Assange doesn't have shit.

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Then why this? Because where there is smoke, there is fire..


Debbie Wasserman Schultz to resign as DNC chair as email scandal rocks Democrats
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Yes, DWS really fucked up. The people working for the DNC should have been neutral towards the candidates. It still doesn't mean shit as far as this election goes. You have difficulty with your truthy wannabe opiniony stuff that really isn't based on fact.
 
socalcoolmx

socalcoolmx

Well-Known Member
"The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad."

Because Hilary is so darn helpful what a great leader

Thanks, Hill
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
socalcoolmx said:
"The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad."

Because Hilary is so darn helpful what a great leader

Thanks, Hill
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The best way for Israel to deal with Iran is for them to actually want to solve the issues in the occupied territories.

Iran is in the middle of a silent cultural revolution since the end of sanctions, there's even Iranian men wearing headscarves to protest the fact women are forced to wear them.

We need to welcome Iran into the developed, rational world instead of mistreating them and forcing them onto the fringe.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
The best way for Israel to deal with Iran is for them to actually want to solve the issues in the occupied territories.

Iran is in the middle of a silent cultural revolution since the end of sanctions, there's even Iranian men wearing headscarves to protest the fact women are forced to wear them.

We need to welcome Iran into the developed, rational world instead of mistreating them and forcing them onto the fringe.
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socal was quoting a statement by Hillary from wiki-leaks collection of State Dept emails released in May. Clinton advocated toppling Assad to help Israel. Hillary also negotiated a treaty with Iran that doesn't do what you suggest -- sanctions and the like are still in place. Just saying that your position isn't well represented in Clinton's policies as head of State Dept. Israel and the US, not Iran are the greatest threats to peace in the region. That's not going to change under Clinton's presidency.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
socal was quoting a statement by Hillary from wiki-leaks collection of State Dept emails released in May. Clinton advocated toppling Assad to help Israel. Hillary also negotiated a treaty with Iran that doesn't do what you suggest -- sanctions and the like are still in place. Just saying that your position isn't well represented in Clinton's policies as head of State Dept. Israel and the US, not Iran are the greatest threats to peace in the region. That's not going to change under Clinton's presidency.
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Most sanctions have been rescinded and if they continue to play ball the rest will be gone in a couple of years.

Iran will become a US Ally in the next 10 years I'd say, given they're the most rational and stable State in the region.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Most sanctions have been rescinded and if they continue to play ball the rest will be gone in a couple of years.

Iran will become a US Ally in the next 10 years I'd say, given they're the most rational and stable State in the region.
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As long as US allies itself with an Israel that occupies territories, threatens the region with nuclear weapons, suffocates the economy of Palestinian held regions and besieges Gaza, I fail to see how Iran can possibly ally itself with the US.

"Most sanctions have been rescinded" also means sanctions are in place. Also means sanctions can be restored. I'm not saying Iran's theocracy creates a utopia for it's people. I would agree that the people of Iran would be better off without the theocrats in charge. The fact remains that Iranian theocrats have a firm grip on the politics of Iran. They not going to give an inch when it comes to Israel and that is the nub of their argument with the US.

Israel's political leaders are pugnacious Zionists. Iran's leaders are religious zealots. So, no, this situation in the middle east is going to fester as long as Israel acts the aggressor and threatens to dominate its neighbors while Iran also pursues a role of leadership in the area. Iran can't become an ally of the US unless the relationship between the US and Israel changes. I don't see that happening in the next ten years.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
As long as US allies itself with an Israel that occupies territories, threatens the region with nuclear weapons, suffocates the economy of Palestinian held regions and besieges Gaza, I fail to see how Iran can possibly ally itself with the US.

"Most sanctions have been rescinded" also means sanctions are in place. Also means sanctions can be restored. I'm not saying Iran's theocracy creates a utopia for it's people. I would agree that the people of Iran would be better off without the theocrats in charge. The fact remains that Iranian theocrats have a firm grip on the politics of Iran and they not going to give an inch when it comes to Israel and that is the nub of their argument with the US.

