Light Intensity; LED vs HID

[puffenuff]

Here are a few charts that show some PAR readings of (3) or (4) AT600 and (3) 1000w HPS over a 12x5 table. We can see the drop off from LEDs at the outer edges of the (3) AT600 table but there are higher values in the center so there's a trade-off to be considered there, but keep in mind it's ~1800w for the Apaches vs ~3000w on the Hortilux. (4) AT600s the drop-off isn't as significant and there's still a nice energy savings to be had.



Peace

 

[Resinhound]

Well i bought 2 se220's back in Sept. 2015,and this is the first time I've seen that page about the inverse square law.

One thing that strikes me as odd about amare is the fact they promote the fact they have a "cannabis specific spectrum" but really neglect to go into any detail about it whatsoever.. What exactly makes their use of common Cree diodes "cannabis specific"? If you look at the spectral analysis of the sun it basically looks like a shotgun approach, containing every wavelength from Low UV to high IR,Obviously nothing" specific" there.

Don't get me wrong amare makes a decent light that grows well, but the idea of a" cannabis specific" spectrum just rubs me the wrong way. All plants on earth evolved to grow under the same spectrum, the one produced by the sun.

I just can't believe there exists a "cannabis specific" spectrum anymore than a tomato specific or zucchini specific spectrum.. The idea is just preposterous to me as a person that possesses a fair degree of common sense.

There is a fair amount of marketing mumbo-jumbo at a work here, IMHO.

I found the amare light as to have plenty of intensity to grow with, too much with lenses intact for my use as a matter of fact. And in another application I would be happy to use them. But I still don't buy into all the specific spectrum nonsense.

I realize this as not a amare thread specially and im not intending to attack amare or hybridway in any fashion, just my opinion on the amare matter as the thread has seemed to shift into that area for a bit.

 

[Hybridway]

I can hear the Haters already but as crude as this vid is it shows pretty well the drop off many have been talking about in this thread

Great post! As you see, it's being ignored though due to lack of an open mind by many & the desire to argue. Great video showing the drop.
I think we should be talking more about this here rather then arguing over light spread. Which is optional to each person to do with as they please. It's opinion whether one wants to yield the most or just yield something.
But light drop is a fact that does deserve the attention of this thread.

 

[BM9AGS]

Here's a company where you can rent high end spectrometers and par meters and other cool stuff.

I might rent some things to test my bull headed thesis and shits and giggles.

I want to confirm my pure mathematical calculations based on this:

 

[monkeychief]

Whoosh

Of course, truth and facts mean nothing around here. If you guys are going to hate, get your facts straight so it will be more credible and convincing. Regarding Amare cramming a bunch of chips together to save on costs, there's always the Pro3/4 bar type @32" and 36", respectively. They use the same top-bin chips and drivers as others recommended here, but somehow they're not as efficient is pure comedy. I'm out of this BS discussion based on BS, ego and hate so it's pointless to debate. Good luck with whatever you choose ppl. Trust, but verify are the words of the day here.

@Resinhound. I think what they referring to is their spectrum includes uvb, ir and a blue bump that the factory 3000k COB spectrum lack. Their enhanced COB spectrum here's closer to natural sunlight than any other COB spectrum currently available. He's retired, all he does is grow weed and design his lights accordingly.

 

[PurpleBuz]

Here's a company where you can rent high end spectrometers and par meters and other cool stuff.

I might rent some things to test my bull headed thesis and shits and giggles.

I want to confirm my pure mathematical calculations based on this:
View attachment 3717149

This graphic clearly shows what cobs can achieve run softly with higher efficiency to provide even coverage and high intensity without major hotspots.

What perplexes me is why @BM9AGS didn't post this graphic instead of going off the inverse square tangent to begin with.


Is the horse dead yet?

 

[BM9AGS]

This graphic clearly shows what cobs can achieve run softly with higher efficiency to provide even coverage and high intensity without major hotspots.

What perplexes me is why @BM9AGS didn't post this graphic instead of going off the inverse square tangent to begin with.


Is the horse dead yet?

