Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1

[ttystikk]

The problem with flooding rockwool is that if you don't give it enough time between flood cycles, it will fuck your plants up. It looks like that might be your issue from the pictures.

 

[Lucky Luke]

No real experience in hydro but could you cut away the rock wool and throw it at your neighbor and place ur plants directly in the medium you are using? (those red balls.) Then go directly to a simple flood and drain cycle?

Sorry if it's a silly suggestion but wouldn't they act like a vermiculite/ perlite mix?

 

[ttystikk]

No real experience in hydro but could you cut away the rock wool and throw it at your neighbor and place ur plants directly in the medium you are using? (those red balls.) Then go directly to a simple flood and drain cycle?

Sorry if it's a silly suggestion but wouldn't they act like a vermiculite/ perlite mix?

Then he could flood n drain the hydroton several times a day and get shit rolling.

Coco is still better, and Tupur is best in class.

 

[ruwtz]

@Lucky Luke @ttystikk I am using the hydroton for drainage only and its a shallow layer of no more than an inch in a 4" low rise table. It is not going to provide depth for root growth or plant stability.

I wouldn't feel good about cutting/removing rock wool without extensive root damage. Instead, what about 1 or 2 gal coco pots with these blocks with a hydroton layer at the bottom? I would hand water only for a week or so until the roots were established into the coco, then start flooding.

I have been told that the medium for veg and flower should be the same to avoid shock, and flower is planned for coco.

Switching to coco is almost certainly how i'm going for future cycles so this could be a reasonable compromise at this stage, no?

After that, rock wool is banned round here.

 

[Wisher2]

both cuttings and seeds go directly into coco
I mix my own Coco/Perlite
before I put my sprouted seed in....I drench the coco in 350ppm nutrients....mostly calmg
then once they have popped....I just flood from below and allow the roots to drink what they like
I have never had a problem ever
even when coco is at full saturation....it still hold 20-30% h2o
in my experience I have never seen a plant drown in coco

you could very easily fill the container of your choice with coco...then a small layer of hydroton then your RW block topped with more coco
you can then flood the table....and the roots/RW block will be seperated by that thin layer of hydroton....but the coco will be moist.....the roots will seek the moisture....and once they hit the coco they will take off
just a suggestion
you could experiment with the worst lookin plant
and stick the pot in a tray and flood the tray and just let the nutes sit there....until soaked up....the rw will continue to dry and the roots will go searching through the hydroton to get those nutes and h2o....once that happens...more roots will search and the grow continues

 

[ruwtz]

both cuttings and seeds go directly into coco
I mix my own Coco/Perlite
before I put my sprouted seed in....I drench the coco in 350ppm nutrients....mostly calmg
then once they have popped....I just flood from below and allow the roots to drink what they like
I have never had a problem ever
even when coco is at full saturation....it still hold 20-30% h2o
in my experience I have never seen a plant drown in coco

you could very easily fill the container of your choice with coco...then a small layer of hydroton then your RW block topped with more coco
you can then flood the table....and the roots/RW block will be seperated by that thin layer of hydroton....but the coco will be moist.....the roots will seek the moisture....and once they hit the coco they will take off
just a suggestion
you could experiment with the worst lookin plant
and stick the pot in a tray and flood the tray and just let the nutes sit there....until soaked up....the rw will continue to dry and the roots will go searching through the hydroton to get those nutes and h2o....once that happens...more roots will search and the grow continues

OK so first thing tomorrow i'm going to get a bunch of 1gal fabric pots for transplanting the cubes into coco. None of these 36 plants are doing as they should so I think i'm just gonna go all in. Nothing to lose at this point.

I will load the coco with the res nutes: pH5.7 + 710ppm so the roots have something to aspire to. I already have several bags of the Botanicare coco aeration mix good to go.

Will report back once its done.

 

[Wisher2]

take a few cuttings of the best of each plant.....just in case something falls apart.....that 500 didnt go down the drain

 

[ruwtz]

I was prudent in the end and only potted up six plants instead of them all. I went with 2gal smart pots as the 6" cubes fit neatly inside with enough room on the sides for air but with the coco mat around the stem on top cutting out any light.

