Outdoor SIPs

Humanrob · May 26, 2016

(wikipedia.com definition of a SIP)

This is totally an open thread, I'll give updates on my progress and hope others out there are trying things too. Mine are DIY, but any SIP grow is welcome here. This thread is just about working with SIPs outside, not about any specific design.

My overall goal for my outdoor grow this summer is to have a bunch of short fat bushes that are easy to cover from fall wind and rain, and easy (or easier) to move if need be. So I'm keeping all the pots on the small side, my SIPs use 5 to 10 gallons of soil. I have five of them, most of them are variations, only the smallest two 5 gallons are the same exact design.

I have my first SIPs running in my indoor grow, and they are about 5 weeks into flower. These are my first outdoor SIPs. This is 100% experimental... and I've already made some questionable judgement calls. My first bad call was starting a month too early. Both weather-wise, and in terms of having small plants in small pots that don't get root-bound in a long grow season, I should have started a month later. Oh well, upward and onward.

My "experiments" are completely non-scientific. Sorry. Not that organized. It's a somewhat random mix of plants, some from seeds and some from clones. The closest thing I have to a "control group" is going to be hit or miss -- I have one LSD in a 10 gallon SIP, and one in a 10 gallon regular cloth pot. The problem is that I haven't sexed them, so come August one or both might end out being boys, and there goes any direct comparison I might have had. It is what it is.

But that doesn't really bother me, because I'm already sold on the benefits of SIPs, so I'm not that interested in proving they are better. Everything has benefits and drawbacks, and I'm more interested in finding out if there are down-sides to SIPs. So far I've been researching keeping the res water in a functional state. I'm not sure what else to look out for...

Here are some basic pics of the SIPs and the plants in the garden. Feel free to ask any questions, of course.

Rocket Soul · Jun 11, 2016

Subbing this, looks nice, updates?

Humanrob · Jun 11, 2016

Rocket Soul said:
Subbing this, looks nice, updates?

LOL... Hey Rocket Soul, it seemed like this thread was the sound of one hand clapping so I let it go. I made an update recently in another thread, but it was in the Indoor section, so I'll basically copy it to here.

Here's a current look at my outdoor SIPs. There is a lot of summer left, but so far they're all alive and well. Four of the five are from clones, one is from a seed. The one from seed (an LSD) has twice the mass of the others, as plants from seeds tend to. I have another LSD in a 15 gallon cloth pot, they are similar in size, that will be the only interesting (somewhat) direct comparison -- a SIP with a 10 gallon pot over a 5 gallon res vs a 15 gallon pot (assuming both turn out to be girls and go the distance). For what its worth, they are both cloth pots.

The weather this year has been insane. In May we had 90º days, and now in June -- when we rarely get rain -- rain is in the forecast for the next ten days and the highs are mostly in the 60's. It's like we had a chunk of August fall into May, and now we're having early May in early June. That said, the SIPs are handling it well. I was concerned that the cloth pots might dry out faster than the wicks could pull water to keep them wet, but after three consecutive days with temps between 90º and 100º, they were fine, never had to top water. As you can see in the pics below, I did cover the surface with straw and wrap the black cloth pots in burlap.

Here's the LSD in the SIP and the one in the regular cloth pot. The 15g cloth pot is nested in a larger plastic one sunk into the ground, and the SIPs res is similarly dropped into the ground up to the overflow hole.

This shot shows the LSD from seed on the right, and a Jillybean from a clone on the left. Big difference. The LSD literally drinks twice as much as the others.

The gray pot is a Gorilla Glue #4, the next one is the Jillybean, after that is a Bruce Banner #3.

The BB is in one of the first SIPs I made, a #7 pot slid into a 5 gallon res bucket, it only holds about 1.5 gallons of water. I have two that size but I doubt I'll use those again for cannabis, maybe next year for tomatoes or something else. This year they hold clones from the indoor I'm currently running, so they were the lowest priority and got the small container experiment.

Thanks for stopping by

Rocket Soul · Jun 11, 2016

Humanrob said:
LOL... Hey Rocket Soul, it seemed like this thread was the sound of one hand clapping so I let it go. I made an update recently in another thread, but it was in the Indoor section, so I'll basically copy it to here.

