Noob question about PH use I can not find anywhere.

Have you ever used both PH solutions in 1 mix before?

  • Yes

  • No

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Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
I see and hear people say once you use Ph up or down that you can not reverse it with the other if you go to far. Why can't you use PH up if you used too much PH down in your mix? I'm almost sure its not a toxic mixture.. am I wrong? I have not done it myself but have wasted a lot of water by tossing it and starting over. I am going to feel foolish if it don't matter and I have been wasting my limited stored water supply of bubbled water. Only holds 10 gallons which is just enough for a good flush if needed.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
When adjusting PH, always add small amounts at a time. Allow some time for reactivity. If you do add too much of one you CAN add the other to bring it back. It does NOT affect things. But, that being said, what is the PH before adjustment? Hydro or Soil or Soilless? 5.5-6.5 is a good range to deal with. It's NOT an exact science. Never has been. Never will. Think of it this way......"How does Mother Nature deal with PH issues?" She is self correcting. Plants also will to one extent or the other adjust the PH value to their preference. Over feeding causes a low PH value in your Media. Under feeding(mostly never happens) creates a higher value. PPM shouldn't exceed the wattage being used. General rule of thumb. There are some exceptions to this rule---genetics-age/size of your plant.

Salt based ferts. are made for immediate uptake. Designed to push. Organics are more of a time release. To be taken over time. When she's ready.

Personally, We do NOT use PH adjusters. EVER. It's un-necessary. And over rated. Some will scoff at this comment. BUT, let me assure you that with 30+ years experience this is where we ended up. Once you understand how to mix, how to apply the food and how the plants react to it. It becomes pure candy. Also-------read up on beneficial microbes and fungi. These are the true secret to organic gardening. Microbelife, Oregonismxl, Mykos, Buffaloam, Morm castings, Humus, etc.........



Your environment directly affects how your babies will feed and drink. Control, control, control. Always apply less. Allow time for her to react to it. Less is more.
Keep in mind----not all genetics like the same food. Some prefer organics over all else. Some prefer salt based products over organics. Always start small. Let the garden tell you what's up.

2 number one issues that most people go thru----Too much light. Too much food.
good luck....
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
As the gardener, it is your job to flower. Anyone can veg a plant to perfection. It's all about the flowers. Understanding that mother nature has perfected this process over eons and eons. You can not reinvent the wheel.
Understand there is such a thing as TOO MUCH light. So always choose wisely. Larger flowers are not always better. Quality always trumps quantity. Finding that happy medium is the trick. That takes time and patience. So be patient. Be proactive. Be a good gardener and pay attention to ALL the little details along the way. They add up in the end.
There is a starting line and there is a finish line. Forget the finish line. Pay attention to the little things happening right in front of you. The finish line will be here before you know it. Less is more. An undeniable fact that usually takes a life time to procure.
 
Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
My water before adjustment is 7.6 and I use vinegar to lower it to 6.2. My Ph up is better quality Olympus Up natural calcite.
Last grow I used salts and had lots of problems at about 5 week flower that went downhill till week 7 and I just cut it. (sadly)
Now I think im going to try the organics part of this line only and see what happens. I hope its better. (I have the entire foxfarm 12 pack and foxfarm OF soil)
Everyone says its hot but it does awesome for about 3 weeks with just water after transplanting. Its something im doing or not doing that's the problem. Adding too much or not adding the right stuff.
Just learned about Epson salts so am also going to try adding a teaspoon per gallon water once every couple weeks and see if that helps.
 
Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
Organic_CropKing_ :) said:
As the gardener, it is your job to flower. Anyone can veg a plant to perfection. It's all about the flowers. Understanding that mother nature has perfected this process over eons and eons. You can not reinvent the wheel.
Understand there is such a thing as TOO MUCH light. So always choose wisely. Larger flowers are not always better. Quality always trumps quantity. Finding that happy medium is the trick. That takes time and patience. So be patient. Be proactive. Be a good gardener and pay attention to ALL the little details along the way. They add up in the end.
There is a starting line and there is a finish line. Forget the finish line. Pay attention to the little things happening right in front of you. The finish line will be here before you know it. Less is more. An undeniable fact that usually takes a life time to procure.
Click to expand...
Sometimes painful lessons.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
Shawn Dotson said:
My water before adjustment is 7.6 and I use vinegar to lower it to 6.2. My Ph up is better quality Olympus Up natural calcite.
Last grow I used salts and had lots of problems at about 5 week flower that went downhill till week 7 and I just cut it. (sadly)
Now I think im going to try the organics part of this line only and see what happens. I hope its better. (I have the entire foxfarm 12 pack and foxfarm OF soil)
Everyone says its hot but it does awesome for about 3 weeks with just water after transplanting. Its something im doing or not doing that's the problem. Adding too much or not adding the right stuff.
Just learned about Epson salts so am also going to try adding a teaspoon per gallon water once every couple weeks and see if that helps.
Click to expand...

Ok....fox farm is a great choice. They are right it is hot. It is designed for 10footers that are outdoors. BUT, with a little practice this product will produce delicious results. I promise. That being said...use pro-mix hp or sunshine #4 instead of their soils. These are soilless medias.....no burn formula. It's your job to give them what they need when they need it. The potting soils will affect how the products work, usually not in a good way. Less is more. Big bloom is the only true organic part of the line. Be careful of the grow big---hot, hot, hot. Also, do not use more than a quarter teaspoon of the powders per gallon of water. Drives PH way low, drives ppm way HIGH.

Do not use vinegar to adjust. It will NOT hold adjustment. That's an OLD SCHOOL way of doing it. Use General Hydroponics, Earth juice naturals or even the adjusters from nectar of the gods. MORE STABLE.

Epsom salts should only be used if you infact have what I call a Magnesium Hog. Sparingly...always.

what wattages do you use? Air cooled - non air cooled? Projection or penetration? Distance from light to canopy?

The week 5 story is a very common thing that happens. Over feeding shows up as a deficiency usually about week 3-5 in most cases. People immediately feed more thinking that's what they need only to further compound the situation......Always mix nutrients first before adjusting PH, ALWAYS.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
Shawn Dotson said:
Sometimes painful lessons.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
Learning from those mistakes is the key. We all make mistakes. We all don't learn from them.

I've been around it for over 30yrs. I've seen some tragedy in my day. I manage a Hydro store and have MANY students following my advice. Never have I had anyone come back with negative comments to any advice I give. Never. Not once. I hope I can give you the pointers you are looking for. Ask anytime. Any question---that pertains to All things Cannabis. Start to finish I will advise if you seek it. Keep in mind that it may take a few days for me to get back to you, usually very busy. I always reply.

Good luck!!
 
Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
I have a 3x3x6 foot tent with 1000 watts Mars Hydro LEDs but only use 750 watts. 3 panels but only use 2. I don't have a fan in the tent but I run an A/C in room so it only gets up to 76 degrees else the fan only runs if it gets cooler. Also have a wind tunnel fan cross blowing so plant only ever gets a mild breeze. Lights are usually between 12-18 inches away.

I open 1/4 of the tent including the top of the tent during the light cycle. Good for venting the little heat that does come from the led panels.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
Shawn Dotson said:
I have a 3x3x6 foot tent with 1000 watts Mars Hydro LEDs but only use 750 watts. 3 panels but only use 2. I don't have a fan in the tent but I run an A/C in room so it only gets up to 76 degrees else the fan only runs if it gets cooler. Also have fan wind tunnel fan cross blowing so plant only ever gets a mild breeze. Lights are usually between 12-18 inches away.
Click to expand...
Ever get white blotches on the vegetation? Do you like LED's?
 
mr sunshine

mr sunshine

Well-Known Member
Shawn Dotson said:
I have a 3x3x6 foot tent with 1000 watts Mars Hydro LEDs but only use 750 watts. 3 panels but only use 2. I don't have a fan in the tent but I run an A/C in room so it only gets up to 76 degrees else the fan only runs if it gets cooler. Also have a wind tunnel fan cross blowing so plant only ever gets a mild breeze. Lights are usually between 12-18 inches away.

