Mature Plant 'random' death

[akboarder]

Hey everyone, loosing my post virginity here. Long time reader and watcher. I've got a few mothers i'm watching that have been in good health a few months, but now they seem to not be doing so well.

There is random death forming in the middle of branches and seems to spread. I have branches where the middle is all dead, though the tip looks alive and relatively unfazed. This is not always the case, sometimes it's whole branch.

Details on grow:
Coco media, 2 gallon pot, Advanced Nutrients pH perfect G-M-B 750ppm, Botanicare Calmag Plus 250ppm, Root pouches (smart pots), 400W MH (solis tek ballast is down and their replacement was crash prone, replacing.... again... to power 1000W DE king wing), No Pest Strip by Hotshot hung up last week. Gone through lockout possibility, flushed, pH and runoff was good. Don't know the strain of pictured, Durango OG, Jack the ripper, and train wreck mothers effected.

The mothers I got from a friend were looking great for a while, then they all seem to be doing this in varying levels. I know there's lots of death, it's been hard to keep up with i've been so busy. I have 5+ years experience and this is the first i've had issues with sick plants like this. It's also not spreading to my mothers or my vegging plants which are with the train wreck moms in another room.

I thought bugs but can't see any or signs of mites like bitten leaves, they kind of just droop like damping off and die. The death is not centralized, it's rather random. I did have some issues with Thrips, but they are dying away and the damage here is hard more severe than any other plants in the grow- it's also non-consistent with what thrips do damage-wise, sheen glossy leave death spots and tiny black spots (poop).

I did see one mite on a plant- a big one that was super fast, so much so I couldn't get much from it. Much bigger than spider mite. That was once 2 days ago but as I said, no pest strip is up. Haven't seen any aside from that one on any plants.

Really it looks like the plant is being poisoned from key points. I thought of Russet Mites but found it doubtful, not sure if they get up to arctic. Thought i'd ask you guys for any input. Fungus maybe? I've never seen anything like this and hope you guys can shed some light on something I haven't thought of or more things to maybe troubleshoot. Also any etiquette or info I missed, please feel free to mention- read this stuff a lot but a new poster. Thanks all.

 

[Bugeye]

Those dead leaves look so crispy. Did this happen pretty quickly? If so, toxic salt build up is a possibility.

 

[loftygoals]

Fusarium wilt or verticillium wilt.

 

[farmerfischer]

Damb thoughts plant are jacked up. Sorry I'm no help on this. Never see that before . check for commen plant pests. Along time ago I had a real nice plant outdoors, then one day I check it and the middle of the badass top was dead. It was a weevil of some kind and bord into the main stem killing almost half of the plant.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

It's fusarium I'd put good money on it. Try to take a couple clones off healthy parts if you can you can save the strain. Discard the sick females would be good.

Sanitize any water cans or reservoirs. Are they on a drip tray? Run to waste or recirc? Go drain to waste if you can. Keep it from spreading. Clean the dead leaves from the floor, they can have spores. Time for a good cleaning!

Also may want to go with beneficials, or better yet hypocloric acid. CleanRez has that in it, at most grow stores. You either fight it with better germs or try to make it sanitary in your root zones.

Also do I see an uncovered breaker panel in the back? Cover that puppy up, the panel holds the breakers tight, helps prevent fire.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

Damb thoughts plant are jacked up. Sorry I'm no help on this. Never see that before . check for commen plant pests. Along time ago I had a real nice plant outdoors, then one day I check it and the middle of the badass top was dead. It was a weevil of some kind and bord into the main stem killing almost half of the plant.

Sounds like caterpillars too. Hate those bastards. They climb up through the bud crapping whole time. What they don't kill turns moldy, like someone cut you good then shit in the hole.

 

[akboarder]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I doubt salt buildup as they are commonly flushed to 200 ppm higher than plain water (140ppm). It does happen pretty quickly though, leaves yellow, turn crispy. They haven't been getting all the attention they need though so some death build up. Ya tips wilt and then die too, the younger ones.

I had looked at fusarium wilt but wanted some input and didn't want it to be that as from what I understand, it's a losing fight. @loftygoals thanks for the input.

@8thGenFarmer Always drain to waste. They're on a waste tray- racks sat on 5 gallon buckets, connected to each other and all leading to a common waste line. It was a retired 16 site RDWC system I built, only downside is a little water remains in the bottom of each bucket. Maybe a potential source of bacteria//microbes. Occasionally i'll hit with bennies but not religiously: Great White, Aqua Shield, some Azos by xtreme gardening (don't have the mykos). I've got some Physan 20 and 32% H2O2 i'll wreak havoc with for cleaning stuff, not on the plants though. Breaker box is closed again
Actually, Physan 20 is fungicide antimicrobial- foliar to fight Fusarium wilt? Anybody know how to fight it or is it systemic and more like a virus and impossible to kick out? I'll read more into it. I'll be taking some clones too to save the strains.

 

[8thGenFarmer]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I doubt salt buildup as they are commonly flushed to 200 ppm higher than plain water (140ppm). It does happen pretty quickly though, leaves yellow, turn crispy. They haven't been getting all the attention they need though so some death build up. Ya tips wilt and then die too, the younger ones.

