Hillary Supporters Want To Repeal 2nd Amendment

[Rizlared]

Certainly, and thank you for asking politely.

Here's an excerpt from one of your posts, I added the bold.

I will attempt to answer but first, why do people feel the need to own or want guns? I don't understand this, genuinely

I think, unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that those who's job it is to remove guns from society would have to be armed equally as those they are taking them from.

Guns should never have been allowed, made legal, that simple.

As that genie is out of the bag I guess the best way forward is to a) make ownership illegal AFTER a certain date, all firearms to be handed in.
B) compensate ALL those who comply before that date
C) criminalise those who don't comply and then enforce

Yeah, I was asked a question I hadn't considered before and, thinking aloud I came up with the above.

I see the dilemma

So, guns have been made illegal. An amnesty has passed where people can hand them in and be compensated.

So let's not send armed police to disarm.

If it is known that someone had firearms, can you think of a way that those individuals could be disadvantaged to such a degree that they would rather give up their guns?

Cut off gas, electricity. Remove employment rights ?!?! Again, just riffing, but surely conditions could be created to make people prefer to comply ?

Is it inconceivable that a non confrontational solution could be found?

Obviously if someone is using one then force would be required, but that is about disarming a violent criminal

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

oh wow.

Thank you, you have genuinely made me think about my position.

Ok, I don't think that is an example of brainwashing (although I may be missing an angle I haven't already considered)
but I do think it challenges my views on armed police.

I will attempt to answer but first, why do people feel the need to own or want guns? I don't understand this, genuinely

I think, unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that those who's job it is to remove guns from society would have to be armed equally as those they are taking them from.

Guns should never have been allowed, made legal, that simple.

As that genie is out of the bag I guess the best way forward is to a) make ownership illegal AFTER a certain date, all firearms to be handed in.
B) compensate ALL those who comply before that date
C) criminalise those who don't comply and then enforce

It might get messy but looking at the murder stats in the USA, shit is already messy.

Ideally, after a time, you could then have a discussion about disarming the cops

Just riffing here.

Feel free to correct me

What you are missing is that crime is a mentality and socio-economic problem... if you remove the guns is it going to stop crime?

Do you think that once the guns have been removed, that people intent on killing wouldn't simply employ another weapon of choice to do the killing?

How many spree killers licensed their weapons, or do they normally acquire their weapons of choice on the blackmarket?

Have you not noticed how disproportionately (to the point of being miltarized) the police have become...Do you think that is normal?

What do you think will happen when all the peoples guns have been removed, and they are then left with the reality of having to face/trust a heavily armed state to do the right thing?

What did American forefathers warn of...what is it they had the foresight to see, that you are at this point in time blind to?

I am by no means an advocate for guns but a gun is merely a tool, at the end of the day it is people who have urges to kill other people that is the problem, and last time I checked the state does a heck of a lot of killing. Imagine an unarmed people having to face that heavily armed monster.

Unfortunately Guns are the one deterent keeping that monster in check...watch what happens when all the peoples guns have been removed!

 

[UncleBuck]

I am by no means an advocate for guns...Guns are the one deterent keeping that monster in check...watch what happens when all the peoples guns have been removed!

transparent.

what happened in australia?

 

[Rizlared]

What you are missing is that crime is a mentality and socio-economic problem... if you remove the guns is it going to stop crime?

Do you think that once the guns have been removed, that people intent on killing wouldn't simply employ another weapon of choice to do the killing?

How many spree killers licensed their weapons, or do they normally acquire their weapons of choice on the blackmarket?

Have you not noticed how disproportionately (to the point of being miltarized) the police have become...Do you think that is normal?

What do you think will happen when all the peoples guns have been removed, and they are then left with the reality of having to face/trust a heavily armed state to do the right thing?

What did American forefathers warn of...what is it they had the foresight to see, that you are at this point in time blind to?

I am by no means an advocate for guns but a gun is merely a tool, at the end of the day it is people who have urges to kill other people that is the problem, and last time I checked the state does a heck of a lot of killing. Imagine an unarmed people having to face that heavily armed monster.

