Hayduke's Seldom Seen Garden

[Hayduke]

Was there a particular reason you decided to flower them so soon? Also, should have really been no nutes until the plants were asking for them (usually the leaves will start to become a lighter green as an indicator)

yeah, I kinda knew it too, especially with foxfarm soil. It was stupid. I did not know the indicator, thank you! Only water for a while. As for why I started flowering so soon, a couple of reasons, though I think in hindsight I either need to veg a little or get larger cuttings: I am using cfl's which cannot penetrate well enough to support large plants (SeeMoreBuds 17), and this is only for personal medicinal use and I am trying to get a perpetual harvest.

I have read alot about people who do this with cfl's. A guy who is on another board (DrBudGreenGenes) and I think the same guy has a good video on youtube where he has a smaller box, but uses about the same cfl's (off grid too) and starts his seeds or cuttings on 12/12 with no veg and gets 18-20". I may set up a small mother/clone room eventually and rotate in larger clones. The original idea was to only have one room, light schedule, and not wait for 3 months to have new bud.

I also was recommended "Marijuana Buds for less" by SeeMoreBuds/Garden Knowm (by my Dr.!). I was impatient waiting for shipping, or I would have done some things differently like the clamp lights, more than 6 42watters, and might have vegged a little. In SeeMoreBuds book from seed, went 12/12 on day 16. My clones looked about the same height as in the book but in the book the plants did not go into shock adjusting to new environment so probably kept growing while starting to sex. My first 6 girls already showed sex when I got them although the guy told me they were on a 24hr photo period. The new three showed no sex, until today day 11, 1 of the 3 has a couple of pistils.

- let alone a 3oz. dose to a gallon.

The bottle says for a heavy feeding 4 oz/gal. but again it was dumb. I have been divorced twice I never learn anything the easy way. 1st wife took my son. I learned my lesson about the family court, and have had my 13yr old from day one and by myself for 11 years.

You will for sure get some repercussions from the OD. I've never used anything but Foxfarm nutes and I've never given anything over the recommended directions (3-4 t)- usually always less than the directions. Marijuana usually for the most part is not a heavy feeding plant, some indicas can take some heavy feedings though..

Would you say that in the future 4T be too much? Also I ordered some Blue Mountain Organics micro nutes (soil tonic?), would it be safe to add this (conservatively) once it arrives in a week or two?


A flush can cause more problems than it would fix- though I think you might make a right choice here, def. nute and salt build up in the soil with the plants so young.. eck. but the flush will take everything good out of the soil.

I was concerned about that, but was told I should by my local shop. I used 2 gal/1gal pot.

How many times have you nuted the plants thus far total?

every other watering I used: 1st 2 times 2T/gal, then 4T/gal, then the 3oz/gal f-up

What color/ how murky is the water coming out the bottom when you water?

water was very light yellow+ some soil loss. pH of 1st gallon of run off was 6.5, besides some soil it was clear as opposed to cloudy.

Btw, I've seen more people hurt plants with fertilizer then help plants- easy does it...

I am sure I would have been better off never adding nutes, because the soil is so rich. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb!

By the way, everything I am only explaining what happened and why. I am not trying to make any excuses or give the impression that I know what I am doing, because I don't!. I have read alot and had 1 shitty attempt at 19 in 1989, anybody remember "operation green merchant"? UPS sucks! I absolutely appreciate the knowledge amassed by many people on RIU. I am extremely thankful to all those who can advise and help me become more successful.

 

[Hayduke]

Also to add to the damage done, last night I turned OFF the house air when I was cool outside and opened the windows. When I came home from work expecting to feel the cool house air, it was hot as hell!. I literally, dropped the groceries and ran to check the girls expecting to find them cooked. The box was 96, not good but it could have been much worse, glad I got the 256cfm blower. Luckily after originally deciding too wait 20 hours to water, I went ahead and gave them tap water with 1T Molasses (no chlorine and pH 6.4. I opened the box but shut the bathroom door cuz it gets colder. Then 2 hours later I checked before leaving to get my daughter, and the cat was locked in the bathroom with the garden! .

