The far red thread

[PurpleBuz]

Here, read up on photoperiodism and get back to me. Here's a quote;

so what ? I don't want to argue with you, everything I have stated comes from research papers that I studied years ago.
its those research papers which provided the facts for the intro bio\botany courses with cute little summaries. If you don't believe me then please show me with actual experimental data that proves otherwise.

do you realize that the Pr\Pfr phenomenon has been understood for a long time, and that most of the research was done last century for the flower industry ? Think poinsettas and mums and gas lamp lighting.

 

[BobCajun]

so what ? I don't want to argue with you, everything I have stated comes from research papers that I studied years ago.
its those research papers which provided the facts for the intro bio\botany courses with cute little summaries. If you don't believe me then please show me with actual experimental data that proves otherwise.

do you realize that the Pr\Pfr phenomenon has been understood for a long time, and that most of the research was done last century for the flower industry ? Think poinsettas and mums and gas lamp lighting.

Oh please. This is getting silly now. Feel free to post a link to anything remotely backing up your claims.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Oh please. This is getting silly now. Feel free to post a link to anything remotely backing up your claims.

show me, your the one disagreeing. I could care less whether you believe me or not.

 

[pookat]

hope you don't mind, but i'm looking into the flash duration and came across this pdf on
Effects of Frequency and Duty Ratio
on the Growth of Potato Plantlets In
Vitro Using Light-emitting Diodes
you might have seen something about it.
i call it optical harmonics, using different colours at different frequency's with different flash rates, i used to be a aborist and learned bugger all about botany mainly cos i was too stoned.
attempting to upload a file for you . i got a really slow internet connection too.

 

[BobCajun]

show me, your the one disagreeing. I could care less whether you believe me or not.

See post #720. Where it's underlined it means it's a link.

 

[PurpleBuz]

hope you don't mind, but i'm looking into the flash duration and came across this pdf on
Effects of Frequency and Duty Ratio
on the Growth of Potato Plantlets In
Vitro Using Light-emitting Diodes
you might have seen something about it.(
i call it optical harmonics, using different colours at different frequency's with different flash rates, i used to be a aborist and learned bugger all about botany mainly cos i was too stoned.
attempting to upload a file for you . i got a really slow internet connection too.

that's cool stuff, I believe the theory behind it (or hope) is that if you strobe light at the appropriate rates one can save on the amount of energy used to drive photosynthesis since it takes time for the light energy of each flash to move through absorption and into stored energy since the photosynthesis system becomes saturated for a short period of time. Probably not really practical for increasing efficiency of artificial lighting systems, but helpful to understand the physiological actions of photosynthesis.

they came up with 180 hz, wonder how that compares to a typical pwm dimming frequency.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Here, read up on photoperiodism and get back to me. Here's a quote;

so your showing a botany 101 summary that I could have written blindfolded ?

show me some proof or shut up.

 

[BobCajun]

hope you don't mind, but i'm looking into the flash duration and came across this pdf on
Effects of Frequency and Duty Ratio
on the Growth of Potato Plantlets In
Vitro Using Light-emitting Diodes
you might have seen something about it.
i call it optical harmonics, using different colours at different frequency's with different flash rates, i used to be a aborist and learned bugger all about botany mainly cos i was too stoned.
attempting to upload a file for you . i got a really slow internet connection too.

I'm using a PWM cycle of 300 microseconds on, 150 off now. So far so good. I don't want to use a 50% duty cycle because the light would be too dim. Mine is a 66%. In the off part it actually only goes down to 10% brightness, like most drivers, so it works out to about 70% of full light in total. I doubt it will produce more growth than the average of the on/off cycles but I needed to dim it anyway and that was the most precise way to do it.

 

[BobCajun]

so your showing a botany 101 summary that I could have written blindfolded ?

show me some proof or shut up.

I don't have to because it's common knowledge. You're actually the only one around who thinks that far red in the middle of the night prevents flowering, mainly because it doesn't. You weren't satisfied with what I linked but it's a whole lot better than what you linked, ie; nada.

 

[pookat]

if you apply ultra simple physics it comes down to basic wave type stuff (de broilgler? wave equations), so if you can work out the fundamental frequency i.e 730 nano meters, then a harmonic of several dozen octaves would be 720 meter's, so if you figure out the fundamental frequency for the T.h.c molecule and pulsed a combination of light wavelenght's at a set flash duration - bob you just posted what i'm typing cheer's-,

 

[PurpleBuz]

I don't have to because it's common knowledge. You're actually the only one around who thinks that far red in the middle of the night prevents flowering, mainly because it doesn't. You weren't satisfied with what I linked but it's a whole lot better than what you linked, ie; nada.

dude you are the only one disagreeing and you are the only that's using an incandescent black light to get a bit of far red light. everybody else had enough sense to deploy a few 730nm far red leds.