Unfortunately Guns are the one deterent keeping that monster in check...watch what happens when all the peoples guns have been removed!

I am not missing any of these points.

I have no gun, I fear no monsters.

Zero guns = zero gun crime.

Not zero crime...ive never claimed this.

It is true that crime will still exist and the causes of this should be addressed. There is a massive difference in being punched and being shot.

In a fit of rage if someone has no gun they can't reach for it.

Please do not assume I know about what your forefathers warned you of as I don't

(I do know they warned you against a privately owned central bank and yet you have one. One that creates debt to enslave people. Focus on that, research that, see what the implications of that are. It makes the right to own a gun issue a trivial one)

So you live in a state you can not trust?

A gun is going to fix this? It won't.

Unlicenced guns exist in all nations and yet the usa has more gun crime than most first world nations.

The more guns available, the more gun crime there will be

 

[Rizlared]

Yeah, I was asked a question I hadn't considered before and, thinking aloud I came up with the above.

I see the dilemma

So, guns have been made illegal. An amnesty has passed where people can hand them in and be compensated.

So let's not send armed police to disarm.

If it is known that someone had firearms, can you think of a way that those individuals could be disadvantaged to such a degree that they would rather give up their guns?

Cut off gas, electricity. Remove employment rights ?!?! Again, just riffing, but surely conditions could be created to make people prefer to comply ?

Is it inconceivable that a non confrontational solution could be found?

Obviously if someone is using one then force would be required, but that is about disarming a violent criminal

Other possibilities...tax them so severely that it simply isn't worth owning one.

More than one tool is available if there is the will

 

[schuylaar]

They are two different animals. Smoking can cause lung and gum cancer because the smoke comes into contact with those parts. Kind of like water sitting on untreated metal. It will rust eventually.

Crime on the other hand has multiple influences and causes. Since the Jim crow era, politicians and private citizens have been doing their best to hold back the potential of black americans. Red lining, underfunding the schools and police in black neighborhoods, drug laws that permanently strip citizens of their access to aid for school/food/housing, and aggressively targeting black communities has led to them distrusting authority.

So you have large communities with inadequate education, lacking police protection, and the current economy hurts black youth who are looking for jobs.

All of these causes lead to increased crime.

Second hand smoke causes cancer, too.

 

[schuylaar]

Perhaps someone, I did ask earlier, can explain to me the appeal of gun ownership?

Same reason they drive those big fucking trucks and when they get out, they are all of 5'4".

So take a guess.

 

[bluntmassa1]

Well no matter what law is passed guns will always be in America.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Again, correlation does not equal causation.

Poverty, mismanagement of public funds, permanent criminal status, jailed for life fathers, antagonizers and so on, all have a combined affect of making crime more prevalent.

More guns does not cause more crime. More guns does not prevent crime either imo. They aren't really related.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-says-who

I saw this guy yesterday Pie and immediately thought of you. Watch him closely as you need more of his skillz. Just look at the straight face and banal demeanor while he serves piss and calls it lemonade.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Is that your neighbor's sign?

View attachment 3760544

so free market.

wow

much freedom

 

[SneekyNinja]

I am not missing any of these points.

I have no gun, I fear no monsters.

Zero guns = zero gun crime.

Not zero crime...ive never claimed this.

It is true that crime will still exist and the causes of this should be addressed. There is a massive difference in being punched and being shot.

In a fit of rage if someone has no gun they can't reach for it.

Please do not assume I know about what your forefathers warned you of as I don't

(I do know they warned you against a privately owned central bank and yet you have one. One that creates debt to enslave people. Focus on that, research that, see what the implications of that are. It makes the right to own a gun issue a trivial one)

So you live in a state you can not trust?

A gun is going to fix this? It won't.

Unlicenced guns exist in all nations and yet the usa has more gun crime than most first world nations.

The more guns available, the more gun crime there will be

London - Stab Capital of the World

 

[xmatox]

so what is the cause of gun violence then, if not more guns?

Mental illness and poverty would be a good start.