Luckily no plants were harmed during this 3rd f-up (4th if I should not have flushed, 5th if I flowered too soon, oh yeah CFL'S!!!!!). Good Kitty!!!!!

The OGK girls are 22 days today and the flowers are dramatically larger from the end week 2 post in spite of me I will post pics Wed night.

 

[Hayduke]

Thought I stop in I'm pritty sure you won't be waiting with a shotgun behind the door
Growing pains, huh! I feel you mate. Can't help you, I'm in hydro, and even then I'm lucky to keep mine alive,lol.
I think you are in good hands with Hotnsexymilf.
I'm 215 as well, were you in SD?

Unity

Growing pains for sure! Thanks for stopping by! Don't get me wrong I am not for violence, and I won't be waiting behind the door with a shotgun, nevertheless I would definitely recommend calling first, and not fucking with my family cuz I will be behind the door with the SKS well, not really but it is not far from reach and loaded. (Ca DOJ legal, as enough parts have been replaced to be considered American Made)

But again I really am not as crazy as that sounds, I think

Yeah I live in SD County

 

[unity]

Growing pains for sure! Thanks for stopping by! Don't get me wrong I am not for violence, and I won't be waiting behind the door with a shotgun, nevertheless I would definitely recommend calling first, and not fucking with my family cuz I will be behind the door with the SKS well, not really but it is not far from reach and loaded. (Ca DOJ legal, as enough parts have been replaced to be considered American Made)

But again I really am not as crazy as that sounds, I think

Yeah I live in SD County

I know what you mean man, it's a big conversation, but there is room for all of us at the table
I'm in HB, the situation is a little easier up here I think.

Unity

 

[camaro630hp]

DAM MAN I AM GLAD 2 C EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT

U LIVE U LEARN LOL
I KEEP MY AC ON 24/7 AFTER SOMTHING LIKE THAT HAPPEND 2 ME /ITS JUST WAY 2 MUCH WORK,TIME,MONEY 2 LOOSE IN 1 DAY
KEEP ON KEEPIN ON

Also to add to the damage done, last night I turned OFF the house air when I was cool outside and opened the windows. When I came home from work expecting to feel the cool house air, it was hot as hell!. I literally, dropped the groceries and ran to check the girls expecting to find them cooked. The box was 96, not good but it could have been much worse, glad I got the 256cfm blower. Luckily after originally deciding too wait 20 hours to water, I went ahead and gave them tap water with 1T Molasses (no chlorine and pH 6.4. I opened the box but shut the bathroom door cuz it gets colder. Then 2 hours later I checked before leaving to get my daughter, and the cat was locked in the bathroom with the garden! .

Luckily no plants were harmed during this 3rd f-up (4th if I should not have flushed, 5th if I flowered too soon, oh yeah CFL'S!!!!!). Good Kitty!!!!!

The OGK girls are 22 days today and the flowers are dramatically larger from the end week 2 post in spite of me I will post pics Wed night.

 

[unity]

Yep, my AC is on an auto setting, always! Have you considered one that just handles your grow, like a window unit or portable?

 

[Hayduke]

Yep, my AC is on an auto setting, always! Have you considered one that just handles your grow, like a window unit or portable?

Yeah the original closet was a homemade temp controlled fermentation room, which conveniently was insulated with reflective rigid insulation and had a window ac installed in the upper cabinet, facing down (not the best for the ac unit) Fermentation does produce heat but not as much as 10-42 watt cfl's. Also this was located right by the front door so odor and the noise of the ac and the heat from the ac making house uncomfortable. installed face down the compressor was very loud and the water which condensed in cooling coils would freeze if set low enough for 77-81 degrees.
So I built the box. Still considering cutting hole in box and mounting AC. Frys has a portable for 299 but not spending that much right now. I have the house ac on a program, but instead of overriding the temp, turned it off. won't happen again, soon it will be cooler also! new pics tonight, so check back!

