New Vero Cob?

WoodyWoodWood

WoodyWoodWood

Member
Hi guys,

I've heard a few people mention a new vero cob coming out this month, I think growmau was talking about it. My question is does anyone know what it is called, or have any information about it? I've checked google, but got nowhere.

Cheers.
 
Mr celsius

Mr celsius

Active Member
JorgeGonzales said:
http://www.bridgelux.com/products/vero-series

New series data sheets are out, look very promising!
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Please excuse my ignorance for I am still learning about LEDs and attempting to understand them on a more sophisticated level. How do I properly read this data sheet?

Edit: Found this thread and answered a lot of my questions: https://www.rollitup.org/t/math-behind.868988/


If you have any resources you feel I could benefit from reading, please share them.

Thank you
 
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JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
Mr celsius said:
Please excuse my ignorance for I am still learning about LEDs and attempting to understand them on a more sophisticated level. How do I properly read this data sheet? When we talk about efficacy of a chip, is that soley lm/W? Like when we say that a CXB3590 has an efficacy of 56% at 1400ma, is that calculated by lm/W?

I ask about efficacy because of its relation to this equation:
Led watts * efficiency = par watts, par watts * QER = PPF, PPF/sq meters = ppfd of a specific space.


If you have any resources you feel I could benefit from reading, please share them.

Thank you
Click to expand...
That's not ignorance, it's actually a pretty deep question that I am barely qualified to answer on a good night's sleep and dead sober.

The nutshell answer is that lumens are graded on a curve centered around 555nm, so we need to de-weight them to get photons/s, PPFD, efficiency and all that jazz.

Great post/thread here explains it: https://www.rollitup.org/t/math-behind.868988/

Basically with digitized SPD data and luminousity function for each wavelength we can calculate LER aka Luminous Efficacy of Radiation. You can then do lumens/LER to get electrical efficiency %.

Electrical efficiency is slightly different from photon efficiency in umol/J, which is calculated by multiplying QER by efficiency. QER is explained in that link, but it's basically how many umols of photons are emitted at 100% efficiency per each joule of energy.

See? Good question, hard answer.

If you are interested in trying it yourself, I used alesh's spreadsheet in that thread to do all the Citizen stuff. You just digitize the SPD graphs, paste them into the spreadsheet and et voila. LER and QER.
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
i guess what remains to be seen is how well these bin out

on paper they are about a 10% bump in efficacy *but* we saw the last gen veros out performing what we anticipated per @SupraSPL 's PAR test. So assuming the last vero series supra tested was representative of the typical 'V2' vero and was accurate data, if the V7 chips perform according to the relative differences between datasheets the 10% efficacy bump will put them right in line with CXB3590 at a much more competitive price.

whats the availability on these puppies?
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
i guess what remains to be seen is how well these bin out

on paper they are about a 10% bump in efficacy *but* we saw the last gen veros out performing what we anticipated per @SupraSPL 's PAR test. So assuming the last vero series supra tested was representative of the typical 'V2' vero and was accurate data, if the V7 chips perform according to the relative differences between datasheets the 10% efficacy bump will put them right in line with CXB3590 at a much more competitive price.

whats the availability on these puppies?
Click to expand...
will you do some par testing for us ?
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
i guess what remains to be seen is how well these bin out

on paper they are about a 10% bump in efficacy *but* we saw the last gen veros out performing what we anticipated per @SupraSPL 's PAR test. So assuming the last vero series supra tested was representative of the typical 'V2' vero and was accurate data, if the V7 chips perform according to the relative differences between datasheets the 10% efficacy bump will put them right in line with CXB3590 at a much more competitive price.

whats the availability on these puppies?
Click to expand...
Starting with a comparison to Citzens, since these two will shortly be available...

So far, let's just say the 1212 and Vero 18 D is real interesting. On paper, the 1212 is ahead, and unless the Veros have a price cut...yeah.

Same story with the 1825 and 52V version of the Vero 29 at first glance. Citizen ahead on paper, definitely a price battle there. With non-Digikey prices on Citizens, they may come out ahead.

The Vero 29 D, which I assume will be the new ~$25 version looks just great. It seems to do so well at low currents that there might be some fun stuff to be had at lower currents than are shown in the data sheet for the other versions as well.

But right now it seems like we have Vero 18 > 1212 >1812> Vero 29 D > Vero 29 B>1825. That's a messy narrative.

The Vero 29 C is going to be...interesting. Price is the question. Not as good as the 1825 at 100W, but below that, various degrees of ahead.

Thermal resistance is excellent, but unfortunately the 85C data seems wrong in the new data sheets. Some currents show higher lumen output at 85C than 25C, so I'm reserving judgement there. Definitely something off.

