The universe itself is God

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
according to science the earth is older than the sun.
the sun is younger than earth, the earth is older than the moon.

here's why,
the earth is older (water samples) than the sun (final stages of a t-star) & the moon (rock samples from astronauts).

earth was a water planet before it became a water & land planet (via plate tectonics).

regarding light (photons) & the earth (matter) existing prior to light:

the timeline from science & the bible is...

first,
according to science (nasa & cosmologists) was light first or matter?

matter was first.

what is matter?
matter is, hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, boron (at the very beginning of universe)

what is light?
light is a photon, photons are both particles (of matter) & waves

the sun is matter. which produces light. see the order?
matter first then light.
no matter no light.
the sun is mostly hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...the reactions of these elements (matter) produce light
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html

light begins after creation, darkness (dark energy & dark matter) then light (see link below from nasa)

energy first then matter, matter is made from energy, energy is the basis of matter.

the universe is/was dark energy then dark matter, they existed before light

light separates from darkness — by nasa
dark energy & dark matter, http://jwst.nasa.gov/firstlight.html
light separates from darkness, http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/080998/index.html

light separates from darkness — by the bible (written 5000 years prior to nasa)
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness." <--- see the order? matter was already created then light came later.
(esv genesis 1:1-4)

& possibly all electromagnetic spectrums of light, radio, radiation, microwave, infrared, ultraviolet, visible...


the sun & moon,
since we know light had already been created these 'other' visible lights arrive later in creation's timeline,
"And God made the two great lights — the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night — and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth."

regarding the sun, God made matter, one which was turned into a sphere made mostly of hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...a nuclear reaction took place which produced light to rule the day... ;) :P

& now a word on orbits,
notice the bible says, "And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"

the hebrew word 'set' is 'natan' — means 'to assign'

'and God assigned them (the sun & the moon) in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth'
the mass of matter & the force of gravity at work — orbits — presto! :) notice the orbit around the sun came later after the creation of planet earth. 'natan' ('assigned' or 'set' to an orbit), the earth was pulled into the sun's orbit.

the truth,
contrary to popular belief, the first divine creation was NOT the universe — it was wisdom — sooner or later the scientific community will realize this fact, non-material existence prior to material, non-material before nature:

the beginning of creation, wisdom was first.
non-material laws which existed before the creation that would govern the universe.
like laws physics, logic, mathematics...


regarding wisdom,
"When he established the heavens, I was there;
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman,
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing before him always,..."
proverbs 8
the laws of physics


scientists can further drill down into the biblical hebrew & greek texts of genesis, psalms, job, john, hebrews... for further details of creation, our world, for example, 'empty void' 'without shape & dark' 'surface of the deep' 'darkness was' 'water' 'breath of God' 'what is made is made from things not seen'... the bible is unique in this respect, no other book is like this.


soooooo class... God's love first to freely create us, his mind, then wisdom (the laws to control nature/creation), ok now the creation of dark energy & dark matter before light not the reverse.

moses to scientists, 'youre welcome' ;)

ooooorrr, you can believe everything came from nothing, unguided, undesigned, without knowledge, without laws, by chance. presto, magic! :P


peace :)
God is not tl;dr
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Assuming god actually exists, what is his motivation? Why does he get up & go to work every day? That good/evil thing is bullshit; the devil is a sock puppet...
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Nah mates, you've got it all wrong!

The universe and god become one while you're having a good wank- joining in that magical sticky moment.

The meaning of life, written in spooge.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
by definition God (if the biblical definition is used). God would have to be outside of creation, the things made, like the universe. God would have to be something more powerful than the universe & the laws of physics in order to create them, for example, cause & effect, the cause has to be greater than the effect.

scientists tell us time was created at the beginning of the universe. God is outside of time. the universe is stuck in time since it had a beginning & it has a ending event.

by definition, there is God then everything else, creation.

'In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth.'
genesis 1:1

'...before you had formed the earth & the world,
from eternity past to eternity future you are God.'
psalms 90:2

:)
That is one definition out of millions. Are you sure it's the correct one though?

