Chunky Stool
Well-Known Member
The burden of proof is on the affirmative position.
The universe itself is God
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Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Please get educated beyond apologetic websites...according to science the earth is older than the sun.
the sun is younger than earth, the earth is older than the moon.
here's why,
the earth is older (water samples) than the sun (final stages of a t-star) & the moon (rock samples from astronauts).
earth was a water planet before it became a water & land planet (via plate tectonics).
regarding light (photons) & the earth (matter) existing prior to light:
the timeline from science & the bible is...
first,
according to science (nasa & cosmologists) was light first or matter?
matter was first.
what is matter?
matter is, hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, boron (at the very beginning of universe)
what is light?
light is a photon, photons are both particles (of matter) & waves
the sun is matter. which produces light. see the order?
matter first then light.
no matter no light.
the sun is mostly hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...the reactions of these elements (matter) produce light
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/suncomp.html
light begins after creation, darkness (dark energy & dark matter) then light (see link below from nasa)
energy first then matter, matter is made from energy, energy is the basis of matter.
the universe is/was dark energy then dark matter, they existed before light
light separates from darkness — by nasa
dark energy & dark matter, http://jwst.nasa.gov/firstlight.html
light separates from darkness, http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/080998/index.html
light separates from darkness — by the bible (written 5000 years prior to nasa)
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness." <--- see the order? matter was already created then light came later.
(esv genesis 1:1-4)
& possibly all electromagnetic spectrums of light, radio, radiation, microwave, infrared, ultraviolet, visible...
the sun & moon,
since we know light had already been created these 'other' visible lights arrive later in creation's timeline,
"And God made the two great lights — the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night — and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth."
regarding the sun, God made matter, one which was turned into a sphere made mostly of hydrogen & helium with traces of oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, silicon...a nuclear reaction took place which produced light to rule the day...
& now a word on orbits,
notice the bible says, "And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"
the hebrew word 'set' is 'natan' — means 'to assign'
'and God assigned them (the sun & the moon) in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth'
the mass of matter & the force of gravity at work — orbits — presto!notice the orbit around the sun came later after the creation of planet earth. 'natan' ('assigned' or 'set' to an orbit), the earth was pulled into the sun's orbit.
the truth,
contrary to popular belief, the first divine creation was NOT the universe — it was wisdom — sooner or later the scientific community will realize this fact, non-material existence prior to material, non-material before nature:
the beginning of creation, wisdom was first.
non-material laws which existed before the creation that would govern the universe.
like laws physics, logic, mathematics...
regarding wisdom,
"When he established the heavens, I was there;
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 when he made firm the skies above,
when he established the fountains of the deep,
29 when he assigned to the sea its limit,
so that the waters might not transgress his command,
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 then I was beside him, like a master workman,
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing before him always,..."
proverbs 8
the laws of physics
scientists can further drill down into the biblical hebrew & greek texts of genesis, psalms, job, john, hebrews... for further details of creation, our world, for example, 'empty void' 'without shape & dark' 'surface of the deep' 'darkness was' 'water' 'breath of God' 'what is made is made from things not seen'... the bible is unique in this respect, no other book is like this.
soooooo class... God's love first to freely create us, his mind, then wisdom (the laws to control nature/creation), ok now the creation of dark energy & dark matter before light not the reverse.
moses to scientists, 'youre welcome'
ooooorrr, you can believe everything came from nothing, unguided, undesigned, without knowledge, without laws, by chance. presto, magic!
peace
"The sun, at 4.6 billion years old, predates all the other bodies in our solar system. But it turns out that much of the water we swim in and drink here on Earth is even older.
A new model of the chemistry of the early solar system finds that up to half the water now on Earth was inherited from an abundant supply of interstellar ice as our sun formed. That means our solar system’s moisture wasn’t the result of local conditions in the proto-planetary disk, but rather a regular feature of planetary formation — raising hopes that life could indeed exist elsewhere in the universe. "
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2014/09/25/earths-water-is-older-than-the-sun/#.V5F_ep8pAj0
The Bible says the Earth does not move.