Here's a current look at my outdoor SIPs. There is a lot of summer left, but so far they're all alive and well. Four of the five are from clones, one is from a seed. The one from seed (an LSD) has twice the mass of the others, as plants from seeds tend to. I have another LSD in a 15 gallon cloth pot, they are similar in size, that will be the only interesting (somewhat) direct comparison -- a SIP with a 10 gallon pot over a 5 gallon res vs a 15 gallon pot (assuming both turn out to be girls and go the distance). For what its worth, they are both cloth pots.

The weather this year has been insane. In May we had 90º days, and now in June -- when we rarely get rain -- rain is in the forecast for the next ten days and the highs are mostly in the 60's. It's like we had a chunk of August fall into May, and now we're having early May in early June. That said, the SIPs are handling it well. I was concerned that the cloth pots might dry out faster than the wicks could pull water to keep them wet, but after three consecutive days with temps between 90º and 100º, they were fine, never had to top water. As you can see in the pics below, I did cover the surface with straw and wrap the black cloth pots in burlap.

Here's the LSD in the SIP and the one in the regular cloth pot. The 15g cloth pot is nested in a larger plastic one sunk into the ground, and the SIPs res is similarly dropped into the ground up to the overflow hole.

View attachment 3705291 View attachment 3705287

This shot shows the LSD from seed on the right, and a Jillybean from a clone on the left. Big difference. The LSD literally drinks twice as much as the others.

View attachment 3705288

The gray pot is a Gorilla Glue #4, the next one is the Jillybean, after that is a Bruce Banner #3.

The BB is in one of the first SIPs I made, a #7 pot slid into a 5 gallon res bucket, it only holds about 1.5 gallons of water. I have two that size but I doubt I'll use those again for cannabis, maybe next year for tomatoes or something else. This year they hold clones from the indoor I'm currently running, so they were the lowest priority and got the small container experiment.

View attachment 3705292 View attachment 3705289 View attachment 3705293

Thanks for stopping by

Loving the sips for outside. Still only tomatos and various in mine, which is a bit weak, but i wont do outdoor yet, wanna try to weasel myself into using the roof on top of my flat, 55 m2, so keeping a low profile until i can get my neighboors ok.

The plants in sips can take allday sun, and here in Barcelona things are allready intense. The ones without sip i have to give a little shade midday inodrer for them to ve happy. I wonder if the same indoor, if they can take a higher ppfd. Also, extremly visible growth difference between standard sips, ocotpot style, and the other bottomwatered tomatos abd its just been 2 weeks. Im trying to convince my mate who grows pro to make a small test with them.

Humanrob · Jun 11, 2016

Rocket Soul said:
Loving the sips for outside. Still only tomatos and various in mine, which is a bit weak, but i wont do outdoor yet, wanna try to weasel myself into using the roof on top of my flat, 55 m2, so keeping a low profile until i can get my neighboors ok.

The plants in sips can take allday sun, and here in Barcelona things are allready intense. The ones without sip i have to give a little shade midday inodrer for them to ve happy. I wonder if the same indoor, if they can take a higher ppfd. Also, extremly visible growth difference between standard sips, ocotpot style, and the other bottomwatered tomatos abd its just been 2 weeks. Im trying to convince my mate who grows pro to make a small test with them.

Do you notice a difference between the Octopot and 'standard' SIPs? Is this your first year running them? I'm also curious about root development differences between the two?

From my little experience, it is true indoors too. One of my plants in a SIP in my tent grew so tall that its way closer to my light than any plant I've grown before, and its handling it without a problem. My UV lights are attached to my COB fixture, and even that proximity is not burning it. So I think it does give them more resilience.

Rocket Soul · Jun 11, 2016

Humanrob said:
Do you notice a difference between the Octopot and 'standard' SIPs? Is this your first year running them? I'm also curious about root development differences between the two?

From my little experience, it is true indoors too. One of my plants in a SIP in my tent grew so tall that its way closer to my light than any plant I've grown before, and its handling it without a problem. My UV lights are attached to my COB fixture, and even that proximity is not burning it. So I think it does give them more resilience.