- One test is with a 3" layer of hydroton in the pot
- Another test is a 3-4" layer of coco, using Botanicare's aeration mix (50/50 perlite)

In each test I took a Larry, a Blackjack and a 24K Gold - all healthy with abundant root growth at the base of the cube so hopefully they have a head start in these pots.

Six plants in total, placed in trays so I can water the base only. This will be tricky as they have been isolated from the flood table and I will have to do it manually. The trays are deep enough to saturate the base medium without ever touching the rockwool. The aim is to dry the rockwool right back and then only keep slightly moist with occasional top watering. This is the compromise to maintain these plants only: no more rock wool in this system going forward.



The hydroton won't retain any water so it will take more repeat waterings than the coco, but I am hoping both mediums drain well.

Both tests have been soaked for a minute or so - pH5.7 + 710ppm from the res - before d2w.

We will see what comes out best. My preference is with the coco since that is what is set for flower so transplant will be easier. With the hydroton I am already picturing significant root damage when trying to transplant out of these 2gal pots to the 7gal in flower. I'll probably just dunk til the balls float and free the roots.

Ideally I would like to pot up in coco, toss them on this hydroton layer in the table and flood away, every day. I have high hopes for this adjusted setup but didn't want to test on 36 plants and lose them all in a crazy roll of the dice.

What do you think guys? Are we gonna esssplode here or what??

 

[Lucky Luke]

Again..novice..but a Q all the same if thats ok?

The ones with the Coco and mix. Could you get away with not hand watering that tub and just leave some solution in the tub? Like a SIP system.

 

[Wisher2]

Again..novice..but a Q all the same if thats ok?

The ones with the Coco and mix. Could you get away with not hand watering that tub and just leave some solution in the tub? Like a SIP system.

that is actually what I do with my plants for baby's and mothers
I sit them in a tray and water from the bottom about an inch up and just let it sit......once a month I flush....with the same ec solution...but from the top to flush away any salt buildup

 

[Lucky Luke]

that is actually what I do with my plants for baby's and mothers
I sit them in a tray and water from the bottom about an inch up and just let it sit......once a month I flush....with the same ec solution...but from the top to flush away any salt buildup

Im also using a simple SIP system. (see sig) Its handy not having to check on the plants for a few days if ur going away.

 

[ruwtz]

Im also using a simple SIP system. (see sig) Its handy not having to check on the plants for a few days if ur going away.

I'm not so keen on having trays of water lying around: don't want to overwork my household dehu, I have been seeing ants, i'm invested in getting this E&F table and BIG res to work for me, and... just... still water, yeah, not turning me on at all. Glad it works for you guys though.

Thats the thing with this game... so many ways of reaching the same goal. It can be hard to know when to listen and what to follow, I guess a lot of it comes down to common sense before you're able to turn it into real experience.

I'm hoping I can get it working with pots of coco on the table and flooded regularly. I'm running this little test but I've realized just now it might be flawed since I need to manually water as they have been separated from the table where all the other non-potted plants are, ergo doesn't reflect how I want to end up.

I might just have to take the leap and do them all so I can get them used to flooding and have those roots climbing through the coco layer. Right now i'm reading around to see examples of coco/E&F systems.

Any thoughts?

 

[ruwtz]

Also i'm getting a very good deal on Botanicare's aeration mix, which is heavy on perlite but also has silica, earthworm castings, seaweed concentrate, and preloaded with various bennies and myco and "organic humates".

Sounds like a good soil to me?? Reading around some people are saying they treat it like one too. Salt buildup being a typical issue.

I might test a cup with 0ppm and see what I get out of it and bear that in mind. I would hate to swap overwatering for overfeeding after all this.

 

[ttystikk]

Again..novice..but a Q all the same if thats ok?

The ones with the Coco and mix. Could you get away with not hand watering that tub and just leave some solution in the tub? Like a SIP system.

My first shot at this was definitely not a success. I believe it can be done, but I need to learn more about it.

