Adding cal to jacks

Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
With soft water what would be the best option of adding cal to jacks citrus 20-10-20 (that to my knowledge already has mag and other micro).

Calnesium 2-0-0 - Has cal, mag, zinc and one or two other micro. Rec 2ml pL - what ratio would you recommend in use with jacks?.

or

Growers edge / 14.4% nitrate - 1.1% ammon / 26.3% Cal Ca0. Rec 2ml pL - What ratio would you rec use alongside jacks?.
 
DraculaReactor

DraculaReactor

Member
There is no substitute for Jack's Professional Hydroponic with Cal nitrate. I wouldn't recommend the citrus because I haven't tried it, but I've been using the Jack's 3-2-1 formula with calcium nitrate and epsom salt for years and I have never, ever burnt a plant and my yields are unparalleled.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
DraculaReactor said:
There is no substitute for Jack's Professional Hydroponic with Cal nitrate. I wouldn't recommend the citrus because I haven't tried it, but I've been using the Jack's 3-2-1 formula with calcium nitrate and epsom salt for years and I have never, ever burnt a plant and my yields are unparalleled.
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I should have added this is with light mix soil.

None the less what kind of ratio are you using the cal nitrate to the jacks prof?.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Still open to suggestions, even perhaps another type of jacks that can be better mixed with N-cal ratios
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Still open to suggestions, even perhaps another type of jacks that can be better mixed with N-cal ratios
Click to expand...

Jack's 5-12-26 Hydroponic. Use it along side Calcium Nitrate, just as the directions state.

With that product, the way you control N concentration is directly through use of Calcium Nitrate and maybe Urea if you'd like.

So, for example:
13 oz per 100 gallons 5-12-26 Hydroponic = ~50 ppm N.
9 oz per 100 gallons Calcium Nitrate = ~100 ppm N.

I can go much more in depth later tonight, if you'd like.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
Jack's 5-12-26 Hydroponic. Use it along side Calcium Nitrate, just as the directions state.

With that product, the way you control N concentration is directly through use of Calcium Nitrate and maybe Urea if you'd like.

So, for example:
13 oz per 100 gallons 5-12-26 Hydroponic = ~50 ppm N.
9 oz per 100 gallons Calcium Nitrate = ~100 ppm N.

I can go much more in depth later tonight, if you'd like.
Click to expand...
I would certainly like that ty. I take it the hydro version is ok for light mix soil during both veg/bloom and still has mag and other micro neuts in it?.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
70's natureboy said:
Isn't soft water full of salt? Doesn't sound good for plants.
Click to expand...
Soft water means low ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium. Hard water means high ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium.


Flowki said:
I would certainly like that ty. I take it the hydro version is ok for light mix soil during both veg/bloom and still has mag and other micro neuts in it?.
Click to expand...
There's no way to say what is the best for you when growing in soil without a soil quality test.

Anyway, here's a breakdown of Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16

First off, let me move back to metric units. 13 oz/100gal ~ 1g/L

So, 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic will provide you with the following nutrient concentrations in distilled water:

Total Nitrogen - 50 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 0 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

Now, for the calcium nitrate. Calcium nitrate fertilizers are a 15.5-0-0 + 19%Ca.
1.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 232 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

1 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 155 ppm
Calcium - 190 ppm

0.75 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 116 ppm
Calcium - 142 ppm

0.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 77 ppm
Calcium - 95 ppm

Alright. Now we know what both can provide us. But, that doesn't really tell us what we should really be using.

So, lets just get a starting point. I chose 1 g/L for a reason.

At 1 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate, we get a complete blend that has the following concentrations:

Total Nitrogen - 205 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 190 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

This ends up being a really good and balanced veg stage fertilizer blend. It's not too concentrated and is not going to stress the plants that much. You will see good strong growth.

Now, if you want to increase the concentration of Nitrogen from here, often times, you may be told to use more calcium nitrate. Like increasing calcium nitrate to 1.5 g/L with your 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

This would have the following effect on the blend I just showed:
Total Nitrogen - 282 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

Personally, I find 285 ppm calcium to be too high. So, instead of adding more calcium nitrate, I would add some Urea. Urea is a 46-0-0 fertilizer. I would add 0.15 g/L of urea. 0.15 g/L of urea will add 69 ppm of nitrogen to your fertilizer blend.

Total Nitrogen is now 274 ppm

But, ya know, good flowering/bloom fertilizer blends are lower in nitrogen in relation to everything else. So, lets see how we would create that.

First, I'm going to add 0.75 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate. Got to keep that nitrogen down.

Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 162 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 195 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 62 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

Alright, so this changed a lot. But, the important thing is, we dropped our nitrogen down by a lot. Don't worry about the micronutrients, you'll be fine with a small drop like that. What you do want to pay attention to though, is potassium. We need to get that potassium back up to where it was, maybe a little higher even.

We're going to use Potassium Sulfate for this. Potassium Sulfate is a 0-0-52 +18%S.

Lets add 0.25 g/L of Potassium Sulfate. This adds the following:
Potassium - 108 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 130 ppm)
Sulfur - 45 ppm

This changes the completed feeding solution to the following:
Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 270 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 325 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 107 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

To reduce your nitrogen concentration even further, you'll have to use even less calcium nitrate. So, dropping calcium nitrate to 0.5 g/L will reduce your nitrogen by 39 ppm, down to 115 ppm. Remember though, that this also drops calcium concentration by 47 ppm. You aren't that likely to have a calcium deficiency at this point, but if you do, just add back some of that calcium nitrate.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
Soft water means low ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium. Hard water means high ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium.




There's no way to say what is the best for you when growing in soil without a soil quality test.

