USA move closer to equality in wages

What will increasing the minimum accompish?

  • Make a lot of workers very happy, and boost the economy

  • Cost jobs and drive businesses into bankruptcy

  • Nothing

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ThickStemz said:
Why not instead mandate that every one under 30k a year get a 50% raise, between 30k and 60k a 20% raise, and have some mechanism to even out the raise difference between the two groups there.

Because if you take minimum wage up to 15 an hour, what happens to the hard working folks making 18 an hour? They just got poorer.
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no it doesn't. it will raise demand for goods which will result in more $18 hr jobs.
 
OddBall1st said:
It has always been the same, only the numbers are different. When people have more money, the cost of living goes up.

Take cigarettes, back when minimum wages was 3.75, in the 70`s, cigarettes were .75 cents. People make more money now, the companies paying off lawsuits and a pack of cigarettes in Boston is almost 11 dollars.

The day companies eat their money so you can have more,.... will never come.
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your example is off. politicians adding sin taxes to cigs is what that is
 
Elwood Diggler said:
no it doesn't. it will raise demand for goods which will result in more $18 hr jobs.
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Minimum wage is what... 7.50 now?
If you raise the minimum to 15, making 18 an hour, would go from almost middle class to the new 10 an hour. Just slightly better than the working poor... Still the working poor just not the poorest of those poor.

Congrats on actually missing the forest for the trees
 
ThickStemz said:
Minimum wage is what... 7.50 now?
If you raise the minimum to 15, making 18 an hour, would go from almost middle class to the new 10 an hour. Just slightly better than the working poor... Still the working poor just not the poorest of those poor.

Congrats on actually missing the forest for the trees
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so fucking what? those making $18 hr chose to accept work at that wage. it has nothing to do with what anyone else is making.

you don't account for the increase in spending that occurs when people have more money in their pockets.

anything else? any more tired ass cliches you want to throw around?
 
Elwood Diggler said:
so fucking what? those making $18 hr chose to accept work at that wage. it has nothing to do with what anyone else is making.

you don't account for the increase in spending that occurs when people have more money in their pockets.

anything else? any more tired ass cliches you want to throw around?
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Tired ass cliche is the tiredest of cliches.

Look... Its just Fucking reality.

I've no doubt the minimum will eventually reach 15. Its always going to climb. But to ratchet the minimum up to 15 at a much faster pace than it has been rising will negatively impact many people. The elderly on fixed incomes the worst, and those who are make just above what the new minimum is now. All those people will take a hit to their standard of living.

You can't deny this.

Just like I can't deny that all those making less than the new minimum would get a benefit.

Why 15? How did people settle on that number as a goal?

Who do you think would be better off.. A person working for $12 now, or a person working for minimum wage when it is $15 an hour?

Another thing you fail to consider is that even supposing your argument is true, that all this extra income will boost the economy. Who does that money go to? The rich. The people who own the businesses. Two people at two different companies making the same wage have identical income even when one of the worker's company is making record profits and the other's company is just getting by.

You have a circular argument, sir. And what you think is a great point against me about the people accepting the 18 dollar wage can equally be said about the people working for 7.50 now.
 
Elwood Diggler said:
it has nothing to do with what anyone else is making.
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Conservatives only care what other people are making when they think it will affect them

If someone working full time is making minimum wage and they can't afford food/rent/electricity/etc., "Fuck em, they should have worked harder or invested in their education"

If someone working minimum wage suddenly gets a raise so they can afford food/rent/electricity/etc., "What the fuck! Why didn't I get a raise too!?" That's not fair! (funny, now all of a sudden they care about what's fair...)
 
Padawanbater2 said:
It hasn't risen since 1968 (coupled with inflation), so what is your evidence that if we raise the minimum wage faster than it's risen since 1968, it will negatively impact people?
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Imagine youre a senior citizen drawing 1500 a month on social security. Minimum wage at 7 50 is about 1100 a month. At 15 minimum wage goes up to about 2200 a month.

What corresponding increas does that sr citizen get?

Surely you dont need anyone to tell you that theyre worse off in the new 15 minimum world.

Say you make 18 an hour now. Minimum goes to 15. You used to be over 2 times the minimum wage. Now you're barely over it.

Again, do you really need a Harvard economist to tell you that this persons situation has been degraded?

Keep in mind I'm not saying we shouldn't raise the Minimum because of this. I'm just pointing out what landmines might need to be cleared first.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Conservatives only care what other people are making when they think it will affect them

If someone working full time is making minimum wage and they can't afford food/rent/electricity/etc., "Fuck em, they should have worked harder or invested in their education"

If someone working minimum wage suddenly gets a raise so they can afford food/rent/electricity/etc., "What the fuck! Why didn't I get a raise too!?" That's not fair! (funny, now all of a sudden they care about what's fair...)
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Are you telling me the LPN or the PharmacyTech isnt worth more and deserving of a better life for their hard work than a high school drop out stuck at the drive thru?
 