Technically speaking people are still out on whether such a powerful entity even exists. Logic and reasoning lead us to believe it doesn't but if you're going to insist I would think you have to prove your object before you define it.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
Assuming god actually exists, what is his motivation? Why does he get up & go to work every day? That good/evil thing is bullshit; the devil is a sock puppet...
If a god existed in the form many seem to think he would take i.e. infinite, all knowing, all powerful...

Then we'd never be able to comprehend the motivations of such a thing beyond us. It's like ant contemplating a human it can't.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
argument from ignorance? please no need to insult. :)

what is more plausible regarding the beginning of this universe?
1. the universe just happened out of nothing? this would be magic not science nor logic.
2. the universe was created by a higher being more powerful & independent of the universe?

"what made God"

by definition God is a necessary being, by definition it is impossible that he fail to exist, this is the definition of God. unless im mistaken & youre talking about something else.
1. No one believes the universe was created by magic unless we count you and people who believe in gods. Multiple hypothesis' exist to explain the origin of the universe and any real scientist would most likely tell you, "Well I don't KNOW how the universe began but we're beginning to have some clues and ideas." because that is the stage we are in when it comes to explaining the origins of the universe from a scientific perspective, we don't know but we're working on it.

2. This is not more plausible considering the hundreds of other creation myths that are out there. Your bible only asserts one of many variations on how this world was created. How can you be sure it is true and reliable? It isn't like the Bible has any proof to it, just like any other holy text it is obviously a work of myth and fiction that inspire their respective religions but that is about it. No amount of interpretation is going to produce anything scientifically substantial from your holy text and that is just the truth of the matter.


My point would be: Just because we don't know something doesn't mean we have to fill the gap in knowledge with anything. Lots of people like to fill the gaps of knowledge in with religion but that isn't right. The mysteries of life are like a puzzle, we have some of the pieces and we're figuring out how they fit together. Once we figure out what pieces fit together we can take a step back and begin to look at the picture our incomplete puzzle forms in order to continue figuring out more of it. And religion and wild speculation is like trying to jam whatever piece you can into these gaps hoping it will fit if only to scratch that itch of not knowing by replacing it with what I personally considering to be a very comforting albeit extremely deceitful lie.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
1. No one believes the universe was created by magic unless we count you and people who believe in gods. Multiple hypothesis' exist to explain the origin of the universe and any real scientist would most likely tell you, "Well I don't KNOW how the universe began but we're beginning to have some clues and ideas." because that is the stage we are in when it comes to explaining the origins of the universe from a scientific perspective, we don't know but we're working on it.

2. This is not more plausible considering the hundreds of other creation myths that are out there. Your bible only asserts one of many variations on how this world was created. How can you be sure it is true and reliable? It isn't like the Bible has any proof to it, just like any other holy text it is obviously a work of myth and fiction that inspire their respective religions but that is about it. No amount of interpretation is going to produce anything scientifically substantial from your holy text and that is just the truth of the matter.


My point would be: Just because we don't know something doesn't mean we have to fill the gap in knowledge with anything. Lots of people like to fill the gaps of knowledge in with religion but that isn't right. The mysteries of life are like a puzzle, we have some of the pieces and we're figuring out how they fit together. Once we figure out what pieces fit together we can take a step back and begin to look at the picture our incomplete puzzle forms in order to continue figuring out more of it. And religion and wild speculation is like trying to jam whatever piece you can into these gaps hoping it will fit if only to scratch that itch of not knowing by replacing it with what I personally considering to be a very comforting albeit extremely deceitful lie.
And yet, I remain in awe of the universe as science has explored and explained it. It doesn't need to be magic to amaze me.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
And yet, I remain in awe of the universe as science has explored and explained it. It doesn't need to be magic to amaze me.
I'm still wrapping my mind around the small and big things. It blows my mind we've observed something as small as an atom and have proven the existence of stars that would envelope our whole solar system. The scale is pretty impressive.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
according to science the earth is older than the sun.
the sun is younger than earth, the earth is older than the moon.

here's why,
the earth is older (water samples) than the sun (final stages of a t-star) & the moon (rock samples from astronauts).

earth was a water planet before it became a water & land planet (via plate tectonics).

regarding light (photons) & the earth (matter) existing prior to light:

the timeline from science & the bible is...