When i said standard sip i meant the one i made myself, sorta based on octopot: not too deep about 2-3'' of water, similar wick size, with arlite balls and dirt in the wick. The other ones, pot sitting in a tray w arlite balls in the tray and in the bottom of the pot, water covering about the first half inch of the pot in tray. The octo-based is much better looking, full of tomatos in just a couple of weeks, the other is ok, but not winning any prices, and cant take full day sun. As for roots, the only observation i have is this; on repotting 2 basils, i had one with just dirt, rootbound, and the other had a layer of arlite (not sure of eng name, in spqnish its arlita, these brown ceramic balls for gardening) under the dirt. Well, it was much easier to untangle the bottom roots from the second one, so im thinking it will root better, seeking itself towards the ress. Its a accidental experiment as they are now sitting side by side, will get back when i have some result.

As for the tomatos, still no water roots on either. And yes, first run, your sip thread, and the wgole idea of not being able to kill my plants w water, was the motivator. Will get a stealthcab for october or something, now only veggies. But you can train fiming/topping as much as u like with basil, and supercrop/lst mint, just happy to do something as only reading about dank with no application sucks.

How long did it take ur plants to grow water roots? And in what size?

Humanrob · Jun 11, 2016

Rocket Soul said:
When i said standard sip i meant the one i made myself, sorta based on octopot: not too deep about 2-3'' of water, similar wick size, with arlite balls and dirt in the wick. The other ones, pot sitting in a tray w arlite balls in the tray and in the bottom of the pot, water covering about the first half inch of the pot in tray. The octo-based is much better looking, full of tomatos in just a couple of weeks, the other is ok, but not winning any prices, and cant take full day sun. As for roots, the only observation i have is this; on repotting 2 basils, i had one with just dirt, rootbound, and the other had a layer of arlite (not sure of eng name, in spqnish its arlita, these brown ceramic balls for gardening) under the dirt. Well, it was much easier to untangle the bottom roots from the second one, so im thinking it will root better, seeking itself towards the ress. Its a accidental experiment as they are now sitting side by side, will get back when i have some result.

As for the tomatos, still no water roots on either. And yes, first run, your sip thread, and the wgole idea of not being able to kill my plants w water, was the motivator. Will get a stealthcab for october or something, now only veggies. But you can train fiming/topping as much as u like with basil, and supercrop/lst mint, just happy to do something as only reading about dank with no application sucks.

How long did it take ur plants to grow water roots? And in what size?

This is my first run with these, and I haven't attempted to lift the pot off of the res and look at the roots. The lids aren't that rigid, and honestly I won't do it unless I need to... which I might. The way our yard design is moving, long story but I probably will need to move them, so I'll have to pull them apart to do that. If anyone is around to take the pic while I'm lifting it off, I'll post the picture. From what I've read in different threads, cannabis roots will hit the res pretty quickly, and within a couple of weeks just take off with new growth.

My indoor is in its last weeks. I have not been able to lift the plants up to check the roots there because of the scrog, but I'm thinking I'll get some pics after I break it down to clean it when the run is done.

Humanrob · Jun 11, 2016

I read once that plants from seed (can) do better than clones in the ground outdoors because they develop a true tap root. I wonder if that also lends itself to SIPs, if a plant from a seed somehow can better utilize the res? So far that seems to be the case with mine, but I only have the one from seed so its not significant evidence.

Rocket Soul · Jun 11, 2016

No worries if its a bitch to check. Looking forward to see the finish of ur indoor. Now, some r&r for me.

Bama Dan · Jun 11, 2016

Humanrob said:
(wikipedia.com definition of a SIP)

This is totally an open thread, I'll give updates on my progress and hope others out there are trying things too. Mine are DIY, but any SIP grow is welcome here. This thread is just about working with SIPs outside, not about any specific design.

My overall goal for my outdoor grow this summer is to have a bunch of short fat bushes that are easy to cover from fall wind and rain, and easy (or easier) to move if need be. So I'm keeping all the pots on the small side, my SIPs use 5 to 10 gallons of soil. I have five of them, most of them are variations, only the smallest two 5 gallons are the same exact design.