Psalm 93:1 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"93 Jehovah hath reigned, Excellency He hath put on, Jehovah put on strength, He girded Himself, Also -- established is the world, unmoved."
Psalm 96:10 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"10 Say among nations, `Jehovah hath reigned, Also -- established is the world, unmoved, He judgeth the peoples in uprightness.' "
The Earth is set on pillars.
Psalm 104:5 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"5 He hath founded earth on its bases, It is not moved to the age and for ever."
The Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah 40:22 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"22 He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in."
Hazy_Nights.DC
Active Member
Suffer...
Hazy_Nights.DC
Active Member
AKA live free, non-deduct..
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Correct. Everything you now know was an unknown at some point in time. You get it now?
Edit: You went all "Dorothy Supreme" with the straw man image yet failed to address my question re: computing all known and unknown information. Why?
And to post an image of someone selling "God" door-to-door has nothing to do with me and our conversation. How do you compute that without getting an error?
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Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Yes. I just do not insert a magic man in the gaps of our understanding, nor do I say it's impossible like you implied (ergo Strawman).
Give evidence for your sky wizard instead of making presuppositions.
The same question can be applied to Unicorns, yet so far there's no evidence of such just like your imaginary friend.
I thought it was funny.And to post an image of someone selling "God" door-to-door has nothing to do with me and our conversation. How do you compute that without getting an error?
Attachments
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
The thing is, though, that I do not apply magic to the gaps (sexually, maybe lol), and you assume that I believe in a sky wizard. Your assumptions are gaping gaps echoed through the halls of this eternal argument but you attempt to call me out. That's like the pot calling the weed bad, same shit. I said that it was impossible to compute all known and unknown information, that's the truth, doesn't matter which side you are on.
All you have to do is answer the question "can you compute all known and unknown information". I also said that "no one can" which includes me. You point toward supporting evidence as the reason that you don't feel there is a "God", and I can't fault you for that anymore than you can fault my own subjective evidence (maybe ask how I perceive such a "being"?). Since there is no clear answer, both positions end up as nearly identical statements.
Let's be mature about this and do away with the names like unicorns, sky wizard, and etc., they do us no good. Happy to hash it out without the "subtle" jabs.
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, and Savior?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Sex created me, I don't know anything outside of that. Do you?
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Dead stars from long ago created me.
Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, and Savior?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Sorry, too anthropomorphic for me, care to pose that question in a another way?
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Do you believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to atone for your sins? Resurrected on the third day, and bodily rose up to the Heavens?
Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord, and Savior?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Are you asking the question in the esoteric sense? Sorry, have to ask since this is nothing but a loaded question.
Kind of the same as you saying dopamine all the time. Should I assume that since science told you "dopamine" that you stop your search there because of the infallibility of science? Seems lazy. Will the answer still be dopamine in a hundred years? If not, are you still correct to say so right now?
Edit: Saviour, meaning, Authentic Self free of the attachments of ego? Is that what you mean?
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Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Three times is good enough, but it's a pertinent question.
Science is a method. Science shows that Dopamine is behind addictions both for drug use, and of thought. It's a motivator through evolution that activates the part of the brain that gets our attention wether we are conscious of it, or not. When science shows evidence otherwise then I will go with said evidence.
When there's evidence for a God, then I will believe.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
And that's totally cool. I don't want you to believe, that shit's up to you man. My belief is in the esoteric, and my personal experiences cannot be measured save by me.
I trust in science but also look inward for other answers.
Dalek Supreme
Well-Known Member
Good.
Did you know:
That Schizophrenics have high levels of Dopamine?
Dopamine can cause hallucinations, and feelings of oneness with the universe?
Dopamine strengthens neurological pathways, and this is why trying to talk someone out of an addiction is a difficult task.
Drugs, and thought release Dopamine, and it's related to creativity. In other words it can be a force of progress, or people making up meaning where there is none (regress).