 

[Hayduke]

DAM MAN I AM GLAD 2 C EVERYTHING IS ALRIGHT

U LIVE U LEARN LOL
I KEEP MY AC ON 24/7 AFTER SOMTHING LIKE THAT HAPPEND 2 ME /ITS JUST WAY 2 MUCH WORK,TIME,MONEY 2 LOOSE IN 1 DAY
KEEP ON KEEPIN ON

Thanks camaro dude. I'll try not to F-up much more.

 

[camaro630hp]

my breaker box to my a/c unit went out today
dam i shouldnt of said anything lol
every thing is good tho it hit 101.9 f

Thanks camaro dude. I'll try not to F-up much more.

 

[Hayduke]

my breaker box to my a/c unit went out today
dam i shouldnt of said anything lol
every thing is good tho it hit 101.9 f

Damn dude, that sucks. Glad there was no disaster! kinda funny all things considered

 

[camaro630hp]

THATS VERY TURE ,ITS ALL GOOD THO UR PLANTS R GOOD SO R MINE AND THATS GOOD 4ME

. Glad there was no disaster! kinda funny all things considered

 

[HotNSexyMILF]

I own Seemorebuds' cfl book- bought it when GK first released it.. lol..last nov... https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/36622-seemorebuds-marijuana-buds-less-grow.html
My first grow was cfl which resulted in a 3 oz. 12 gram cured yield from one plant- a few bumps along the way (mostly with falling lights and burnt leaves/buds)
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/30777-my-very-first-grow-closet.html
That baby was vegged 2.5 months before put into flowering under cfls- the biggest thing with cfls is placement, it's critical.

Cfl buds are always a lot fluffier and less dense than hps buds- hence more bud spots are usually better for the overall yield. Usually for any plant flowering isn't suggested until the plant is at least 18 inches tall. It's key to note that the mango strain used by GK in his book is a VERY heavy yielding strain, his results aren't very typical. Starting seeds at 12/12 prior to them reaching mature age does not make the plant sex quicker or flower faster- the only thing it does is cut down the energy the plant gets,stunting growth. With clones though, since the mother plant has already reached maturity you can start 12/12 actual flowering right off the bat (there is no sexing stage for clones)though the plant will be much smaller with a much smaller yeild as it was rushed. Also 12/12 does NOT induce the plant to show it's sex, the plant's maturity does, all my plants from seed always show sex while under 24/0 lights because I veg them until they reach maturity before inducing flowering, no rushed plants here. A thought to remember- in nature these plants veg for nearly 5 months before flowering, almost an 8 months life span- forcing the plant to go through it's whole life cycle in 3 months is stressful enough. Just some info to remember the next time around..

Do not always follow the directions on the nutes you buy- those directions are not for marijuana growers, lol, they are for hobby gardeners and produce. Again, marijuana needs very little nutrients compared to all the other plants typical gardeners are growing- a typical nute dosage for typical plants is usually an overdose for marijuana. You are growing a WEED, remember that- they usually thrive better with less intervention.

You also should have paid less attention to the amount of water you put into the container during the flush and more attention to the color of the water coming from the container during the flush- the point of the flush is to put water through until it comes out clear. That's the only way you can be sure you got all the toxic buildup out of the soil... a flush is a touchy move, though a little late to be saying that- as now your plant will continue to show signs from the OD (some OD signs take almost 2 weeks to show up in the leaves), and will make it difficult to sort out OD signs from possible under nutrition signs caused by the flush itself..

So yeah.. any questions let me know.. right now you're pretty much at a wait and see point.

Also with that heat problem you just had- did you check if the plant actually needed to be watered before you watered?? I.E. stuck you finger 2 inches into the soil to see if the soil was moist? If it's moist 2 inches below the surface DON'T WATER.

 

[Hayduke]

End week 3 (pics are actually 23 days flower)

Pretty much all leaves are now damaged. Rust colored spots appearing without burnt edges, also on bud leaves. Probably lock out of something now.
Really don't know what if anything I should do. I have some micronutes on the way, should I use them? Should I remove the damaged leaves? If so that would mean all of the few remaining fan leaves would be gone, not sure if that is good or not.