This thread was a result of me seeing all the anti-led-pro-hid advocates posting bigger colas. I have yet to see my grows come anywhere close to the size of my arm as is common to see on tall plants under HID.

My own personal grows with the osram zelionHLs and the go green 4xcx?3070 produced super dense large snickers sized colas and 3 foot down was nothing but popcorn. And for the ppfd is shouldn't be any less than taking a 1k watt and cutting down the foot print to a 4x3 foot area. And then the fact that I've yet seen a 6 foot tall bushy 1 lb plant under led. LED lighting, based on my experience and my conclusions from everyone's pictures tells me by logic that tho LED is king of SOG, HID still owns the 6 foot tall beasts with arm sized colas.

So I studied everything that I could find on lighting and intensity and based on ppfd readings from users here, ppfd charts online and inverse law I concluded that due to the reduced ppfd measurements that robincnn and many others took that hid has a much deeper base of high single point ppfd readings as opposed to LED which makes sense all together with my on grow questions.

My graphic is only 1 dimensional where as the reality of ppfd single point metering is that the 1k hid has higher ppfd at depth. Even tho it's foot print blows donkey balls.

 

[Airwalker16]

I really love this graphic.

 

[RM3]

This thread was a result of me seeing all the anti-led-pro-hid advocates posting bigger colas. I have yet to see my grows come anywhere close to the size of my arm as is common to see on tall plants under HID.

My own personal grows with the osram zelionHLs and the go green 4xcx?3070 produced super dense large snickers sized colas and 3 foot down was nothing but popcorn. And for the ppfd is shouldn't be any less than taking a 1k watt and cutting down the foot print to a 4x3 foot area. And then the fact that I've yet seen a 6 foot tall bushy 1 lb plant under led. LED lighting, based on my experience and my conclusions from everyone's pictures tells me by logic that tho LED is king of SOG, HID still owns the 6 foot tall beasts with arm sized colas.

So I studied everything that I could find on lighting and intensity and based on ppfd readings from users here, ppfd charts online and inverse law I concluded that due to the reduced ppfd measurements that robincnn and many others took that hid has a much deeper base of high single point ppfd readings as opposed to LED which makes sense all together with my on grow questions.

My graphic is only 1 dimensional where as the reality of ppfd single point metering is that the 1k hid has higher ppfd at depth. Even tho it's foot print blows donkey balls.

And I grow donkey dicks with T5's, like I said earlier plants don't do math. When growers start to learn that it is a total of all elements in the garden combined that actually matter. Then LED's will make da donkey dicks. But even then the debate will not stop

 

[Airwalker16]

And I grow donkey dicks with T5's, like I said earlier plants don't do math. When growers start to learn that it is a total of all elements in the garden combined that actually matter. Then LED's will make da donkey dicks. But even then the debate will not stop

Fluffy donkey dicks

 

[a mongo frog]

I really love this graphic.View attachment 3717208

Stop comparing shit bro. If you really think thats how DE performs your a slug. Theres no bout cobs perform great, if you don't think DE's perform great or perform to the picture you just posted your a double slug. You wouldn't understand how already outfitted hps rooms that are moved to DE fixtures are saving people money. Everyone on this site knows in the future cob fixtures are going to be the way to go. Out side of the RIU and a few other sites id never go to, hardly anyone knows about cob technology. Stop knocking DE's because really you have no clue. No one knocked your grow because you weren't a smart enough gardener to know about hot spots. Peace be with you, you sexy motherfucker.......

 

[JorgeGonzales]

@BM9AGS so what do you have over a 4x3 space again? Two fixtures?

 

[RM3]

Fluffy donkey dicks

That's why they always fall over, thanks for the input

 

[Atulip]

Fluffy donkey dicks

Did someone say fluffy donkey dicks?



Primarily under a shitty Mars, not the most dense nugs, but a lot of frosty organic smoke practically for free.

 

[JorgeGonzales]

Stop comparing shit bro. If you really think thats how DE performs your a slug. Theres no bout cobs perform great, if you don't think DE's perform great or perform to the picture you just posted your a double slug. You wouldn't understand how already outfitted hps rooms that are moved to DE fixtures are saving people money. Everyone on this site knows in the future cob fixtures are going to be the way to go. Out side of the RIU and a few other sites id never go to, hardly anyone knows about cob technology. Stop knocking DE's because really you have no clue. No one knocked your grow because you weren't a smart enough gardener to know about hot spots. Peace be with you, you sexy motherfucker.......

