Light Intensity; LED vs HID

Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
The inverse square law is a bit of math most people won't be doing in their heads, but the idea behind it is relatively simple.

Raising a light in a non-reflective/open area will follow the square law, but things change when you add reflectivity to the walls. Reflective material isn't 100% effective so it's still a good idea to keep the light as low as possible and get as much light as possible direct to the canopy.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
http://www.enlightenedlighting.co.uk/resources/image-size-throw-distance-beam-angle-calculator

27 inch circle or so.
Click to expand...
Wow that's bigger than I need. My design only needs about 15" circle footprints. So that calculator you linked me says 10" for a 15" circle with 75deg lens.

I think that's too close with the Stella HBs judging by hand heat. I spaced my lights 15" apart to place the 7-800 ppfd in a 5x5 as my plan is to get a gavita and do a side by side for my own entertainment.
Thanks for that site.

I'm sure my sidewalk grow will be happy under the lenses.
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Wow that's bigger than I need. My design only needs about 15" circle footprints. So that calculator you linked me says 10" for a 15" circle with 75deg lens.

I think that's too close with the Stella HBs judging by hand heat. I spaced my lights 15" apart to place the 7-800 ppfd in a 5x5 as my plan is to get a gavita and do a side by side for my own entertainment.
Thanks for that site.

I'm sure my sidewalk grow will be happy under the lenses.
Click to expand...
Ah thought they were 60. I bet those will be great.
 
Hybridway

Hybridway

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
View attachment 3717324
Almost done....
Can't wait to ride black beauty in to the night.
Click to expand...
Great job! Wicked nice!
There's that even spread you're trying to determine the depth of reasonable penetration on!
I'd love to build one.
Only thing I'd do differant is run the COBs @ 70% power. Not that i know what you're doing, just assuming off what I read earlier & the popularity of running @ 40-50% I see.
75% Would increase your depth & im my eyes would be more efficient.
Eficiency = yield to me!
Real Nice!!!!!
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
Hybridway said:
Great job! Wicked nice!
There's that even spread you're trying to determine the depth of reasonable penetration on!
I'd love to build one.
Only thing I'd do differant is run the COBs @ 70% power. Not that i know what you're doing, just assuming off what I read earlier & the popularity of running @ 40-50% I see.
75% Would increase your depth & im my eyes would be more efficient.
Eficiency = yield to me!
Real Nice!!!!!
Click to expand...
They're at 50w each. They're efficiency actually goes down more wattage. It's dimmable down to 8 watts for the whole bar. But yes hind site I'd like the 1750b driver for 12 more watts per cob. Just gotta get a fan controller and fans for heatsinks and I could run these puppies much higher.
After this grow I'll know my way ahead.
 
Hybridway

Hybridway

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
They're at 50w each. They're efficiency actually goes down more wattage. It's dimmable down to 8 watts for the whole bar. But yes hind site I'd like the 1750b driver for 12 more watts per cob. Just gotta get a fan controller and fans for heatsinks and I could run these puppies much higher.
After this grow I'll know my way ahead.
Click to expand...
That's awesome! I'm Jelly!!!
Is that a wall to wall light in a tent?
If you go up 12w a cob on those sinks then they require fans & you'll be good?
I ask cuz I've seen pre made kits n they come w/ pin sinks made to handle a certain amount passively. But add the fans & you can crank em up some?! That makes me want to try even more. Cuz I wanna run em hard & was wondering how if their in a kit made to run soft.
Is this your first cob light & grow?
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
They're at 50w each. They're efficiency actually goes down more wattage. It's dimmable down to 8 watts for the whole bar. But yes hind site I'd like the 1750b driver for 12 more watts per cob. Just gotta get a fan controller and fans for heatsinks and I could run these puppies much higher.
After this grow I'll know my way ahead.
Click to expand...
Ya, I'm very glad I went with 1750b. I wish I'd even used 2100, but the 320's weren't available or even released yet when I purchased my components. 240-c2100b only runs 3.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
I don't care about efficiency but isn't the SE-250 4 cobs, 60 monos and 250W? Maybe 225W for the LEDs, leaves (much) less than 50W for each cob. Total crap!
Click to expand...
Uses a small 12"(?) UVB bulb as well. It's probably similar to a reptile bulb though with 25% TOPS UVB. Nothing like an Agromax PURE UVB bulb with 75% UVB & 25% UVA.
 
Hybridway

Hybridway

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
I don't care about efficiency but isn't the SE-250 4 cobs, 60 monos and 250W? Maybe 225W for the LEDs, leaves (much) less than 50W for each cob. Total crap!
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it's 40 monos, based on my 450 design. image.jpg They run a lil more then 250.
Pretty sure it's 47 w a cob which is 50% on 3070's. Leaving 2w a mono & the fans being extra. But I can ask & get those facts straight. I really like those 250's if I was to make a set-up w/ multiple light sources as we discussed here. But I'm just a dumb idiot, so what do I know right!
All their LEDs run at 50% power or less w/ the models I'm familiar with. Don't know if their considering cranking them up in the future.