first,
according to science (nasa & cosmologists) was light first or matter?

matter was first.

what is matter?
matter is, hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, boron (at the very beginning of universe)

what is light?
light is a photon, photons are both particles (of matter) & waves

the sun is matter. which produces light. see the order?
matter first then light.
no matter no light.
the sun is mostly hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...the reactions of these elements (matter) produce light
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html

light begins after creation, darkness (dark energy & dark matter) then light (see link below from nasa)

energy first then matter, matter is made from energy, energy is the basis of matter.

the universe is/was dark energy then dark matter, they existed before light

light separates from darkness — by nasa
dark energy & dark matter, http://jwst.nasa.gov/firstlight.html
light separates from darkness, http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/080998/index.html

light separates from darkness — by the bible (written 5000 years prior to nasa)
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness." <--- see the order? matter was already created then light came later.
(esv genesis 1:1-4)

& possibly all electromagnetic spectrums of light, radio, radiation, microwave, infrared, ultraviolet, visible...


the sun & moon,
since we know light had already been created these 'other' visible lights arrive later in creation's timeline,
"And God made the two great lights — the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night — and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth."

regarding the sun, God made matter, one which was turned into a sphere made mostly of hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...a nuclear reaction took place which produced light to rule the day... ;) :P

& now a word on orbits,
notice the bible says, "And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"

the hebrew word 'set' is 'natan' — means 'to assign'

'and God assigned them (the sun & the moon) in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth'
the mass of matter & the force of gravity at work — orbits — presto! :) notice the orbit around the sun came later after the creation of planet earth. 'natan' ('assigned' or 'set' to an orbit), the earth was pulled into the sun's orbit.

the truth,
contrary to popular belief, the first divine creation was NOT the universe — it was wisdom — sooner or later the scientific community will realize this fact, non-material existence prior to material, non-material before nature:

the beginning of creation, wisdom was first.
non-material laws which existed before the creation that would govern the universe.
like laws physics, logic, mathematics...


regarding wisdom,
"When he established the heavens, I was there;
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman,
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing before him always,..."
proverbs 8
the laws of physics


scientists can further drill down into the biblical hebrew & greek texts of genesis, psalms, job, john, hebrews... for further details of creation, our world, for example, 'empty void' 'without shape & dark' 'surface of the deep' 'darkness was' 'water' 'breath of God' 'what is made is made from things not seen'... the bible is unique in this respect, no other book is like this.


soooooo class... God's love first to freely create us, his mind, then wisdom (the laws to control nature/creation), ok now the creation of dark energy & dark matter before light not the reverse.

moses to scientists, 'youre welcome' ;)

ooooorrr, you can believe everything came from nothing, unguided, undesigned, without knowledge, without laws, by chance. presto, magic! :P


peace :)
Even before matter existed Time was present, Time is where one (for me) can find God in the/this present moment. Not a minute from now or ago but this moment. If I worry about tomorrow, regret yesterday my mind is not in the present where God resides. (He's not worried)

.....then I forget. Practice, practice practice.
 

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
There are small universes everywhere. I've got a big pile of organic soil sitting on a tarp in the driveway that is a universe. Rich diversity of life, and if you're a microbe, travelling from one end to the other is inconceivable. Until I break out the shovel...
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Even before matter existed Time was present, Time is where one (for me) can find God in the/this present moment. Not a minute from now or ago but this moment. If I worry about tomorrow, regret yesterday my mind is not in the present where God resides. (He's not worried)

.....then I forget. Practice, practice practice.
God's where the pain is, duh
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
If a god existed in the form many seem to think he would take i.e. infinite, all knowing, all powerful...

Then we'd never be able to comprehend the motivations of such a thing beyond us. It's like ant contemplating a human it can't.
It's self expression. If i have a personallity, that personality is part of me but not the entirety. But yea you're right
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Incorrect. I was not looking to refute anything, I posted my perspective which is entirely different.

Best of luck. Also, I'll do as I please, thanks.
"You / no one can compute the amount of available information (known and unknown), so, is it God of the Gaps-ish to say that it cannot be possible that a "God" exists?"

I never said that a God is not possible, but that no evidence supports one.

You can go on believing non evidenced things as reality all you want.
 

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