Anyway, here's a breakdown of Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16

First off, let me move back to metric units. 13 oz/100gal ~ 1g/L

So, 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic will provide you with the following nutrient concentrations in distilled water:

Total Nitrogen - 50 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 0 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

Now, for the calcium nitrate. Calcium nitrate fertilizers are a 15.5-0-0 + 19%Ca.
1.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 232 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

1 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 155 ppm
Calcium - 190 ppm

0.75 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 116 ppm
Calcium - 142 ppm

0.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 77 ppm
Calcium - 95 ppm

Alright. Now we know what both can provide us. But, that doesn't really tell us what we should really be using.

So, lets just get a starting point. I chose 1 g/L for a reason.

At 1 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate, we get a complete blend that has the following concentrations:

Total Nitrogen - 205 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 190 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

This ends up being a really good and balanced veg stage fertilizer blend. It's not too concentrated and is not going to stress the plants that much. You will see good strong growth.

Now, if you want to increase the concentration of Nitrogen from here, often times, you may be told to use more calcium nitrate. Like increasing calcium nitrate to 1.5 g/L with your 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

This would have the following effect on the blend I just showed:
Total Nitrogen - 282 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

Personally, I find 285 ppm calcium to be too high. So, instead of adding more calcium nitrate, I would add some Urea. Urea is a 46-0-0 fertilizer. I would add 0.15 g/L of urea. 0.15 g/L of urea will add 69 ppm of nitrogen to your fertilizer blend.

Total Nitrogen is now 274 ppm

But, ya know, good flowering/bloom fertilizer blends are lower in nitrogen in relation to everything else. So, lets see how we would create that.

First, I'm going to add 0.75 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate. Got to keep that nitrogen down.

Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 162 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 195 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 62 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

Alright, so this changed a lot. But, the important thing is, we dropped our nitrogen down by a lot. Don't worry about the micronutrients, you'll be fine with a small drop like that. What you do want to pay attention to though, is potassium. We need to get that potassium back up to where it was, maybe a little higher even.

We're going to use Potassium Sulfate for this. Potassium Sulfate is a 0-0-52 +18%S.

Lets add 0.25 g/L of Potassium Sulfate. This adds the following:
Potassium - 108 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 130 ppm)
Sulfur - 45 ppm

This changes the completed feeding solution to the following:
Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 270 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 325 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 107 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

To reduce your nitrogen concentration even further, you'll have to use even less calcium nitrate. So, dropping calcium nitrate to 0.5 g/L will reduce your nitrogen by 39 ppm, down to 115 ppm. Remember though, that this also drops calcium concentration by 47 ppm. You aren't that likely to have a calcium deficiency at this point, but if you do, just add back some of that calcium nitrate.
Click to expand...
That's very helpful abd exactly what I asked for thanks a lot mate. For simplicity though, I read people use 20-20-20 or 20-10-20 the entire way from start to end, that's the appealing part and reason for wanting this brand. So I am assuming your first ratio being around a 2-1-2.5 ish? ratio is also applicable, gradually reducing cal nitrate from week 6 perhaps (of a short cycle).

I was also just not sure if hydro based is applicable to soil. I kind of understand/recall hydro requires nitrate based only? while I assume soil can use both?.
 
Last edited:
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
That's very helpful abd exactly what I asked for thanks a lot mate. For simplicity though, I read people use 20-20-20 or 20-10-20 the entire way from start to end, that's the appealing part and reason for wanting this brand. So I am assuming your first ratio being around a 2-1-2.5 ish? ratio is also applicable, gradually reducing cal nitrate from week 6 perhaps (of a short cycle).

I was also just not sure if hydro based is applicable to soil. I kind of understand/recall hydro requires nitrate based only? while I assume soil can use both?.
Click to expand...
You touch upon something that I think everyone should know and understand. You mention people using a 20-20-20 or 20-10-20 or the stuff I showed above or whatever. Feeding your plants fertilizer is in every way, not natural. Regardless the fertilizer blend you use, they will experience vigorous growth with an extremely wide range of fertilizer blends. As long as you aren't deficient or give it too much, you'll be fine.

Now, in regards to hydro vs soil. All fertilizer programs should have more nitrate nitrogen than ammoniacal nitrogen. All methods of growth can use both. You can get away with using more ammoniacal nitrogen in soil.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
You touch upon something that I think everyone should know and understand. You mention people using a 20-20-20 or 20-10-20 or the stuff I showed above or whatever. Feeding your plants fertilizer is in every way, not natural. Regardless the fertilizer blend you use, they will experience vigorous growth with an extremely wide range of fertilizer blends. As long as you aren't deficient or give it too much, you'll be fine.

Now, in regards to hydro vs soil. All fertilizer programs should have more nitrate nitrogen than ammoniacal nitrogen. All methods of growth can use both. You can get away with using more ammoniacal nitrogen in soil.
Click to expand...
All is answered, thnx mate.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
questiondj42 said:
The Tomato FeED has calcium.
Click to expand...
Looked briefly into it and the ratio would still require use of a N fert. Have you used this tomato product?. It also seems to have been able to mix all npk cal and mag. How is it able to do that when many others can not?.
 
questiondj42

questiondj42

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Looked briefly into it and the ratio would still require use of a N fert. Have you used this tomato product?. It also seems to have been able to mix all npk cal and mag. How is it able to do that when many others can not?.
Click to expand...
I have not used the tomato product yet, but I can say that using Citrus FeED on my vegetable garden has led to blossom end rot on two varieties of tomatoes. Blossom end rot is a calcium deficiency. I may try the Tomato product, but I suspect that I'll just use Dynagro for everything. Using Jack's in a siphon mixer is very expensive.
 
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