 

[xmatox]

you said: "in states where there are tighter gun regs there is more gun crime"

lowest gun crime rates: california, minnesota, new jersey, connecticut, new york, massachusetts, rhode island and hawaii.

toughest gun laws: rhode island, illinoios, hawaii, new york, massachusetts, maryland, new jersey, connecticut, california


http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/06/21/the-10-states-with-the-least-gun-violence/4/

http://political-issues.insidegov.com/stories/10617/states-toughest-gun-laws#24-California


your penis is tiny, and you are a dumb racist.

Oakland, Baltimore, Chicago, and Newark are some of the most violent places in America. All these cities are within some of the states listed above, and these same cities also have some of the worst murder rates. I'm not supporting zedd, but wanted to point out that even the "Safe, tough gun law" states have gun violence issues.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

I am not missing any of these points.

I have no gun, I fear no monsters.

Zero guns = zero gun crime.

Not zero crime...ive never claimed this.

It is true that crime will still exist and the causes of this should be addressed. There is a massive difference in being punched and being shot.

In a fit of rage if someone has no gun they can't reach for it.

Zero guns = zero gun crime...are you for real your answer is way off base... how many countries are guns illegal in, don't such countries still have gun crime?..

If someone is determined to kill en-masse they will get hold of the Guns regardless, and it is very niave to think otherwise....

Do the majority of licenced gun owners go out and kill...what do the statistics say???

Please do not assume I know about what your forefathers warned you of as I don't

(I do know they warned you against a privately owned central bank and yet you have one. One that creates debt to enslave people. Focus on that, research that, see what the implications of that are. It makes the right to own a gun issue a trivial one)

They are not my forefathers lol...maybe I should have said founding fathers you do remember those guys right?

I know all about the debt trick and the fact that what people believe to be money isn't but whilst they buy into the illusion and totally miss the point of what REAL wealth is then all is good for the slave masters up top.....Now I am curious to know whether you comprehend what legal and illegal relates to as opposed to lawful and unlawful?

So you live in a state you can not trust?

More to the point do you trust anyything that comes out of a politicians mouth???

A gun is going to fix this? It won't.

No gun can fix a broken society... but when state sponsored assasination becomes the norm it sure would be nice to be able to defend yourself and your family on a level playing field.

Unlicenced guns exist in all nations and yet the usa has more gun crime than most first world nations.

The more guns available, the more gun crime there will be

Not sure where you are going with this statement because it looks to me like you are equating outlawing guns with "Zero guns = zero gun crime"......The amount of gun crime isn't simply down to the availability..plenty of countries where guns are illegal (and supposedly unavailable) yet they still have gun crime...take it you do not know about all the annual shootings in Europe?

As to your comment about first world Nations, well I am not too sure what that definition even means considering all libyan's were once given $2000+ a month state handout, plus free health care and free University yet they were not even considered to be a first world nation.....So on that note I will say there are plenty more countries where guns are regulated that have worse gun crime than usa....and since Israel is considered a first world country yet it is butchering palestinians left right and centre I reckon proportionally (if not outright) there is way more gun totting killing going on there than the usa!

 

[Rizlared]

Zero guns = zero gun crime...are you for real your answer is way off base... how many countries are guns illegal in, don't such countries still have gun crime?..

If someone is determined to kill en-masse they wiill get hold of the Guns regardless, and it is very niave to think otherwise....

Do the majority of licenced gun owners go out and kill...what do the statistics say???




They are not my forefathers lol...maybe I should have said founding fathers you do remember those guys right?

I know all about the debt trick and the fact that what people believe to be money isn't but whilst they buy into the illusion and totally miss the point of what REAL wealth is then all is good for the slave masters up top.....Now I am curious to know whether you comprehend what legal and illegal relates to as opposed to lawful and unlawful?




More to the point do you trust anyything that comes out of a politicians mouth???




No gun can fix a broken society... but when state sponsored assasination becomes the norm it sure would be nice to be able to defend yourself and your family on a level playing field.



