Yields at differant PPFD?

[Stephenj37826]

Would not be surprised

The only thing I really don't like about this industry. Man I come from a different world. Not sure I'll ever adapt to the lower standard people stoop to these days. I really hate the new internet generation. I guess you've adapted and accepted the culture that a man's word has no meaning. I don't appreciate being called a liar and I wouldn't be surprised if you where some 20 something know it all that is still shittin yellow. In the mean time I'll just bow out and post proof as in pics when the 10x20 gorrilas are all set up.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

COBS have a 50k hours span when driven low. When driven how we srive them we half the life. I can find the citation.

25,000 hour lifespan? Good luck with that citation. You'll need it.

 

[Greengenes707]

How long did it take for the farmer/farmers to make a decision to switch? I assume they used hps prior. Did they do a test run on one or a few lamps first?

One room then the other 4. Now onto their other locations. Waiting on bars.

Looks like a testing area not a warehouse GG. Like I said if COBS come down in price its all over, but for Now ROI isnt there.
Also like I said Lighting companies no offence at all, but they tend to plug they're products.
PS love the new PLC light bar coming out soon.
All I am saying is a 20k space in DE vs CXB on ROI isnt comparable for investors.

You asked for a 20Kw setup...I showed you a 25Kw setup normally...50 cx300's per room. And now you say it's just testing?
That is one of 5 rooms that used to be filled 22-25Kw of hps each.
They had a room all spectrum kings. They had a room all DEs. They had a room mixed sk and DE and that was the best...till they started using cx300. Got rid of their DEs, sk's and converted the rooms cx300 and want the last one with bars now.

So not sure what to do when I show you exactly what you asked for with even a little more...then it's not good enough.

So whatever dude. I have gone given you free and extensive info all day. As well as answered every question you have asked to the T with absolute and difinative answers.
But you know best...oh wait I said what you are going on now in my first post in this thread...as well as where to get it further from other sources...gavita.
So again...you know best. Show us all your greatness.

 

[BuddyColas]

If your in an area where electric is high as hell then yes COBS are a very good idea however in America and Canada and Commercial growers get cheaper prices so again COBS ROI isnt there.
Also COBS will last 3-6 years.
So sure you will have to replace the DE bulb every 2 years,but when you have to replace a WHOLE WAREHOUSE of COBS, thats another huge investment.
Lets say 130 per DE light to replace, but many many many COBS need replaced.
Again COBS are bad for ROI.
There is no arguing ROI on COBS currently. Price is too high currently for ROI over DE.
Once COBS come way down its all over for sure for DE and Any other lighting system, but until then DE wins for ROI.
Please show me a warehouse full of COBS, not just some small timr lighting builder claiming without proof to advert his product even more.
I am all for COBS over DE IF price is down due to ROI.
Electric is not as expensive as COB builders make it out to be.
In a warehouse you dont need AC but youll need heat thats for sure.
Anyways, Im finished debating this.
Lets keep this thread on topic of PPFD vs yield.

You could lead the way on this one and stay on topic. You are immune to facts, logic and pictures. And speaking of pictures, you have none. 2 pounds out of a 3x3? You are just hot air until we see some pics.

 

[dandyrandy]

I know I love mine. I've done well for diy just following along.

 

[Traplife]

USING PPFD ALONE IS NOT COMPARABLE
To illustrate this... an extreme (but common) example comparison is to compare high pressure sodium (HPS) to a targeted spectrum LED (ie mostly red with 10% blue). If both have an "average" 600 PPFD in an otherwise identical setup, then the LED system is going to have a buttload more gpw than the HPS system. In very simple terms, this is because the HPS spectrum has a high percentage of green light and green light over above 24% is ignored (reflected) by plants (this is why plants are green).

I thought PPFD uses Photosynthetic photon flux? Meaning it measures light only in the photosynthetic spectrum of plants. So the readings would be comparable under either light because it is measuring the light that is able to be photosynthesized by plants. Forgive me if i am wrong that is just what i believed.

 

[BOBBY_G]

Where do these people get this shit?!
Cites and sources....PLEASE

EDIT: Look up LM-80 Testing.

3070s 90%+ lumen maintenance raiting is so far out they just say ">36000 hours" ( thats 9 years of 12 hour days).....and thats 1400 mA at 85C case temp.....

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/XLamp Application Notes/LM80_Results.pdf

 

[kmog33]

Pictures worth a thousand words, right? X10 lux meter reads just above 1500.. So 1,500 foot candles and over 15,000 lumens. I'm in 3x2' ft. Is this good, bad, could be better? What u guys think? What does this mean for my PPFD? Thanks.. This is under 4 cxb3590View attachment 3668965

I think if you angle the sensor at your light instead of perpendicular you'll get a better reading. But that is pretty low light level.