Israel's political leaders are pugnacious Zionists. Iran's leaders are religious zealots. So, no, this situation in the middle east is going to fester as long as Israel acts the aggressor and threatens to dominate its neighbors while Iran also pursues a role of leadership in the area. Iran can't become an ally of the US unless the relationship between the US and Israel changes. I don't see that happening in the next ten years.
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Sometimes things take time to build. When they fall apart it usually happens quicker.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Sometimes things take time to build. When they fall apart it usually happens quicker.
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That bridge is a good analogy of the situation in the Middle East. Can you imagine what the driver of that vehicle went through? I think in another video, the driver got out and made tracks out of there. I'd like to think the US is that driver but really, the US plays the role of the architect of that bridge.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
That bridge is a good analogy of the situation in the Middle East. Can you imagine what the driver of that vehicle went through? I think in another video, the driver got out and made tracks out of there. I'd like to think the US is that driver but really, the US plays the role of the architect of that bridge.
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What i was thinkin.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
That bridge is a good analogy of the situation in the Middle East. Can you imagine what the driver of that vehicle went through? I think in another video, the driver got out and made tracks out of there. I'd like to think the US is that driver but really, the US plays the role of the architect of that bridge.
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And what a shitty bridge we've been building.

Thankfully Hillary will fix it all, just wait and see.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Odd that you think it is all about US. It is not. Whoever is elected will be entering a landmine strewn field. At least Hillary knows it. Donald would do this...

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Could you explain how it's not?

We keep toppling the "peace keeping" dictators/regimes and then their countries turn into the shit stains of the world.
 
zeddd

zeddd

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
All three of those words have meant many things and there is overlap in all 3. With what I think you mean, I agree. What a liberal is in the original sense of the word, a classical liberal, is what I think so called libertarians attempt to emulate while a libertarian originally meant a left-wing, anticapitalist anarchist. Republican is a term in use possibly earlier than the Roman empire in some form. In Rome, a republican was someone who opposed an imperial form of gov't but simply became someone who supported certain senators.

Words as we see, can be appropriated.
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Lol maybe you are right, Plato, tard
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Could you explain how it's not?

We keep toppling the "peace keeping" dictators/regimes and then their countries turn into the shit stains of the world.
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As if that is the only thing to happen. Yes, I am also aware that we were propping the dictatorships up. The fact is, the divisions between tribes and peoples there are thousands of years old and supersede all of our meddling. Just as there is no simple cause, there is no easy solution.

I think it is wrong for you to oversimplify the situation by calling them "peace-keeping" dictators. Peace to one group is often at the expense of another group. I don't believe in trying to hold back the tide.

Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
As if that is the only thing to happen. Yes, I am also aware that we were propping the dictatorships up. The fact is, the divisions between tribes and peoples there are thousands of years old and supersede all of our meddling. Just as there is no simple cause, there is no easy solution.

I think it is wrong for you to oversimplify the situation by calling them "peace-keeping" dictators. Peace to one group is often at the expense of another group. I don't believe in trying to hold back the tide.

Take up the White Man's burden, The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of Famine And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought.
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I agree there are a number of factors, however our Imperialist meddling has caused huge damage to the already unstable region.

Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran...is there any country we haven't fucked with in the region in the past 60 years?
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
I agree there are a number of factors, however our Imperialist meddling has caused huge damage to the already unstable region.

Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran...is there any country we haven't fucked with in the region in the past 60 years?
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I guess in a sense we have. But each country has its own internal fault lines. The one thing the regimes had in common was that the radical islamic factions were always getting repressed. I don't really think it was our policy goal but we certainly went along with it. More commonly, we supported a ruling side while it repressed rival factions, sects and tribes.

I am not so down on our historical policies in the region. They made some sense if you consider the Cold War and the way we envisioned our national interests in the region. It is really quite tricky to go into the middle east and not end up with everybody hating you. Pretty much every historical player in the region is suffering a similar fate. Terrorism in America barely exists relative to most of them.

The ridiculous thing to me is somehow thinking we can prevent it. We can't. So buckle up and get used to it. The road out of this is not a short one. You cannot bomb an idea into submission. You cannot prevent the spread of an idea across international borders. You can, however, make it worse be playing into the narrative that feeds the idea's spread. Cutting off immigration while you bomb countries into the stone age seems to play right into the terrorists hands and it seems like what we want to do right now. We'll see how it plays out.
 
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