Anyhow pics are in same order as end week 2 (page 1 post 7)

Day 1 OGK=page 1 post 1
end week 1 post 2
day 1 headband post 6
end week 2 OGK page 1 post 7

The really shitty girl was named Amber, after an ex-wife. This sure did not help things

Last 4 pics are side branch of largest, diff view of 1st girl, garden overview, close-up of largest girls top

 

[camaro630hp]

Very nice post i learnd a few things
rep+4u

i own seemorebuds' cfl book- bought it when gk first released it.. Lol..last nov... https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/36622-seemorebuds-marijuana-buds-less-grow.html
my first grow was cfl which resulted in a 3 oz. 12 gram cured yield from one plant- a few bumps along the way (mostly with falling lights and burnt leaves/buds)
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/30777-my-very-first-grow-closet.html
that baby was vegged 2.5 months before put into flowering under cfls- the biggest thing with cfls is placement, it's critical.

Cfl buds are always a lot fluffier and less dense than hps buds- hence more bud spots are usually better for the overall yield. Usually for any plant flowering isn't suggested until the plant is at least 18 inches tall. It's key to note that the mango strain used by gk in his book is a very heavy yielding strain, his results aren't very typical. Starting seeds at 12/12 prior to them reaching mature age does not make the plant sex quicker or flower faster- the only thing it does is cut down the energy the plant gets,stunting growth. With clones though, since the mother plant has already reached maturity you can start 12/12 actual flowering right off the bat (there is no sexing stage for clones)though the plant will be much smaller with a much smaller yeild as it was rushed. Also 12/12 does not induce the plant to show it's sex, the plant's maturity does, all my plants from seed always show sex while under 24/0 lights because i veg them until they reach maturity before inducing flowering, no rushed plants here. A thought to remember- in nature these plants veg for nearly 5 months before flowering, almost an 8 months life span- forcing the plant to go through it's whole life cycle in 3 months is stressful enough. Just some info to remember the next time around..

Do not always follow the directions on the nutes you buy- those directions are not for marijuana growers, lol, they are for hobby gardeners and produce. Again, marijuana needs very little nutrients compared to all the other plants typical gardeners are growing- a typical nute dosage for typical plants is usually an overdose for marijuana. You are growing a weed, remember that- they usually thrive better with less intervention.

You also should have paid less attention to the amount of water you put into the container during the flush and more attention to the color of the water coming from the container during the flush- the point of the flush is to put water through until it comes out clear. That's the only way you can be sure you got all the toxic buildup out of the soil... A flush is a touchy move, though a little late to be saying that- as now your plant will continue to show signs from the od (some od signs take almost 2 weeks to show up in the leaves), and will make it difficult to sort out od signs from possible under nutrition signs caused by the flush itself..

So yeah.. Any questions let me know.. Right now you're pretty much at a wait and see point.

Also with that heat problem you just had- did you check if the plant actually needed to be watered before you watered?? I.e. Stuck you finger 2 inches into the soil to see if the soil was moist? If it's moist 2 inches below the surface don't water.

 

[Hayduke]

your plant will continue to show signs from the OD (some OD signs take almost 2 weeks to show up in the leaves), and will make it difficult to sort out OD signs from possible under nutrition signs caused by the flush itself..

So yeah.. any questions let me know.. right now you're pretty much at a wait and see point.

Also with that heat problem you just had- did you check if the plant actually needed to be watered before you watered?? I.E. stuck you finger 2 inches into the soil to see if the soil was moist? If it's moist 2 inches below the surface DON'T WATER.

Thanks for all the good advice! You can see the continuing damage in previous pics

I use my finger, lift pots for weight, and the pots are clear (I know won't happen again) so I can actually see the moisture level drop as small water drops condensing lower as they dry up. the heat problem, was they could have waited another 5 hours of light till I got home, but with the higher evap and transpiration rate the larger (relatively speaking) would have been hurting. they have never been very wet, and the soil is very loose and drains quickly. usual waterings are 12-14 oz out of which about 2 oz runs off. usually every 4th day, the heat issue day would have been day 4, Iwatered the last 30 min of day 3.