I have my first SIPs running in my indoor grow, and they are about 5 weeks into flower. These are my first outdoor SIPs. This is 100% experimental... and I've already made some questionable judgement calls. My first bad call was starting a month too early. Both weather-wise, and in terms of having small plants in small pots that don't get root-bound in a long grow season, I should have started a month later. Oh well, upward and onward.

My "experiments" are completely non-scientific. Sorry. Not that organized. It's a somewhat random mix of plants, some from seeds and some from clones. The closest thing I have to a "control group" is going to be hit or miss -- I have one LSD in a 10 gallon SIP, and one in a 10 gallon regular cloth pot. The problem is that I haven't sexed them, so come August one or both might end out being boys, and there goes any direct comparison I might have had. It is what it is.

But that doesn't really bother me, because I'm already sold on the benefits of SIPs, so I'm not that interested in proving they are better. Everything has benefits and drawbacks, and I'm more interested in finding out if there are down-sides to SIPs. So far I've been researching keeping the res water in a functional state. I'm not sure what else to look out for...

Here are some basic pics of the SIPs and the plants in the garden. Feel free to ask any questions, of course.

View attachment 3691745 View attachment 3691740 View attachment 3691739 View attachment 3691738

So after many many hours of reading and watching...5 gallon buckets for outside grow is the ticket hu?

Humanrob · Jun 11, 2016

Bama Dan said:
So after many many hours of reading and watching...5 gallon buckets for outside grow is the ticket hu?

I'm not sure there is a one-size-fits-all right answer. At the end of the summer, I'll decide whether I use them again or try something else. My using them in my initial SIPs was simply motivated by the fact that inexpensive "homer buckets" at Home Depot are 5 gallon buckets, seemed as good a place to start as any.

Humanrob · Jun 16, 2016

Random observations

Right now I have 5 plants in SIPs, and three in cloth pots. The three in cloth pots have all had ongoing issues with being too wet or too dry. Granted, the weather has been totally fucked up and I did some experiments with the soil, but the SIPs have been subjected to the same weather and similar soil. The plants in SIPs have not had a bad day.

The two plants I have in smaller SIP containers are thin and stretchy compared to the others. They are in pots labelled "#7" -- which is apparently code for a 5 gallon pot. But they are taller thinner plastic pots (ones I used because they fit halfway into a 5 gallon paint bucket, and that was the first design I tried). The rest are in 10 gallon cloth pots, and the plants are significantly fuller - they have easily twice the amount of foliage - even though they are all similar heights. I've seen some discussions on pot shape and most people say "shorter/wider" is better, I would now say that is definitely my experience.

Rocket Soul · Jun 17, 2016

Humanrob said:
Random observations

Right now I have 5 plants in SIPs, and three in cloth pots. The three in cloth pots have all had ongoing issues with being too wet or too dry. Granted, the weather has been totally fucked up and I did some experiments with the soil, but the SIPs have been subjected to the same weather and similar soil. The plants in SIPs have not had a bad day.

The two plants I have in smaller SIP containers are thin and stretchy compared to the others. They are in pots labelled "#7" -- which is apparently code for a 5 gallon pot. But they are taller thinner plastic pots (ones I used because they fit halfway into a 5 gallon paint bucket, and that was the first design I tried). The rest are in 10 gallon cloth pots, and the plants are significantly fuller - they have easily twice the amount of foliage - even though they are all similar heights. I've seen some discussions on pot shape and most people say "shorter/wider" is better, I would now say that is definitely my experience.

Nice observation on short/wide. Although with a lot of other differences in pot (material and total volume 5vs10) its hard to draw a definite conclusion.
Short and wide makes common sense; if the wick will water the pot in a gradient from wetter to drier as you approach surface; there will be an optimum moisture layer somwhere in the pot. The wider the pot the bigger and more voluminous this layer will be.

Rocket Soul · Jun 17, 2016

Coming back from a few days outta town with spanish summer weather; plants in the sips allright but rather dry. Tomatos bulging with fruit and really droopy. Mint seemed shocked; withering old growth, new growth with small healthyish leaves and very short internodes. Anyway all back ton fine now.