Does anyone know if an led manufacturer has perfected the UV diodes yet? Last I checked only UV-A was available but they're known to blow out.
Until then, the reptile bulb seems to be the best option. My buds were mad frosty but that could be attributed to the full spectrum as well. Or both!
I'll be rocking the SP-4 light bars as multiple light sources overlapping but even they are 400 watts of mega power. So, I'll be getting the super high, even PPFD with cannabis plant saturation levels as well as the deep canopy penetration similiar to that of a 600+ HPS bulb.
All about spreading out the light. Just don't think we should have to compromise the depth penetration when doing so.
But again, I'm so stupid, anything I do must be wrong! As long as I'm yielding all this bud, I'll be the dummy round here. Getting smarter w/ every toke I take! bongsmilie
 
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Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
I don't care about efficiency but isn't the SE-250 4 cobs, 60 monos and 250W? Maybe 225W for the LEDs, leaves (much) less than 50W for each cob. Total crap!
Click to expand...
Wow I've never seen this before. That's crazy. The red and blues really pull 225ws? And it's total consumption is only 250?? What are you saying?
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Hybridway said:
Pretty sure it's 40 monos, based on my 450 design. View attachment 3717602 They run a lil more then 250 I think.
Pretty sure it's 47 w a cob which is 50% on 3070's. Leaving 2w a mono & the fans being extra. But I can ask & get those facts straight. I really like those 250's if I was to make a set-up w/ multiple light sources as we discussed here. But I'm just a dumb idiot, so what do I know right!
All their LEDs run at 50% power or less.

Does anyone know if an led manufacturer has perfected the UV diodes yet? Last I checked only UV-A was available but they're known to blow out.
Until then, the reptile bulb seems to be the best option. My buds were mad frosty but that could be attributed to the full spectrum as well. Or both!
I'll be rocking the SP-4 light bars as multiple light sources overlapping but even they are 400 watts of mega power. So, I'll be getting the super high, even PPFD with cannabis plant saturation levels as well as the deep canopy penetration similiar to that of a 600+ HPS bulb.
All about spreading out the light. Just don't think we should have to compromise the depth penetration when doing so.
But again, I'm so stupid, anything I do must be wrong! As long as I'm yielding all this bud, I'll be the dummy round here. Getting smarter w/ every toke I take! bongsmilie
Click to expand...
I swore there were 6 cobs on your amare fixtures.
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
Wow I've never seen this before. That's crazy. The red and blues really pull 225ws? And it's total consumption is only 250?? What are you saying?
Click to expand...
No, I was subtracting 10% for driver loss, leaving 225W for the LEDs, cobs included. I wasn't being serious anyway, the total crap bit was a joke.
 
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weed-whacker

weed-whacker

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
I can hear the Haters already but as crude as this vid is it shows pretty well the drop off many have been talking about in this thread

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isnt it strange how this debate goes on and on and on yet there is no mention of the fact that the HPS in these tests diminished in intensity at almost the same rate as the LEDs(suggesting that having multiple light sources closer to the canopy is going to get the best penetration)

AND the fact that the illumitex fixture showed very little loss of ppf while distance was increased (optics people)and blew the others away completely in that respect has not been mentioned at all?

growers house also have a test which demonstrates this- watch the vid
http://growershouse.com/blog/illumitex-neosol-ds-led-grow-light-review-test/

http://growershouse.com/images/PDFs/chart_neosolDS.pdf

not to mention all these fixtures(other than the illlumitex) are single source light points(ok the monons are multiple but still packed into a small area, not spread out as we do with our cob builds) and measuremenst were taken directly below the light source



so if anything the take away from that vid should be to use spread out light sources with optics for even ppfd and good penetration


the illumitex chips run at 5w each and convert to 1.7 umols per watt
cobs we run 50w each convert at around 2.5 umols per watt

DE is 1.7 also?
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
weed-whacker said:
AND the fact that the illumitex fixture showed very little loss of ppf while distance was increased (optics people)and blew the others away completely in that respect has not been mentioned at all?

growers house also have a test which demonstrates this- watch the vid
http://growershouse.com/blog/illumitex-neosol-ds-led-grow-light-review-test/

http://growershouse.com/images/PDFs/chart_neosolDS.pdf
Click to expand...
good catch here. but ....

Personal experience with the illumitex indicates that the light spread is indeed very well controlled. Great for sogs and scrogs that are well tended.
The neosol also works well for tall trees because raising the light doesn't lower the light intensity substantially. But its penetration through a thick dense canopy sucks because of the F3 spectrum. The F3 spectrum has very little green/yellow light. The top 6 inches of a dense canopy absorbs most of the light.

In a recent grow cycle I accidently created an extremely thick canopy. Timer issue, flipped later than supposed to and vegged too long. Almost everything underneath was undeveloped, reducing yields by at least 30%. Interestingly no penetration issues in the same grow with warm white cobs on the other side of the room.

spectrum can make a big difference in penetration, and clearly shows me why blurples suck.
 
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