Anyone know if acupuncture works for nerve pain?

Vnsmkr

Vnsmkr

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
Just curious if anyone has had success with acupuncture or any other alternatives besides back surgery.

I have some slipped discs and sciatica with my lower spine straightening from the injury. Tried all the different PT treatments from water therapy to regular PT treatments..

Want to get back to work soon so looking for something that REALLY helps.

I've tried tens unit and all of that already, too. So any ideas other than those listed would be cool.

And go!
Click to expand...
Hot yoga?
 
butterbudface

butterbudface

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
Just curious if anyone has had success with acupuncture or any other alternatives besides back surgery.

I have some slipped discs and sciatica with my lower spine straightening from the injury. Tried all the different PT treatments from water therapy to regular PT treatments..

Want to get back to work soon so looking for something that REALLY helps.

I've tried tens unit and all of that already, too. So any ideas other than those listed would be cool.

And go!
Click to expand...
Sup, my mom used to go for acupuncture after a car accident, i remember her always complaining about more pain after she came back from the whatever you call the people doing the acupuncture.

She went for 2 months until she eventually decided to stop the treatment.

I'd go with some cal/mag bru
 
Vnsmkr

Vnsmkr

Well-Known Member
butterbudface said:
Sup, my mom used to go for acupuncture after a car accident, i remember her always complaining about more pain after she came back from the whatever you call the people doing the acupuncture.

She went for 2 months until she eventually decided to stop the treatment.

I'd go with some cal/mag bru
Click to expand...
Sounds like they were stimulating the wrong nerve. Quite common in asia. It works
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Yea, of course the studies were done by big pharma. They want you to believe alternative medicine don't work.
Click to expand...
"Big pharma" isn't into the habit of testing the same medical intervention 3000+ times. The studies were actually done by a wide range of medical research establishments, including the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the vast majority involve trained acupuncturists who were eager to get results. Additionally, the studies are scientific, meaning that the methodology is published for all to review. Anyone who is suspicious of the outcomes are free to find fault in the studies and document the mistakes, or do their own studies. In fact, many, many studies are done by proponents of acupuncture.

The conclusion that acupuncture doesn't work is based on hard-won data that shows no difference between sham (pretend) acupuncture and real acupuncture. It's based on the body of knowledge we have obtained, not just a few select studies. Consider this quote from a recently published article in Scientific American:

"Whether investigators penetrate the skin or not, use needles or toothpicks, target the particular locations on the body cited by acupuncturists or random ones, the same proportion of patients experience more or less the same degree of pain relief." (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-casts-doubt-on-the-value-of-acupuncture/?WT.mc_id=SA_FB_HLTH_FEAT)

So, if we insert needles into the specific places the acupuncturists instruct, or if we just randomly poke people with toothpicks, they report the same relief. Inserting needles into specific places is what defines acupuncture. If we can get the same relief while just pretending to do that, then acupuncture itself is inconsequential. What's important is that people "think" they are getting acpucnture, and in medicine that tells us something. It tells us that what people are reporting is a placebo response. This is backed up by other studies which compare acupuncture to other inert interventions, like relaxing to soft music or getting a foot massage, and found no difference.

You asked if acpucnture works for nerve pain, and the result of decades of carefully conducted scientific studies says no. That doesn't mean you can't try it yourself or that you have to look down upon it. You can have your own prerogative, but what you can't do is pretend that decades of research mean nothing because of the big pharma boogieman. That's what's known in psychology as a justification. It requires no real cognitive investment, and it is a spit in the face to all the honest people who spent their lives earning the qualifications needed to look at the data and interpret the results.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
AlphaPhase said:
Good info to know, I didn't know it could cause loss of motor skills, what the hell else haven't my docs told me grrrr. They said if I start pissing my pants then there's some serious stuff going on so I took note of that.

I actually used to have an inversion table and it worked great! Only problem was I had high blood pressure at the time so when I would go upside down on it, it would basically make me pass out and be really dizzy. But my BP is under control (without atenolol and lisenipril, no meds now) and it's like 125/82ish, so maybe I'll give it a shot again. I actually ended up giving the one I had to a friend that loved it, so I have to get another one. Do you know of any good brands? I want the teeter hang up but I'm pretty sure that one's expensive
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Your doctors did tell you, they mentioned loss of bowel and bladder control.

Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for brands. You may wish to check out local gyms. I'd look for one with an inversion table and a pool. Water aerobics, stretching and inversion would be a great start. Healing occurs slowly (6-12 months), so take your time. You need to start exercising, building core strength, that will help the most as inversion helps the disk resorb. This can take about 6 months to 1 year. I'd also reduce high impact activities for the next few months.
 
KLITE

KLITE

Well-Known Member
Listening to seemingly porchestrated noises of the lower frequency range also has proven effects on your body, you know oscillations agitations and terpidations. Heres a few songs my doctor reccomended for my liver therapy:





 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
"Big pharma" isn't into the habit of testing the same medical intervention 3000+ times. The studies were actually done by a wide range of medical research establishments, including the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the vast majority involve trained acupuncturists who were eager to get results. Additionally, the studies are scientific, meaning that the methodology is published for all to review. Anyone who is suspicious of the outcomes are free to find fault in the studies and document the mistakes, or do their own studies. In fact, many, many studies are done by proponents of acupuncture.

