10billion for a fence vs... Well you know..

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Here is how this works. A 20' fence prevents anyone who doesnt own 2 25' ladders from getting across. Then you have a gap and another fence. In the gap you have motion sensing and/or seizmic equipment that notifies you of a breach.

In various locations along the border will be monitoring stations with border patrol that respond to any attempts at crossing.

Not guaranteed to stop 100% of the traffic but if it takes out 90% I will be satisfied.
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YEAH SMALL GOVERNMENT FUCK YEAH!

but how do we stop the other 60% who come here legally and overstay a visa?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
So who is going to pay for that?
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The taxpayers who pay for everything. Same system as now, students could go to public school or they could get a voucher that is paid to a private school. The schools would be required to meet state standards.

This would allow competition and best practices would be developed for future schools.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
The taxpayers who pay for everything. Same system as now, students could go to public school or they could get a voucher that is paid to a private school. The schools would be required to meet state standards.

This would allow competition and best practices would be developed for future schools.
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So you are ok with the government paying private entities for education? Even religious ones? Did you know the Nation of Islam runs schools?
You want to pay for them?
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
The taxpayers who pay for everything. Same system as now, students could go to public school or they could get a voucher that is paid to a private school. The schools would be required to meet state standards.

This would allow competition and best practices would be developed for future schools.
Click to expand...
Viewed from up here in space, the Nation nor the States is in control of it's standards...
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
If I hate poor kids why am I not advocating for defunding public schools like you are?
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You are happy to leave them no choice but a shitty education from a monopoly of failure.

I advocate giving them a choice if they are unhappy with the education provided by the state.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
You are happy to leave them no choice but a shitty education from a monopoly of failure.

I advocate giving them a choice if they are unhappy with the education provided by the state.
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And yet Voucher schools and Religious schools don't want state standards to apply to them. That is how we end up with voucher schools that don't teach anything and take field trips to Mcdonalds
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
  • JOEL McNALLY | state columnist
  • Apr 9, 2011
The vicious scam behind Milwaukee’s school voucher program now is becoming public for all to see. The program is about to take another ugly turn transferring money from our neediest students to the most privileged.

It was always suspicious that right-wing Republicans were enthusiastically supporting a tax-funded government program they claimed would help poor children of color receive a quality education.

Historically, the right has consistently fought tax funds going to people in need, especially those of other races. The only government programs they support are huge tax cuts and corporate welfare benefiting the wealthy.


For two decades, voucher supporters resisted testing of poor children receiving private school vouchers to track their performance. Now we all know why.

The first comparison of voucher students to their matched counterparts in Milwaukee Public Schools shows the publicly stated premise of the voucher program is a fraud.

Poor children using tax vouchers to attend private schools are not receiving a better education than students with a similar background attending public schools. In fact, they perform worse on state achievement tests.

The academic researchers hired by the state to examine the results later tried to fuzz up those numbers, saying some children do about the same.

But the fact remains we’ve spent billions of tax dollars for private school vouchers over 21 years, and private schools aren’t any more successful than public schools in educating children of color and closing the state’s appalling black-white achievement gap.

The voucher results look even worse when you consider private schools routinely shun special needs children, leaving them to the public schools to educate.

According to the researchers, only a minuscule 1.5 percent of voucher students have special needs, compared to nearly 20 percent of MPS students.

So working with the most promising of impoverished students from Milwaukee — those without special needs who have highly motivated parents searching for better schools for their children — voucher schools fail completely to deliver any educational improvement.

The reaction of supporters to this first concrete evidence of the failure of the voucher program has been brazenly dishonest.

First, they continued their long-held opposition to voucher school students being required to take state achievement tests. Republican Gov. Scott Walker is attempting to kill the requirement.

Apparently, if the public doesn’t know voucher schools are failing to improve the academic performance of poor children, supporters think they can continue taking tax money away from public schools and shoveling it into private schools forever.

A subtle shift in rhetoric by voucher supporters is even more insidious. Supporters of the program now pretend it doesn’t matter whether poor children do better academically in voucher schools or not.

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The point is, they say, low-income parents now have more choices available to them. Of course, a choice that doesn’t produce any better results isn’t much of a choice.

And get this. They say even if voucher students don’t do any better, the program is still a tremendous success because it accomplishes the same poor result at half the cost.

We all need to remember the history of two separate systems of education in this country, one public and the other private.

Public schools were the great democratic guarantee to every child in America. Every child, regardless of economic circumstances, was promised a comprehensive basic education to get started on the path to success in life.

Because we all benefited economically whether we had children or not, we all paid for public schools through our taxes.


Beyond that basic guarantee, the most privileged among us always want more for their own children and have the financial ability to provide it. So they set up a private school system for their own children and paid for it 100 percent themselves.

Fair enough, so far.

But the voucher program started confusing those two systems. Suddenly, taxes from all of us were subsidizing private schools that were not open to everyone.

Even though we weren’t putting as much tax money into private schools for each student as the full cost of education in public schools, we were still providing a nice, fat subsidy.

Remember, private schools previously had to raise 100 percent of their funds from among their own supporters. Anything they got from tax vouchers was gravy.

Now it’s become obvious the promise that private schools would provide a better education for low-income children was just a ruse using poor children as pawns.

Not only have voucher schools failed to improve the academic performance of those children, but in his next two-year budget, Gov. Walker let the other boot drop.

Walker wants to start lifting income restrictions for private school vouchers and ultimately abolish them entirely.

With taxpayers supporting two educational systems instead of one, funds for public schools where needs are the greatest are drastically reduced and, suddenly, a government program sold as a benefit to the poor becomes just another tax giveaway to the wealthy.

Joel McNally of Milwaukee writes a regular column for The Capital Times. [email protected]
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
And yet Voucher schools and Religious schools don't want state standards to apply to them. That is how we end up with voucher schools that don't teach anything and take field trips to Mcdonalds
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If the school doesnt follow standards it gets it's license revoked. If it doesnt provide a certain level of education it gets it's license revoked.

If the entire school system wasnt failing you might have some ground to stand on. You are happy with no choice for parents or students.
 
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