This LED Light claiming 210w draw but 1000w equivilent??

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Ecosunlite CREE LED said:
Around View attachment 3689299 USD 600 , you can get one full cree led which equal to 1000W HPS . Not claim , it really do .
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Ecosunlite CREE LED said:
USD 600 , if you get it , think it's not equal to 1000W HPS , ask money return through paypal .
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Specifications and spectrum output graph, please! We the users of RIU have seen more than our fair share of grand claims made with little supporting data, and so you will understand our reluctance to simply take you at your word.
 
malicifice

malicifice

Well-Known Member
gubblebum said:
Ah sorry didnt realize there was an LED section! Looking through it now! I'd much prefer to grow using HID but, I'd say I'm safely limited to around 2000w of lights in my 2 bedroom apartment so I'm thinking how I can get more yield without raising suspicion on electricity usage!

So I'm thinking

HID Vertical grow SOG or Horizontal and LED lights if they allow you say get close to double output per watt. My worries about a vertical SOG is the first grow or 2 I wont be sure about spacing and will get less yield than a traditional SOG.
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Why are you worried about your usage? Unless your not in a legal situation or state, electric companies don't give a shit as long as you pay your bill. I get where your coming from though, if you got your bases covered it's unneeded worry. The only reason I see to go led is cost for usage. Fuck PG&E and their level 4 usage bullshit. Edison in southern California doesn't pull that bull shit.
 
EarthBow

EarthBow

Member
Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.

LEDs have much higher up front costs, but much lower operating costs. With HID, you have to figure in the cost of replacement ballasts, bulbs, and increased energy usage... over the life of the system. Secondary costs like increased AC cost and others factor in too.

Those of us growing on a small scale for personal use look at it a little differently. The "stealth" benefit of using a lot less watts can make up for the higher up front cost. LED systems can also run much quieter. There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, LED seems to be the way to go.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
EarthBow said:
Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.
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BINGO! THIS, right here. If LED can do this for commercial growing, then commercial facilities will have little reason NOT to be interested. At any price, because the price of grams produced supports the upfront cost.
 
G

gubblebum

Well-Known Member
Wow this really turned into a debate!!! Im just dreaming/hypothesizing really about what would be the most efficient way to maximize yield in a SOG with a 2000w limit. So 2000w of LED vs 2000w of HID vertical...

So I've concluded vertical would likely average say 1 gram per watt for an average grower with large plant numbers in a smaller floorspace.

LED seems to say around 1 gram per watt also BUT I dont think its suitable for a vertical setup?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
gubblebum said:
Wow this really turned into a debate!!! Im just dreaming/hypothesizing really about what would be the most efficient way to maximize yield in a SOG with a 2000w limit. So 2000w of LED vs 2000w of HID vertical...

So I've concluded vertical would likely average say 1 gram per watt for an average grower with large plant numbers in a smaller floorspace.

LED seems to say around 1 gram per watt also BUT I dont think its suitable for a vertical setup?
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Lol
 
bravedave

bravedave

Well-Known Member
@EarthBow
Bingo. Commercial growers shouldn't be all that concerned with grams per watt because grams are worth so much more than kilowatt hours. A better metric for commercial growers is yield per square foot.

Certainly seems to put things on an even footing.

LEDs have much higher up front costs, but much lower operating costs. With HID, you have to figure in the cost of replacement ballasts, bulbs, and increased energy usage... over the life of the system. Secondary costs like increased AC cost and others factor in too.

I am about to start year three having purchased only 3 bulbs. None over $50. Ballast is still running without a hiccup. While my bulb use may not be optimal i have continued to produce dank stuff and my yields continue to improve. 8 months out of the year I am adding heat to my room. There are only 2 months that I wish I had AC, but I manage without. So temperature wise the advantage goes to HPS as I would be adding even more heat if I were running LED. Not to overlook that humidity would be more of an issue with LED, not burning it off and thus needing energy for more dehumidification. That certainly cuts into the often claimed 30% LED energy advantage. LED systems also do not come with lifetime guarantees. Don't the lights themselves have a 50000 hour lifespan or only about 5x more than most HID?

Those of us growing on a small scale for personal use look at it a little differently. The "stealth" benefit of using a lot less watts can make up for the higher up front cost. LED systems can also run much quieter. There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, LED seems to be the way to go.

Not sure what you consider "small scale" but lets say 1000w. The power company isn't going to sweat a 10 amp increase in someones power usage. Not sure about the quieter, either. LED users still exhaust their tents/rooms, right?...that and the dehumidifier I run are the noisemakers...I see no advantage there. "There's no "one size fits all" answer, but for me, HID seems to be the way to go"
 
EarthBow

EarthBow

Member
I'm not an LED salesman, so I'm not trying to convince anyone to make the switch. If you can make use of the additional heat, then HID is probably right for you.

Let's crunch some numbers just for the hell of it...

Let's say a 300 watt LED is roughly the equivalent (in light output) of a 600 watt HID, but used 1/2 the electricity. Let's also say that the LEDs will last 30,000 hours (even though i have seen ratings from 50,000 to 100,000 hours)

Running 12/12 cycles for 9 weeks is about 750 hours. 30,000 / 750 = 40, so you should see 40 harvests out of the LEDs. If you run 5 crops a year, this would be 8 years.

300 watts for 30,000 hours is 9,000 kwh. Energy cost would depend on your local rates...