My unplanned root experiment gave results: had 2 basils, 1 rootbound in soil, 1 rootbound in soil but with a bottom layer of arlite stone/balls. On replanting them i noticed how the arlite would just fallout leaving a rootball that was much more fluffy and less compacted on the bottom. A week after, first waterroots on the arliteplant, nothing on the other. Similar growth times and pots before replanting. Maybe not the revolutionary info but good to know. Also does it apply to mj? Not sure but would think so

Humanrob · Jun 17, 2016

Rocket Soul said:
Nice observation on short/wide. Although with a lot of other differences in pot (material and total volume 5vs10) its hard to draw a definite conclusion.
Short and wide makes common sense; if the wick will water the pot in a gradient from wetter to drier as you approach surface; there will be an optimum moisture layer somwhere in the pot. The wider the pot the bigger and more voluminous this layer will be.

That's true, I did wonder if the volume had as much impact as the shape. I might have misattributed my conclusions. And good point about the shape of the pot and the dry layer as a percentage of the soil based on distance from the wick. Short and wide might be more important for SIPs specifically. And interesting observation regarding the arlite medium, thanks for sharing that.

We've had a very cold wet spring, but in a couple of days the sun is finally supposed to come out. Usually in Oregon right around June 1st its like someone flipped a big switch, and the sun comes out and stays out basically until mid-September. Still waiting for that phenomenon this year, four days from Summer Solstice.

Humanrob · Jun 17, 2016

We were rearranging the garden, and I had to move two SIPs. When I lifted them out, my wife shot a quick pick of the wicks for me. The GG#4 (from a clone) went into its pot May 18th, the LSD (from seed) went into its pot on May 14th. You can see the wicks are of different materials. There is a small amount of root showing on the GG#4, nothing on the LSD.

It has been cold and rainy, so some development has probably been slowed down. Also, it is possible that roots are in the wick but have not emerged, there's no way to know. The corrugated shape of the LSD wick might be causing the roots to wrap.. but I'm just making shit up now. So there it is, about a month in the sips and I have great growth above ground (especially considering the weather!!!), but not much at all showing below the water line.

Sorry about the lousy pic, in a rush this morning. Here's a quick one of the to whole plants -- LSD on the left, GG#4 on the right, and a sad messed up purple stemmed faded leaf LSD in a 15 gal cloth pot in the middle.

madininagyal · Jun 18, 2016

NiCe thread I think I wil make 2 5gal sip just to test one for tomato and the other thug pugs genetic meatbreath

I have some question
1) what are your medium?
2) do you feed them nutrients? Is it possible with an organic soil?

Humanrob · Jun 18, 2016

madininagyal said:
NiCe thread I think I wil make 2 5gal sip just to test one for tomato and the other thug pugs genetic meatbreath

I have some question
1) what are your medium?
2) do you feed them nutrients? Is it possible with an organic soil?

So far I'm doing the same setup (basically) outside that I'm doing inside. I've been packing the wick with a coco/peat moss mix, and then putting that on the bottom inch or so of the pot. Then I fill it the rest of the way with a Happy Frog/Fox Farms Ocean Forest mix. I add a lot of dry time release nutes, and some dolomite lime. A good starting point is checking out the videos and instruction on the Earthbox website.

madininagyal · Jun 18, 2016

Humanrob said:
So far I'm doing the same setup (basically) outside that I'm doing inside. I've been packing the wick with a coco/peat moss mix, and then putting that on the bottom inch or so of the pot. Then I fill it the rest of the way with a Happy Frog/Fox Farms Ocean Forest mix. I add a lot of dry time release nutes, and some dolomite lime. A good starting point is checking out the videos and instruction on the Earthbox website.

Thanks for the information I think with my base soil it will be good since its a mix of 30% peat moss 30%perlite 15% worm casting 15% compost the 10% left gonna be buildasoil.com nutrient kit I just need the soil to be moist for the life inside

Tim Fox · Jun 19, 2016

SUNDAY SUNDAY<<<< update day,,

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