HPS is fine, for me at least it was this bizarre idea that 250W lights don't penetrate or have "intensity". As a matter of fact, HPS really "shines" up high and overlapping in warehouse settings. Even, intense lighting. Hard to argue with it.

 

[BM9AGS]

the graphic clearly shows that at the top of the canopy the ppfd for both scenarios has the same max ppfd. If they have the same ppfd at the same point at the top of the canopy, how can one have a higher ppfd than the other 12 inches below that same point ?

illogical.

Logical.
If I have a sniper rifle that shoots at 2500fps (gun 1) and one that shoots at 1500fps (gun 2) shooting the same powder and BC (ballistic coeficency), they will perform as these lights.

Now say gun 1 has to go out to 300 meters for that round to be at 1000fps where as gun 2 only goes to 60 meters to match the 1000 fps.

That gun 1 will take 100 meters for its Bullet to reach 500fps where as gun 2 will only take 20 meters.

See my logic.

 

[BM9AGS]

Stop comparing shit bro. If you really think thats how DE performs your a slug. Theres no bout cobs perform great, if you don't think DE's perform great or perform to the picture you just posted your a double slug. You wouldn't understand how already outfitted hps rooms that are moved to DE fixtures are saving people money. Everyone on this site knows in the future cob fixtures are going to be the way to go. Out side of the RIU and a few other sites id never go to, hardly anyone knows about cob technology. Stop knocking DE's because really you have no clue. No one knocked your grow because you weren't a smart enough gardener to know about hot spots. Peace be with you, you sexy motherfucker.......

Haha. Nice.
Not knocking DEs at all bro. I would love to have one. Just currently building a cxb rig now. And I always judge and compare....ask all my ex girlfriends.....I like upgrading but I always must study to ensure it's a better upgrade. If I didn't I'd be stuck with hot ass chicks that suck at cooking and are not whores in the bedroom.

 

[a mongo frog]

HPS is fine, for me at least it was this bizarre idea that 250W lights don't penetrate or have "intensity". As a matter of fact, HPS really "shines" up high and overlapping in warehouse settings. Even, intense lighting. Hard to argue with it.

I just got done using one in a corner of my already out fitted hps room. Yielded 2.25 units on a fire og cut. Out side of cookies i don't know of a smaller yielding strain. But as I've said when i first fired my DE, the motherfucker was hot, but i already had a good split in the room so i was fine. I cant talk about light penetration or what ever that even is being I've never fired a cob fixture.

 

[Resinhound]

View attachment 3717197

Of course, truth and facts mean nothing around here. If you guys are going to hate, get your facts straight so it will be more convincing. Regarding Amare cramming a bunch of chips together to save on costs, there's always the Pro3/4 bar type @32" and 36", respectively. They use the same top-bin chips and drivers as others recommended here, but somehow they're not as efficient is pure comedy. I'm out of this BS discussion based on BS, ego and hate so it's pointless to debate. Good luck with whatever you choose ppl. Trust, but verify are the words of the day here.

@Resinhound. I think what they referring to is their spectrum includes uvb, ir and a blue bump that the factory 3000k COB spectrum lack. Their enhanced COB spectrum here's closer to natural sunlight than any other COB spectrum currently available. He's retired, all he does is grow weed and design his lights accordingly.

Well it's easy to add those things to the spectrum, I do it as well. But I don't call it "cannabis specific" I call it complete.Closer to the sun? Heh maybe.. Closer then plain cobs I'm sure, but still no magic here. And still pretty far from sunlight I'm afraid. Like I said, it's a decent light but all the mumbo jumbo rubs me the wrong way.

 

[BM9AGS]

@BM9AGS so what do you have over a 4x3 space again? Two fixtures?

2 2 by 2 Zelion HL and the go green LEDs 4 cxb 3070

It was my old setup. Gave lights to friend. Now I have 16 cxb 3590