9.000 kwh @ .10 = $ 900
9.000 kwh @ .1258 = $1,132 (US National Average)
9.000 kwh @ .15 = $1,350
9.000 kwh @ .20 = $1,800

Since a 600 watt HID fixture would consume twice the energy over the same period of time, we can see that the energy cost of running LEDs is equal to the savings. For example, if you pay 15 cents per kwh, a 300 watt LED will cost $1,350 less to run over its life. This difference alone more than offsets the higher up front cost.

So the cost of a 600 watt HID fixture (looked at over 8 years) is the original cost of the fixture, plus its energy usage, plus a replacement bulb a year, plus at least one replacement ballast.

Or roughly...
Cost of hood, ballast, light $ 200
Energy @ .15/kwh 2,700
1 replacement bulb/year 350 (7 x $50)
1 replacement ballast 75
total $ 3325

And the cost of the LED...
Initial cost of fixture $ 900 (300 "wall watt" HydroGrow Sol 6)
Energy @ .15/kwh 1,350
total $2,250

Unless I am missing something? If I'm wrong, I would appreciate someone taking the time to help me get my head out of my ass. Thanks!
 
potpimp

potpimp

Sector 5 Moderator
I love the pot plants pix at the bottom of their page. They don't make any bones about it. From my experience, LED's are great for vegging but I've got to upgrade my lights to flower. The COB would do the job.
 
redzi

redzi

Well-Known Member
Several brands of LED are sold on Amazon....it's feedback is a good source of info on what to buy. The question and answer boards are also informative.
 
bravedave

bravedave

Well-Known Member
EarthBow said:
I'm not an LED salesman, so I'm not trying to convince anyone to make the switch. If you can make use of the additional heat, then HID is probably right for you.

Let's crunch some numbers just for the hell of it...

Let's say a 300 watt LED is roughly the equivalent (in light output) of a 600 watt HID, but used 1/2 the electricity. Let's also say that the LEDs will last 30,000 hours (even though i have seen ratings from 50,000 to 100,000 hours)

Running 12/12 cycles for 9 weeks is about 750 hours. 30,000 / 750 = 40, so you should see 40 harvests out of the LEDs. If you run 5 crops a year, this would be 8 years.

300 watts for 30,000 hours is 9,000 kwh. Energy cost would depend on your local rates...

9.000 kwh @ .10 = $ 900
9.000 kwh @ .1258 = $1,132 (US National Average)
9.000 kwh @ .15 = $1,350
9.000 kwh @ .20 = $1,800

Since a 600 watt HID fixture would consume twice the energy over the same period of time, we can see that the energy cost of running LEDs is equal to the savings. For example, if you pay 15 cents per kwh, a 300 watt LED will cost $1,350 less to run over its life. This difference alone more than offsets the higher up front cost.

So the cost of a 600 watt HID fixture (looked at over 8 years) is the original cost of the fixture, plus its energy usage, plus a replacement bulb a year, plus at least one replacement ballast.

Or roughly...
Cost of hood, ballast, light $ 200
Energy @ .15/kwh 2,700
1 replacement bulb/year 350 (7 x $50)
1 replacement ballast 75
total $ 3325

And the cost of the LED...
Initial cost of fixture $ 900 (300 "wall watt" HydroGrow Sol 6)
Energy @ .15/kwh 1,350
total $2,250

Unless I am missing something? If I'm wrong, I would appreciate someone taking the time to help me get my head out of my ass. Thanks!
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First, do you have an LED setup anything like you describe?
 
bravedave

bravedave

Well-Known Member
EarthBow said:
Not as I described, no, but i do run LEDs in flowering.
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Cool. Not going to accept that a 300W LED equals a 600w HID, though. I think the general consensus is a 30% power usage advantage, not 50%, to match yields. So, we are looking at a 420w LED System then.

Still using the 8 year and $.15kW, my power number doesn't change: $2700. Yours however then is 70%*2700= $1890 or $810 in electricity savings or about $100 per year.

Your purchase price goes up also. 300w for $900 has the 420w coming in at about $1260. Right? So your total now is $1890+$1260= $3150.

Again, mine has not changed so we are talking $3325 vs $3150 or $175 advantage after 8 years. With the HID holding the advantage into the 7th year.

Show me a non-scrogged 300w LED grow that can pull 1.5 lbs in that 9 weeks and we can turn this over again.

Edit: This also ignores the financial advantage of having $1060 still in my pocket to make decisions with that first year after the HID system purchase.
 
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EarthBow

EarthBow

Member
Yeah, fair enough. It's probably closer than I thought.

If you live in Cali and pay closer to .30 or .35 per kwh, then it seems like LEDs might be the way to go, especially when you factor in the cost of the additional AC to make up for extra heat of the HIDs.

I'm paying .17 per kwh, but then again, I didn't plunk down $900 for my LEDs. I wanted to try them out a year or so ago and got 4 Mars 300s for less than 300 total. In a 4x4 tent, it's almost too much light and slaughters my 600 watt HID fixture in terms of production, but draws about 560 from the wall total. I highly doubt they will last 30,000 hours, but it was a cheap way to get mt feet wet, so to speak.

My next LED adventure will be building some DIY Cree COB units, which I am going to build into stripped down 4' fluorescent fixtures. I mentioned this project (under my YouTube name) to GrowMau5, but he said he's too busy to do it. If I ever get around to building them, i think the fluorescent fixtures

I've
 
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