I open 1/4 of the tent including the top of the tent during the light cycle. Good for venting the little heat that does come from the led panels.
Click to expand...
Its not a 1000 watt that only uses 750. It's a 750 watt light fixture. Comparable to a 600 hps. It's definitely not comparable to a 1000 watt hps though. That's just a marketing gimmick.
 
VenomGrower6990

VenomGrower6990

Well-Known Member
Organic_CropKing_ :) said:
Ok....fox farm is a great choice. They are right it is hot. It is designed for 10footers that are outdoors. BUT, with a little practice this product will produce delicious results. I promise. That being said...use pro-mix hp or sunshine #4 instead of their soils. These are soilless medias.....no burn formula. It's your job to give them what they need when they need it. The potting soils will affect how the products work, usually not in a good way. Less is more. Big bloom is the only true organic part of the line. Be careful of the grow big---hot, hot, hot. Also, do not use more than a quarter teaspoon of the powders per gallon of water. Drives PH way low, drives ppm way HIGH.

Do not use vinegar to adjust. It will NOT hold adjustment. That's an OLD SCHOOL way of doing it. Use General Hydroponics, Earth juice naturals or even the adjusters from nectar of the gods. MORE STABLE.

Epsom salts should only be used if you infact have what I call a Magnesium Hog. Sparingly...always.

what wattages do you use? Air cooled - non air cooled? Projection or penetration? Distance from light to canopy?

The week 5 story is a very common thing that happens. Over feeding shows up as a deficiency usually about week 3-5 in most cases. People immediately feed more thinking that's what they need only to further compound the situation......Always mix nutrients first before adjusting PH, ALWAYS.
Click to expand...
Look at u one huge knowledge base. Some of it makes sense but ones opinion. Just like my opinion that FFOF rocks it. I use the Lucas Formula and it works for me.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
VenomGrower6990 said:
Look at u one huge knowledge base. Some of it makes sense but ones opinion. Just like my opinion that FFOF rocks it. I use the Lucas Formula and it works for me.
Click to expand...

Lol....been around awhile...
Their soils are great soils. Don't get me wrong, I like them. BUT because they are so rich nutrient overlap is very easy to achieve. Especially when you're using a complete line of nutrition. The soilless medias compensate for this. Allows gardener to cater to the plants 'specific' needs. This is where the best results have been obtained.

I used Fox soils for years. Good results. A good place for people to start their journey. For some this is where they will stay because it works and because it's easy. I say if ain't broke don't fix it. If someone wants to break thru to the next level, well they won't achieve it where they are. Just saying... Sometimes we just like to be challenged.

My information base runs wide and deep. All points are proven. I do not know it all. Nor do I claim to. I am well rounded though. Always open to different points of view, always. It's what makes me so good. I listened. Now I teach those that taught me.

Started in soil. Did the Hydro thing. Back to where all things started. Organics all they way.

Happy gardening.
 
Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
mr sunshine said:
Its not a 1000 watt that only uses 750. It's a 750 watt light fixture. Comparable to a 600 hps. It's definitely not comparable to a 1000 watt hps though. That's just a marketing gimmick.
Click to expand...
I meant that I have 3 led panels that equal 1000 watts but only use 2 panels that total 750 watts but yes, I know what your saying.
 
O

Organic_CropKing_ :)

Member
mr sunshine said:
Ffof isn't hot, I start seeds in it all the time.
Click to expand...
It is hot. By gardening standard. Some genetics aren't bothered by it though. Ocean is indeed a hot product. I've seen mature plants burn right up with it. They have dialed it back sometime along the last 6-8 years. Not like it used to be. It is a good product. BUT, what works for you may not work for others. I used it for years. Good product. Just isn't what I prefer.

Happy gardening.
 
Shawn Dotson

Shawn Dotson

Member
Organic_CropKing_ :) said:
Ok. Let me ask you a question. Why? Why do you like the LED's? I want to hear your take on them.......................please.
Click to expand...
Well, I chose them for the heat factor. This 1000 watt total probably produces less heat than a 100 watt normal light bulb. The energy cost is ridiculously low. Probably less than $20 a month. Can plug them into my wall without having to worry about blowing or over heating circuits. They work great for living in an apartment. Just my opinion.
 
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