I had looked at fusarium wilt but wanted some input and didn't want it to be that as from what I understand, it's a losing fight. @loftygoals thanks for the input.

@8thGenFarmer Always drain to waste. They're on a waste tray- racks sat on 5 gallon buckets, connected to each other and all leading to a common waste line. It was a retired 16 site RDWC system I built, only downside is a little water remains in the bottom of each bucket. Maybe a potential source of bacteria//microbes. Occasionally i'll hit with bennies but not religiously: Great White, Aqua Shield, some Azos by xtreme gardening (don't have the mykos). I've got some Physan 20 and 32% H2O2 i'll wreak havoc with for cleaning stuff, not on the plants though. Breaker box is closed again
Actually, Physan 20 is fungicide antimicrobial- foliar to fight Fusarium wilt? Anybody know how to fight it or is it systemic and more like a virus and impossible to kick out? I'll read more into it. I'll be taking some clones too to save the strains.

Physan is pretty much for sanitizing equipment and stuff. I know some people use it off label to sanitize plant, but i don't think you want to go that route.

Them problem with fusarium is it technically lives inside the stem of the plant, it gets in at the soil line and lives on the moisture and sugar inside the plant, so not sure the Physan would help.

Once you start seeing a lot of symptoms it's hard. The spores can last for years in the soil. If you are using sugar stop that for now for sure. You could use a systemic fungicide, but most of the ones that work on fusarium are Ag stuff and kinda gross. Methal bromide and the like.

Mild chlorination of the water is what I would suggest. Hypocloric acid much gentler on plants them sodium hypochlorite (bleach). Both contain the oxidizing power of chlorine tho.

I felt like Billy maze

 

[loftygoals]

I don't think it's the end of the world. I've seen quite a few reports of single plants dieing like this but never seen more than a couple of plants taken out.

There are a lot more devastating pathogens you could be dealing with.

 

[akboarder]

I read up on it a little bit and it seemed like there wasn't much you could do for plants that had it, I don't really know what to do as it just seems to be getting worse and continuing. A dead mother plant is not the end of the world, I had just been given them by a mentor and I didn't want them to die, even though they said it was fine if they did. I'll get them cleaned up, throw in some bennies, and hope for the best- along with bleach spray the heck out of everything, probably with some physan 20 too. I'll do a little flush of the roots with low strength bleach solution before the bennies and see where it goes. From what i've read it's hard if not impossible to fight, your plant is toast. To the clone mobile we go!

 

[8thGenFarmer]

I read up on it a little bit and it seemed like there wasn't much you could do for plants that had it, I don't really know what to do as it just seems to be getting worse and continuing. A dead mother plant is not the end of the world, I had just been given them by a mentor and I didn't want them to die, even though they said it was fine if they did. I'll get them cleaned up, throw in some bennies, and hope for the best- along with bleach spray the heck out of everything, probably with some physan 20 too. I'll do a little flush of the roots with low strength bleach solution before the bennies and see where it goes. From what i've read it's hard if not impossible to fight, your plant is toast. To the clone mobile we go!

3/4 ml per gallon in clear water is enough free chlorine to kill germs and keep the solution what's called bacteriostatic. Won't necessarily kill off all the infection but will make it nigh impossible for germs to grow in the medium. That's slightly more bleach than in tap water, but less than a swimming pool. It does contain sodium, but not enough to kill the plants.
I do prefer the hypochloric acid but that stuff isn't at every grocery store in the world like the household bleach.

 

[akboarder]

Ok, i'll give that dose a try. I ran into some cyanobacteria (my diagnosis anyway) last year when I was in RDWC and after a long battle with it and little success, I switched to coco. Used sodium hypochlorite quite a bit trying to fight it so I am quite comfortable using it and used about that same ratio. That and H2O2, which might get some use too as the plants tend to accept it well too. For anybody who might read that ^^ in futures, biological warfare was the only thing that gave results lasting more than a day, Heisenberg tea is a good place to start (or a variation of it for) Cyanobacteria.

 

[AnimalMother1974]

How long did it take to go from full green healthy, to almost completely dead?

 

[akboarder]

Interesting things is, there are dead parts to it, but lots of the plant is perfectly healthy. I can post a pic of the plant as a whole. Interestingly, the plant is cut in half basically from me taking off death. She was a good 3 feet plus wide and 4 feet tall. She is now very unsymmetrical cut in half. I digress, it took a while since this started. Like 3 months. It's been a slow process, giving me plenty of time to trouble shoot. PH, nutrient lockout, overfeed trapped in coco, mites/bugs, inadequate light (which may be playing a part, 400w is not enough for 5 big mother plants), or plant death related to the plant being up against the wall for too long. It is not super aggressive and nothing has really been a game changer as far as fixing it. I thought it was some random death at first and knowing not much about these mothers prehistory I figured wait and see. So after doing all I could and discussing with colleagues, which led me back to the same things I already troubleshot, I ended up here.