The conclusion that acupuncture doesn't work is based on hard-won data that shows no difference between sham (pretend) acupuncture and real acupuncture. It's based on the body of knowledge we have obtained, not just a few select studies. Consider this quote from a recently published article in Scientific American:

"Whether investigators penetrate the skin or not, use needles or toothpicks, target the particular locations on the body cited by acupuncturists or random ones, the same proportion of patients experience more or less the same degree of pain relief." (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/research-casts-doubt-on-the-value-of-acupuncture/?WT.mc_id=SA_FB_HLTH_FEAT)

So, if we insert needles into the specific places the acupuncturists instruct, or if we just randomly poke people with toothpicks, they report the same relief. Inserting needles into specific places is what defines acupuncture. If we can get the same relief while just pretending to do that, then acupuncture itself is inconsequential. What's important is that people "think" they are getting acpucnture, and in medicine that tells us something. It tells us that what people are reporting is a placebo response. This is backed up by other studies which compare acupuncture to other inert interventions, like relaxing to soft music or getting a foot massage, and found no difference.

You asked if acpucnture works for nerve pain, and the result of decades of carefully conducted scientific studies says no. That doesn't mean you can't try it yourself or that you have to look down upon it. You can have your own prerogative, but what you can't do is pretend that decades of research mean nothing because of the big pharma boogieman. That's what's known in psychology as a justification. It requires no real cognitive investment, and it is a spit in the face to all the honest people who spent their lives earning the qualifications needed to look at the data and interpret the results.
Click to expand...
I didn't ask brother, the op has.

Have you had acupuncture? Yes or no.

I have, and got relief from it.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I didn't ask brother, the op has.

Have you had acupuncture? Yes or no.

I have, and got relief from it.
Click to expand...

Nope, I haven't had it. I'm glad you found relief, and if the question were "did you improve after receiving acupuncture" that would be fine. The question, however, is does it work? There is no treatment, no matter how implausible or baseless, for which we would not expect some of the people who try it to honestly report that it works. If judging the efficacy of medicine were as simple as asking the patient how they feel we wouldn't need clinical trials. This is demonstrated by the existence of testimonials for everything from faith healing to psychic curse removal.

So, while I do not doubt your word that things improved, that doesn't really help us much. Without controlled conditions and documented evidence, there is no way to be sure if your improvement was due to acpucnture. We know there are many reasons why patients can seem to improve that have nothing to do with the treatment. We also know that when we do control for factors and document evidence, acpucnture doesn't work. When things only seem to work when we are not looking too closely at them, that a pretty big red flag that the perceived efficacy is illusory.

That doesn't mean patients are lying, stupid or didn't feel relief, it just means that reality is more complicated than "X happened and then Y happened, therefore X caused Y." If you went in for treatment and felt relief after merely being poked randomly with toothpicks, you would honestly feel that it helped you as well. Evaluating the value of a medical intervention is not as simple as hearing the patients sing its praises.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Nope, I haven't had it. I'm glad you found relief, and if the question were "did you improve after receiving acupuncture" that would be fine. The question, however, is does it work? There is no treatment, no matter how implausible or baseless, for which we would not expect some of the people who try it to honestly report that it works. If judging the efficacy of medicine were as simple as asking the patient how they feel we wouldn't need clinical trials. This is demonstrated by the existence of testimonials for everything from faith healing to psychic curse removal.

So, while I do not doubt your word that things improved, that doesn't really help us much. Without controlled conditions and documented evidence, there is no way to be sure if your improvement was due to acpucnture. We know there are many reasons why patients can seem to improve that have nothing to do with the treatment. We also know that when we do control for factors and document evidence, acpucnture doesn't work. When things only seem to work when we are not looking too closely at them, that a pretty big red flag that the perceived efficacy is illusory.

That doesn't mean patients are lying, stupid or didn't feel relief, it just means that reality is more complicated than "X happened and then Y happened, therefore X caused Y." If you went in for treatment and felt relief after merely being poked randomly with toothpicks, you would honestly feel that it helped you as well. Evaluating the value of a medical intervention is not as simple as hearing the patients sing its praises.
Click to expand...
Lol.

Clinical trials? You got to be shitting me right?

The medical field and big pharma don't won't to heal you. They want you on exspenive pills all your life.

Yes, if I have an accident or get hurt bad, take me to a hospital. We have great trams care.

As far as everyday health? The best thing to do is get off all the pills. Eat right, exercise and drink plenty of water.

I have a couple ole timers in my family that are medicine men. Guys in their 70's that can put a hurting on me hiking the mountains. They herbs and roots to heal just about everything.

Don't believe me? Ask someone that's went to medical or phamarcy school. My step sister is in school to be a pharmd. Anyways, big pharma controls those schools and they control and lie on trials.
 
qwizoking

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
ive never had real relief from a tens unit except on shallow problemos..
and even then, it feels better to just have my girl massage my hand. (xut off and reattached index finger)

theres a machine that you can get put in your back. near your kidney..minimal if any discomfort while sitting that sends electric signals to stop the pain, adjustable. pulses etc..




i didnt really read, but that has proven helpful to many..seen people on fent popping oxy or whatever theyre on go off all meds and actually start a healthy active lifestyle..
 
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