 

[BOBBY_G]

I thought PPFD uses Photosynthetic photon flux? Meaning it measures light only in the photosynthetic spectrum of plants. So the readings would be comparable under either light because it is measuring the light that is able to be photosynthesized by plants. Forgive me if i am wrong that is just what i believed.

ppfd is generally measured straight across from 400-700 and not weighted towards the more photosynthetically-efficient reds and blues. so yellow and green light is part of ppfd, but is 10+% less efficient than red or blue light

 

[BOBBY_G]

I think if you angle the sensor at your light instead of perpendicular you'll get a better reading. But that is pretty low light level.

its lumens, it kind of means nothing in regard to ppfd

 

[BOBBY_G]

Looks like a testing area not a warehouse GG. Like I said if COBS come down in price its all over, but for Now ROI isnt there.
Also like I said Lighting companies no offence at all, but they tend to plug they're products.
PS love the new PLC light bar coming out soon.
All I am saying is a 20k space in DE vs CXB on ROI isnt comparable for investors.

why is the economics at 20K any different than at 1K?

5 year cost of gavita = $500+ 4 bulbs+ some reflectors = $1000
5 year cost of 640W of cob to replace gavita = $1450

annual cost to run the gavita = 4380 hrs x 1.15kW x $0.15= $755
annual cost to run the cobs = 4380 hrs x 0.64kW x $0.15= $420

multiply that x20 if those numbers dont work
figures above do not account for the massive amounts of AC to cool all the additional heat from the HPSs

payback is ~2 years in most cases

 

[BOBBY_G]

25,000 hour lifespan? Good luck with that citation. You'll need it.

over 90% lumen maintenance at 36000 per cree's standardized testing.

pg. 35:

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/XLamp Application Notes/LM80_Results.pdf

 

[JorgeGonzales]

over 90% lumen maintenance at 36000 per cree's standardized testing.

pg. 35:

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/XLamp Application Notes/LM80_Results.pdf

Yeah, I was thinking of exactly those numbers. They are great.

And >35k is because they can only extrapolate up to 6x the tested hours according to those testing standards. Some of the 10k hour have L90s at 50k+, with ambient temps of 85C.

 

[BOBBY_G]

Yes. at 1400 ma and temps below 50C... well lets just say in 10 years you'll be replacing them with more efficient dollar cobs from the hardware store....

 

[cdgmoney250]

3070s 90%+ lumen maintenance raiting is so far out they just say ">36000 hours" ( thats 9 years of 12 hour days).....and thats 1400 mA at 85C case temp.....

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/XLamp Application Notes/LM80_Results.pdf

Oh yes. I'm well aware of Cree's test data

I was just curious where the links were going to come from to back his bogus theories...

 

[BOBBY_G]

25,000 hour lifespan? Good luck with that citation. You'll need it.

I think he meant "COBS have a 50k hours lifespan when driven hot. When driven how we drive them we double the life."

 

[GroDank101]

Pictures worth a thousand words, right? X10 lux meter reads just above 1500.. So 1,500 foot candles and over 15,000 lumens. I'm in 3x2' ft. Is this good, bad, could be better? What u guys think? What does this mean for my PPFD? Thanks.. This is under 4 cxb3590View attachment 3668965

I found the answer here https://www.rollitup.org/t/cxb-3590-36v-or-72v.878016/ quoted from @SupraSPL "Running them at 50W probably a more reasonable value for most builds, so you could do 4 on an HLG-185H-C1400

4 CXB3590 3500K CD bin 49W, 56.3% efficient = 196 dissipation W = 110 PAR W *.9 losses = 99.3 PAR W into the canopy and 85.7W of heat into the heatsink
in a 2X2 = 24.8 PAR W/ft² or 1235 PPFDaveraged (very high intensity maybe too high unless dimmed)
in a 2X3 = 16.6 PAR W/ft² or 823 PPFDaveraged (high intensity, excellent buds)" thx everyone

 

[Abiqua]

If you're measuring a single point, converting to ppfd just tells you the same point. To calculate average ppfd, take total lumen output(4x 8,900), divide by square meters of your space (6 sq ft / 10.7), and multiply by conversion. (.0145)

If using kilolumens just multiply by 14.5


There's another way with par watts and something, lumen output is usually just easier to find.

that conversion is wrong

 

[Atulip]

I've seen between .014 and .015. Close enough accuracy for me.

I just cross checked with tastyled ppfd values and lumens output and it looks pretty close. I got ppfd of 1064 for 2 of these in a m2 using the lumen value.

http://www.tastyled.com/product-p/t3-2100r.htm

 

[Abiqua]

I've seen between .014 and .015. Close enough accuracy for me.

I just cross checked with tastyled ppfd values and lumens output and it looks pretty close. I got ppfd of 1064 for 2 of these in a m2 using the lumen value.

http://www.tastyled.com/product-p/t3-2100r.htm

I get it and thats fine, but ultimately it is incorrect. Just like you cannot correlate lumens of different K temps...In some cases you will be a ok, in others you will move drastically away from the mean very quickly, just something I found out....I was using a bluetooth controlled Arduino luxmeter for awhile and finally just dropped it. Calibration was relatively useless for this task imho....