Not sure where you are going with this statement because it looks to me like you are equating outlawing guns with "Zero guns = zero gun crime"......The amount of gun crime isn't simply down to the availability..plenty of countries where guns are illegal (and supposedly unavailable) yet they still have gun crime...take it you do not know about all the annual shootings in Europe?

As to your comment about first world Nations, well I am not too sure what that definition even means considering all libyan's were once given $2000+ a month state handout, plus free health care and free University yet they were not even considered to be a first world nation.....So on that note I will say there are plenty more countries where guns are regulated that have worse gun crime than usa....and since Israel is considered a first world country yet it is butchering palestinians left right and centre I reckon proportionally (if not outright) there is way more gun totting killing going on there than the usa!

Please try and follow what I say instead of looking for an argument.

Zero guns = zero gun crime

^^^ indisputable fact.

I never said making them illegal will acheive zero guns but as zero guns = zero gun crime that surely has to be the goal.

Using Isreal in the context of domestic crime is plain ridiculous.

You believe that if the state want to take you out that owning a gun means you are playing on a level playing field? This is also ridiculous, you aren't.
They have the numbers and hardware you have yet to even hear about

You mention the shootings in Europe so I ask you, and please answer it rather than deflect and abuse as is the tactic of choice with some on here....how many people died as a result of gun crime in Spain, uk, France, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Belgium Netherlands last year?
How many died as a result of gun crime in the usa?

 

[Rizlared]

and no, why would I remember the founding fathers of the usa?
It's irrelevant to Europeans and not on the uk curriculum

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Please try and follow what I say instead of looking for an argument.

Zero guns = zero gun crime

^^^ indisputable fact.

And unrealistic "Fact"

I never said making them illegal will acheive zero guns but as zero guns = zero gun crime that surely has to be the goal.

And in this gun free scenario of yours does that include Government guns?

Using Isreal in the context of domestic crime is plain ridiculous.

Hmmm pretty certain first world nation Israel considers it a domestic problem, nice try with your "ridiculous" comment

You believe that if the state want to take you out that owning a gun means you are playing on a level playing field?

Not really, but in this situation sure is better than the unarmed nothingness you are advocating.

You mention the shootings in Europe so I ask you, and please answer it rather than deflect and abuse as is the tactic of choice with some on here....how many people died as a result of gun crime in Spain, uk, France, Portugal, Italy, Germany, Belgium Netherlands last year?
How many died as a result of gun crime in the usa?

Ah so you are talking deaths now, I thought we were talking about gun crime, move the goalposts why don't you lol...But sure I would be happy to go digging figures once you get back to me with regards to the distinction between legal and lawful, and what the true reality of that situation represents and no abusiveness nor deflections please

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

and no, why would I remember the founding fathers of the usa?
It's irrelevant to Europeans and not on the uk curriculum

And that right there is your problem...for your world view is clearly limited...and you simply cannot see the lessons in history.

If you don't know your past and how it helps to shape the present then, you most certainly will not see where this future is heading as is clear in your case.

And for the record I am from the Uk also, but that did not stop me from learning!!!

 

[Rizlared]

L

And unrealistic "Fact"



And in this gun free scenario of yours does that include Government guns?



Hmmm pretty certain first world nation Israel considers it a domestic problem, nice try with your "ridiculous" comment



Not really, but in this situation sure is better than the unarmed nothingness you are advocating.



Ah so you are talking deaths now, I thought we were talking about gun crime, move the goalposts why don't you lol...But sure I would be happy to go digging figures once you get back to me with regards to the distinction between legal and lawful, and what the true reality of that situation represents and no abusiveness nor deflections please

listen, I like to chat, chew the fat.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest or arguing over semantics.

If you think the situation in Isreal is comparable to the usa then it's pointless trying to converse with you.

I wish you well in life

 

[Rizlared]

For clarity, I sometimes have time to kill and enjoy discussing issues of gravitas

I'm not here to 'win'

I have better ways of killing time than to get into idiotic arguments.

Happy to chat to those who'd like to but getting a bit tired with people intentionally twisting what is said in a futile attempt to point score.

Example...usa gun crime and isreals occupation of Palestine being comparable