As far as the wait and see, I ordered an organic soil tonic, should I not use this when it arrives? here is what they say:

This tonic contains the following : Artesian Spring Water, Worm Castings, Mycorrhizal Fungi, Coral Calcium, Unsulphured (Blackstrap) Molasses, and Humic Acid derived from Oak Leaf & Peat Compost. ​

Now, most people "do not want to tell", you their ingredients. Blue Mountain Organics wants you to know them and why they are used :​

The Artesian Spring Water (provides an all natural, chlorine free base), Worm Castings (add soluable nitrogen & trace minerals), Mycorrhizal Fungi make the mix soluble & inoculate your plants roots, Unsulphured Molasses (feeds - these beneficial microorganisms, provides trace minerals, plus soluble nitrogen, phosphorus & potassium), Coral Calcium (adds 72 trace minerals - that's all of them), Humic Acid derived from (Hot Composted) Oak Leaves & Peat - adds natural chelates (ensuring smooth delivery of the trace minerals). All these good things are mixed, then oxygenated for (3) days under optimal conditions; in a special organic tea brewer. Which increases the feeding action of the beneficial microorganisms - which break down all these good things, into a highly soluble liquid. Easily absorbed by plants. Note: Mycorrhizal Fungi enhance your plants ability to absorb more nutrients, minerals & water - resulting in better vigor, growth & draught resistance. Just Google or Yahoo Search Mycorrhizal Fungi - You'll find page after page of information praising them.​

The effects on your plants will Amaze You !!! . Just like you, a plant fed a well balanced diet, which includes vitamins & trace minerals - Results in Increased Health & Vigor. It is like a protein shake for your plants.


​

Also should I trim the damaged leaves or let them fall off?

Thanks for any help!

 

[HotNSexyMILF]

From what it says, it's a liquid- so I'd hold off on adding it for a while. You're still probably going to continue getting repercussions from the OD.. lol, hands off the plants and let them recoup. If it was a soil conditioner that wasn't in liquid form,but instead a solid granule that you added to the top of the soil, that would have been ok to add now as those organic nutrients release slowly over time- but that liquid stuff will do the same thing as any liquid nutrient. That seems like it will be a good choice for after the plants have had some time to rebound as it will give the plants basically most of the things you flushed out of the Foxfarm soil to begin with. But again, just wait and see.. paws off those lovelies.

As far as the leaves- NEVER remove any leaf that is not more than 50% damaged. When you remove leaves you are cutting off the amount of energy the plant can produce- stunting the plant. Even when leaves are 50% damaged assess the overall plant- if the plant doesn't have that many leaves to begin with, just cut off the dead area of the leaf. If they fall off naturally, they fall off- but from your pictures, I wouldn't touch any of the leaves- they don't have many in the first place.

 

[Hayduke]

As far as the leaves- NEVER remove any leaf that is not more than 50% damaged. When you remove leaves you are cutting off the amount of energy the plant can produce- stunting the plant. Even when leaves are 50% damaged assess the overall plant- if the plant doesn't have that many leaves to begin with, just cut off the dead area of the leaf. If they fall off naturally, they fall off- but from your pictures, I wouldn't touch any of the leaves- they don't have many in the first place.

Thanks for the advice on leaf removal!

 

[camaro630hp]

hell ya man
i glad 2 c u got some help in here great pics

 

[Hayduke]

Well now I know what under-watering looks like. I have also learned that all plants do not necessarily get watered on the same day. My largest was drier and a lighter than the others last night and I second guessed myself because of all the noob overwatering, let the plants dry out stuff I hear. My soil drains so fast, I am not sure I could overwater unless I let them sit in run off, and I don't. The good thing is it was only one plant that was damaged. the bad thing was it was my largest She lost a few more leaves and has few left. She did seem to perk back up fairly quickly, I hope all that shit I read about in the late 80's early 90's about water stress being a good thing is true, if so it was probably for veg, I don't remember.

I should change the name of this thread to how to kill your plants effectively.

F@%CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well here she is

 

[Hayduke]

hell ya man
i glad 2 c u got some help in here great pics

NICE! thanks for adding some eye candy to my thread as my girls are not looking so hot!