 

[pookat]

my internets way too sloooow, as far as i hear interupted darkness by certain light frequency's of varying duration can encourage retardation of certain plant species while encouraging others to benefit, the question i have is which one makes a better cannabis plant/crop, no disrespect to anyone, but if the pulse/ flash on off ratio's right and if it's a harmonic of the T.h.c molecule then it should encourage a greater T.h.c production ?
thats what i think any way, so who know's the fundamental freq of thc?

 

[Airwalker16]

I'm just gonna do 15 mins, with 2-5 of them starting before lights out. Do any of you know the coorelarion between far reds and when you're supposed to start bringing the light schedule to 13 on 11 off then 14 on 10 off? Or is it the other way around? This is the only thing I'm not to concrete on...

 

[BOBBY_G]

i dont think it matters, depends what you are trying to achieve

people say it takes off 2 hours so if you want to have 14/10+FR to have an 'effective' night of 12 hrs with 14 hrs for a better yield, or 12/12+FR for an effective 14 hr night to maybe promote finishing

 

[pookat]

I'm using a PWM cycle of 300 microseconds on, 150 off now. So far so good. I don't want to use a 50% duty cycle because the light would be too dim. Mine is a 66%. In the off part it actually only goes down to 10% brightness, like most drivers, so it works out to about 70% of full light in total. I doubt it will produce more growth than the average of the on/off cycles but I needed to dim it anyway and that was the most precise way to do it.

i use this for the pwm but use an opto-isolater instead of the irf 740, VR1 change's charge rate of C1 for the freq from 47pf upto about 47nf depending on what freq you whant, vr2 alters the pulse width from 0% up, out put's just under + rail voltage (about 9.v), i use it for all sort's of scary stuff (rotating magnetic field's are fun and make weird plant growth), the load will need a different power line.
if it's any use Enjoy

 

[Airwalker16]

i dont think it matters, depends what you are trying to achieve

people say it takes off 2 hours so if you want to have 14/10+FR to have an 'effective' night of 12 hrs with 14 hrs for a better yield, or 12/12+FR for an effective 14 hr night to maybe promote finishing

I'm a little lost ..

 

[BobCajun]

dude you are the only one disagreeing and you are the only that's using an incandescent black light to get a bit of far red light. everybody else had enough sense to deploy a few 730nm far red leds.

Fine, believe that if you want. Seems a little odd though that a flash of far red after a flash of red cancels the flowering preventing effects of the red flash if far red itself prevented flowering, wouldn't you say? I guess you figure scientists who wrote about that just made it all up to screw with us. Here's another page which shows this.

 

[BobCajun]

i use this for the pwm but use an opto-isolater instead of the irf 740, VR1 change's charge rate of C1 for the freq from 47pf upto about 47nf depending on what freq you whant, vr2 alters the pulse width from 0% up, out put's just under + rail voltage (about 9.v), i use it for all sort's of scary stuff (rotating magnetic field's are fun and make weird plant growth), the load will need a different power line.
if it's any use Enjoy

I use an Arduino Nano with an optocoupler and a 250 ohm resistor between the Arduino positive output and the positive input on the coupler. You just have to reverse the "high" and "low" when you program it because the coupler reverses it.

BTW, earlier I mentioned that blue light might act like FR. I just a while ago found an article that says that it actually acts like red light, it will prevent flowering in short day plants. Weird but true, at least when the light is on for 4 hours in the middle of the night like in the article.

 

[pookat]

Cool, am gonna have to save up for summat else now as well as a camera, this forum's getting to be expensive, haha

 

[BobCajun]

Cool, am gonna have to save up for summat else now as well as a camera, this forum's getting to be expensive, haha

The little Arduino Nanos are very cheap, I paid $8. They sell them for making small robots. You can usually find somebody who sells them from home locally on some buy/sell site. If you already have an optocoupler you just need the resistor, which you probably have. Here's the code I used. You can change the numbers to whatever you want. For milliseconds instead of microseconds you just remove the microseconds part. It's milliseconds by default.

void setup()
{
pinMode(13, OUTPUT);
}

void loop()
{
digitalWrite(13, HIGH);
delayMicroseconds(150); // Approximately 66% duty cycle @ 2.22KHz
digitalWrite(13, LOW);
delayMicroseconds(300);
}