abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Bernie Sanders is.
EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Do you use your public library? Almost everything you talk about as being "great" is right there.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
This is where you and I can agree.
This also demonstrates the benefit of staying engaged and continuing to press for your issues.
Whether you throw your vote away, vote Green Party or whatever, there will be no changes of this kind if the left disengages from the Democratic party.
Hillary is a right wing Democrat but she also follows the vote. Voting a Democratic Congress to replace the tea baggers now gumming up the works while continuing to support Sanders is one way to block Hillary from continuing the rightward march of this country.
There is a lot of good in the Green Party's positions. If you can't stick with the Democrats then consider the Green Party. If they can get past the marginal numbers they currently draw, again, they will be in the position gain seats in Congress. I'd like that as much as anything else.
Sanders did not sell out. He's working within the system and did more than anybody else to keep important issues in the national debate.
Flaming Pie
Well-Known Member
Really? Then why are we talking about buying college for people if all they need for education is a library?
(Sarcasm)
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Pie, college is also available to you. You aren't working are you? You have time for a few classes. You have skills in tending plants; botany and biology are great subjects for learning. Junior college isn't that expensive and there are grants out there if you look for them. I think it's so funny that the Republican Party has this ideal of self motivation and picking yourself up by your bootstraps yet here you are wailing about lack of opportunity.
If you are just interested in gaining some skills or basic knowlege, then the library is free and the books are there for you. Librarians also love to help people look up specific information.
Cry me a fucking river. Learning is hard and requires time and work. That's what's stopping you, not the lack of opportunity.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What about the gerrymandering issue for the house?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Communism? Is that an answer?
Communism is a totalitarian authoritarian government. It doesn't really align with human nature. It was always just an artificial construct and human nature corrupted the pure ideal embodied in the philosophy.
The reason I would not support revolution is not because I'm afraid of the strife and loss of life that usually occurs during one. I don't support a revolution because I don't think any economist or philosopher has come up with a balanced system that works with human nature.
Communism, capitalism, fascism, whatever. They are all experiments that have to be tried and learned from. Eventually, I think we will come up with something to replace capitalism but communism is not it.
I'm not wedded to any particular philosophy right now. I prefer the kind of social democratic governance found in scandinavia, which is really just a patchwork of whatever seems to work well at the time. Because we don't have the answer, we need to experiment with new ideas. But not implement them wholesale just in case the work. Like communism was implemented. Yuck.
bluntmassa1
Well-Known Member
We need to stand on our own two feet not be handed shit.
If you have Netflix find the documentary about poverty I forget the name but it shows just how bad giving people free stuff is and shows just why Haitians can't stand on their own two feet.
You give give give nobody will work work work they can farm in Haiti they can farm in Ethiopia but the farmers can not compete with the free rice nobody buys local when you get given shit for free.
These people are dependent on free shit.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
No, not really. Communism was never achieved. Anyway that's where I stopped reading because you seemed poised to recount everything bad you could remember about the Soviet Union while also assuming I was suggesting something like that.
What you should remember is that I'm not pushing that, I'm pushing the Green Party. Also, "totalitarian authoritarian" is redundant but the word that followed the two was just overkill..
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yes? what about it? The gerrymandering was possible because state governments were voted in that were Republican. That can change can't it? Not immediately but over time. The point is to stay engaged and keep up the pressure for what you advocate. But in a Democracy, nobody gets everything the want.
In any case, there are scenarios where Trump drags down the GOP so far that it makes Democratic control of the House possible.
What happened in 2000 and especially in 2004 was that the Democratic left did not participate at all. The people who won were definitely not what the left wanted in office. Not only that but it encouraged Democratic congress members to support right wing proposals. Because the vote was right wing biased. I'm just advocating that the left not stay away from voting or agitating their cause. To avoid a repeat of the Bush era.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Nope I didn't recount the Soviet Union, but that did happen, no denying it. I'm saying that Communism isn't any better than Rob Roy's Anarchocapitalism in that both are pure philosophies and not based upon human nature. People do what they do and corrupt those pure ideas. I don't think we (as in humanity) have come up with a well balanced form of governance, philosophy and economic ideas.
I do remember you are pushing the Green Party. It's a good alternative and I want the movement to grow. There are some Oregon Green Party initiatives underway that I intend to support come this fall.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Nope, you are wrong.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to discuss communism with you because you're suggesting that I am pushing communism while also suggesting that communism is (___) and so to engage in such a discussion is to agree with some assumption with which I do not agree. This is heightened by your suggestion that communism is equated with anarchocapitalism.
That's foolish.
However, you then proceed to suggest that your opinion in this regard is based on human nature. You have given no reason for me to believe that you have a grasp of human nature. In fact I doubt you grasp the nature of other species to such an extent that you could educate me. I say this, because you have just attempted to lure me into a foolish discussion.
No actually, I am correct, by definition. Totalitarianism is already authoritarian.
Flaming Pie
Well-Known Member
I am already taking courses. I need 2 more to graduate. Then i will either start a business degree or something else that is useful.
Flaming Pie
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to argue with you because I'd rather not. I pretty much think you are ok.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
aren't you planning to vote for a fascist, racist egomaniac who is on trial for fraud, racketeering, and raping a 14 year old child?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
maybe then you can get off the public dole.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Denmark has a pretty good system that does just that for its youth. I'm not familiar with Hillary's recent proposal but I'll look it up and find out what she's saying. I'm not for free college for old people like you. You have the time and resources to improve yourself if you want to.
edit:
Exactly what I said. You have time and resources that an 18 year old does not.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Not really, I'm kind of a jerk. I'm extremely generous and commit random acts of kindness but in general I'm not a very pleasant person. I'm antisocial, cynical and impatient.