Padawanbater2 said:
It hasn't risen since 1968 (coupled with inflation), so what is your evidence that if we raise the minimum wage faster than it's risen since 1968, it will negatively impact people?
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It's been almost 40 years since Reagan and the Trickle Downs (syndrome) began the destruction of the American middle class.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that most Americans don't feel like their lives got better in that time.

So I'm in favor of a big change. No more corporate hegemony in politics and economic life, why not let the average American be in charge of their own economic future for awhile and see how that goes?
 
ThickStemz said:
Imagine youre a senior citizen drawing 1500 a month on social security. Minimum wage at 7 50 is about 1100 a month. At 15 minimum wage goes up to about 2200 a month.
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Imagine you're an average American making $935 a month (after taxes) working a full time job. If you live in my state, at least $600-$700 goes to rent. Now you have $335-$435 for food, bills besides rent & savings.

cpi-link-min-wage.png


Prices - Red, Wages - Blue

Prices rise as wages stagnate, very clearly

Your argument that we shouldn't raise wages because then, prices will rise, seems absolutely silly looking at that chart, doesn't it?

Prices rise anyway, regardless of the minimum wage

Every sane person on Earth is telling you we need to raise wages to match prices, not the other way around

Prices have risen. Wages have not. We need to raise wages to match prices, otherwise people can't buy anything, business owners can't make money and we can't stimulate the economy
 
ThickStemz said:
Are you telling me the LPN or the PharmacyTech isnt worth more and deserving of a better life for their hard work than a high school drop out stuck at the drive thru?
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Anybody who works a full time job should be able to provide for himself

The work they do is irrelevant to this concept

If someone is willing to pay someone for 40 hours of work, that person should be able to support himself


Employers buy time, not skill
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Anybody who works a full time job should be able to provide for himself

The work they do is irrelevant to this concept

If someone is willing to pay someone for 40 hours of work, that person should be able to support himself


Employers buy time, not skill
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Not quite. Employers buy skill- and PAY for time. That tilts things pretty heavily in favor of employers.
 
ttystikk said:
This basic arbitrage is exactly why minimum wage laws are needed in the first place. If the position's required skill level is low, it won't command a living wage without one.
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I've never read/seen that word before, I had to look that up, thanks, again, for hooking up the vocabulary!

You highlight another great point - wherever we are, there will be jobs that require minimum skill, therefor, minimum wage. Do we want to be a society that lets people work full time and still be homeless? I know I don't. I know I would gladly subtract from my (trust me) minimal wages to ensure less of my fellow human beings are subject to abject poverty. These are people, just as important and special as you and me, they deserve the opportunity to be the makers of their own destinies. If it means paying $0.12 more per box of mac and cheese, are you fuckin' kidding me? Add it. Don't ask me.

So when I hear about stories like the Panama Papers, it makes me seriously question reality, the plane I live on, if this is all real.. it just blows my mind how so many people can be so absolutely greedy and disregard the billions they share their world with..

I simply can't fathom how it could be possible. You have so much and yet, you need, so much.. more...

It hasn't been studied, but it will be. Affluence is a disease, just as narcissism and depression
 
Padawanbater2 said:
It hasn't risen since 1968 (coupled with inflation), so what is your evidence that if we raise the minimum wage faster than it's risen since 1968, it will negatively impact people?
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He's got no evidence, he is full of shit and does not know the first thing about economics.

He openly admits to not being able to fathom how things can be possible, even when they are.
 
ThickStemz said:
Tired ass cliche is the tiredest of cliches.

Look... Its just Fucking reality.

I've no doubt the minimum will eventually reach 15. Its always going to climb. But to ratchet the minimum up to 15 at a much faster pace than it has been rising will negatively impact many people. The elderly on fixed incomes the worst, and those who are make just above what the new minimum is now. All those people will take a hit to their standard of living.

You can't deny this.

Just like I can't deny that all those making less than the new minimum would get a benefit.

Why 15? How did people settle on that number as a goal?

Who do you think would be better off.. A person working for $12 now, or a person working for minimum wage when it is $15 an hour?

Another thing you fail to consider is that even supposing your argument is true, that all this extra income will boost the economy. Who does that money go to? The rich. The people who own the businesses. Two people at two different companies making the same wage have identical income even when one of the worker's company is making record profits and the other's company is just getting by.

You have a circular argument, sir. And what you think is a great point against me about the people accepting the 18 dollar wage can equally be said about the people working for 7.50 now.
Click to expand...



no it can't. those making $7.50 hr are being subsidized by taxpayers so they can have a roof over their head and eat. doing this stupid shit instead of raising the min wage puts the onus back on the business owner. if the business owner can't compensate his/her employees with a living wage then he/she shouldn't be in business because it's not the taxpayers' job to pick up the slack so he can make a profit.

the circular argument here? you keep spinning bullshit to the point it confuses you and you actually think your're making a valid point

are you seriously going to question which is better, $12 hr now or the soon to be $15hr? i'd advise taking some of that thick money you're making selling timeshares to rubes and read some things robert reich has written.

or you can keep spouting off the same old shit the rest of the conservatives around here when they howl and spit around their lone fang about standing tall and earning their own way with their one man show businesses that are projected to always need their women to work and support
 
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