important thing to remember, is myco is indeed in most compost and soil, but it MUST be physically on the roots to really work well, and when you sprinkle pure endo myco on the roots, it acts like a secondary webbing system for all the roots to absorb nutrients and furthermore, its responsible for up to 80% of phosphurus being uptook by the plant
 
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