And once LER and QER is calculated, and real world tests performed, it's anybody's game. Kind of what I said before, Bridgelux is going to have a hard time competing at certain price points, and it won't make much sense at some tiers to not go with 1212 or 1825s, if heat sinks and optics get sorted. But I'm excited to see low current tests on these Bridgeluxes.

Wow that was a lot of typing.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
Starting with a comparison to Citzens, since these two will shortly be available...

So far, let's just say the 1212 and Vero 18 D is real interesting. On paper, the 1212 is ahead, and unless the Veros have a price cut...yeah.

Same story with the 1825 and 52V version of the Vero 29 at first glance. Citizen ahead on paper, definitely a price battle there. With non-Digikey prices on Citizens, they may come out ahead.

The Vero 29 D, which I assume will be the new ~$25 version looks just great. It seems to do so well at low currents that there might be some fun stuff to be had at lower currents than are shown in the data sheet for the other versions as well.

But right now it seems like we have Vero 18 > 1212 >1812> Vero 29 D > Vero 29 B>1825. That's a messy narrative.

The Vero 29 C is going to be...interesting. Price is the question. Not as good as the 1825 at 100W, but below that, various degrees of ahead.

Thermal resistance is excellent, but unfortunately the 85C data seems wrong in the new data sheets. Some currents show higher lumen output at 85C than 25C, so I'm reserving judgement there. Definitely something off.

And once LER and QER is calculated, and real world tests performed, it's anybody's game. Kind of what I said before, Bridgelux is going to have a hard time competing at certain price points, and it won't make much sense at some tiers to not go with 1212 or 1825s, if heat sinks and optics get sorted. But I'm excited to see low current tests on these Bridgeluxes.

Wow that was a lot of typing.
Click to expand...
I think we all need to give the Getian cobs that @Trippyness posted about a while back, a second look at. For the price, it seems these are just a great alternative. @robincnn have you tested these out yet? Or even received them yet?

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60446126508/34-41V-170lm-w-30W-200W.html
 
optzulu

optzulu

Well-Known Member
The price will make it ore brake it for Vero the new vero 29 gen looks good. If its costs 35€ that just to much a good price would be 25€ for the vero 29 and 15€ for the vero 18
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
tomate said:
I did my best using this shitty chart from the Vero 18 Gen7 datasheet and got on the 3000K

LER = 333.57 lm/W
QER = 4.85 µmol/J
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And I get 328 and 4.87 for 3000K 1212.

Which means the CLU048-1212 is ahead on lumens and photons, on paper. And so far paper is pretty accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vero pulled ahead at very low currents, but who knows.

And yet I spent hours arguing that the 1212 beat the gen6 Vero 18 in another thread, and still never convinced the guy. Sigh.

Oh, and the Vero 18 isn't going to be $12 for the highest output version, I forget what the letter was.
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
Here we have the 1212 vs Vero 18 C. I matched lumens in on these charts, which isn't perfect but this is all a bit Mickey Mouse, ain't it?

Screen Shot 2016-06-26 at 1.26.05 PM.png

Vs

Screen Shot 2016-06-26 at 12.52.30 PM.png

Sooo. Yeah. I'd buy whatever was cheapest.

I'd prefer to compare at Tc=85C, which would be much more realistic, taking thermal resistance into account and everything, but I don't trust anything about the new Bridgelux data sheets in that column.
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
And I get 328 and 4.87 for 3000K 1212.

Which means the CLU048-1212 is ahead on lumens and photons, on paper. And so far paper is pretty accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vero pulled ahead at very low currents, but who knows.
Click to expand...
yeah i dunno every citi test ive done so far has been outstanding at low currents right up there with CXB. def performing over citis claimed specs (albeit were in our own world really at currents below 0.5 A, thats not what these cobs are designed for. robin sending me veros this week so we'll see whats up
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
yeah i dunno every citi test ive done so far has been outstanding at low currents right up there with CXB. def performing over citis claimed specs (albeit were in our own world really at currents below 0.5 A, thats not what these cobs are designed for. robin sending me veros this week so we'll see whats up
Click to expand...
Well, anybody who happened to order 1212s, 1812s, or 1825s can sleep a little easier at night.
 
tomate

tomate

Well-Known Member
According to the specs from the datasheet and using the webplotdigitizer, I came out with the following values for the BXRC-30E4000-C-7X (Vero18 ) @ Tc=50°C:

Code: 
9.84W (300mA) -> 2.51 µmol/J
19.54W (585mA) -> 2.36 µmol/J
26.52W (780mA) -> 2.28 µmol/J
40.95W (1170mA) -> 2.16 µmol/J
64.58W (1755mA) -> 1.98 µmol/J
For comparsion, some values of the CXB 3590 3500K CD:
Code: 
22.90W (700mA) -> 2.98 µmol/J
48.85W (1400mA) -> 2.62 µmol/J
 
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