 

[Lucky Luke]

My first shot at this was definitely not a success. I believe it can be done, but I need to learn more about it.

Sorry if sometimes I ask a Q thats off track.
New to indoor after many decades away and im soaking up any info i can absorb (some of the info is to technical for me to absorb or im not familer with the product or practice.). Its so much different from outdoor. And we have the internet these days!!! My local hydro store doesnt even stock LED let alone COB's.... so thank fk for the internet!

I do apologize if I sometimes ask something silly. I can grow..really I can..lol. I did have a flood and drain system going in about '91 using perlite/vermiculite and 2x HID. Worked well but nowhere near up to the sophistication of the OP's build.

 

[Wisher2]

I'm not so keen on having trays of water lying around: don't want to overwork my household dehu, I have been seeing ants, i'm invested in getting this E&F table and BIG res to work for me, and... just... still water, yeah, not turning me on at all. Glad it works for you guys though.

Thats the thing with this game... so many ways of reaching the same goal. It can be hard to know when to listen and what to follow, I guess a lot of it comes down to common sense before you're able to turn it into real experience.

I'm hoping I can get it working with pots of coco on the table and flooded regularly. I'm running this little test but I've realized just now it might be flawed since I need to manually water as they have been separated from the table where all the other non-potted plants are, ergo doesn't reflect how I want to end up.

I might just have to take the leap and do them all so I can get them used to flooding and have those roots climbing through the coco layer. Right now i'm reading around to see examples of coco/E&F systems.

Any thoughts?

watch Vader's chanel on youtube

 

[Wisher2]

if you watch this video series
it will literally give you a step by step guide on exactly what you are doing
literally
coco Flood and Drain
from start to finish

 

[ruwtz]

One of my tests was also one of the sickest looking Blackjacks: stubby, underdeveloped, poor root development at cube base, stunted new growth, droopy foliage for days, and as of this morning some of the biggest leaves looking dry and curled up. It cannot be heat or wind stress. They look very thirsty so I knew I have a significant problem here, maybe even plant damage killing her off.



Although sporting a decent 1/2" basal stem it narrowed significantly where it joined the cube to the point where it felt very unstable (see pic 2 below). In soil I would just bury it higher of course but not so straightforward in rock wool. Deciding that this, together with poor roots, was probably starving the plant, and I chopped the best branches for clones and cut the rest of her down.

Take a look inside. Very poor roots for a 30 day old plant, some damping off also possible. I think she choked to death down here.



Unfortunately I have another couple of plants looking very similar at the basal stem, making them fragile / top heavy. I have taped them to avoid any further bending and with any luck they can fix themselves.

 

[Wisher2]

One of my tests was also one of the sickest looking Blackjacks: stubby, underdeveloped, poor root development at cube base, stunted new growth, droopy foliage for days, and as of this morning some of the biggest leaves looking dry and curled up. It cannot be heat or wind stress. They look very thirsty so I knew I have a significant problem here, maybe even plant damage killing her off.

View attachment 3781442

Although sporting a decent 1/2" basal stem it narrowed significantly where it joined the cube to the point where it felt very unstable (see pic 2 below). In soil I would just bury it higher of course but not so straightforward in rock wool. Deciding that this, together with poor roots, was probably starving the plant, and I chopped the best branches for clones and cut the rest of her down.

Take a look inside. Very poor roots for a 30 day old plant, some damping off also possible. I think she choked to death down here.

View attachment 3781446 View attachment 3781447 View attachment 3781449

Unfortunately I have another couple of plants looking very similar at the basal stem, making them fragile / top heavy. I have taped them to avoid any further bending and with any luck they can fix themselves.

View attachment 3781462 View attachment 3781463

that is real bad.!!!!.Pythium!!!!!!..I would def cut clones of every single plant ...and then kill them off
start over and sterilize everything no RW of course
hopefully the potted up plants fair better

 

[ttystikk]

Doubtful. That's called elephant's foot and what it means is that the plant is cut off from its nutrient supply.

I've saved some plants in the very early stages by liberally spraying the affected area with isopropyl alcohol to kill the pathogen.