New Loft Grow Room - Input Appreciated

[Roger A. Shrubber]

nice harvest. pretty extreme defoliation, hope it works out for you

 

[loftygoals]

It is indeed extreme!

Based on three a light:

I'm hoping for the same yield with more manageable plants and easier trimming as all the buds should develop to roughly the same size... That's the theory anyway!

If it works great, if not I can always try something else on the next run

 

[TigerSquad]

Hey guys,

I've been planning my new loft grow room for about 3 months and been working on it for about 6 weeks. I was aiming to get growing at the start of Feb but am a couple weeks behind as it's been a lot more work than I thought.

I'd been thinking of growing for a few years but never had anywhere suitable. It needed to be hidden away from prying eyes. So one night a few months back I opened up the loft hatch to see if it would be suitable... wow!

View attachment 3605422
Loads of room but dusty, cold and drafty! No way was it suitable like that. There was loads of junk up there. 4 TV aerials laying around, a garage door which had been broken into pieces and someone decided to store in the loft?! So I got cleaning, cleared the central area and started laying a chipboard floor. This was hard work with no proper lighting, dust was everywhere but I got there eventually...

View attachment 3605423

With a floor done I could work without being scared of putting my foot through a ceiling (came close a few times!). I ran 2.5mm mains cable off the upstairs mains electric supply in a ring. I wired up 5 double sockets for a start which should be able to supply 32A 240V (7680 watts max) in total.

View attachment 3605424

Now for insulation. I decided on celotex between the rafters. I've only gone with 50mm which I think is enough (I have my own FLIR camera arriving soon so I should be able to take a good look at the roof myself ). The U value of unfilled cavity walls of this house would be 1.6 W/mk while the celotex has a U value of 0.44 W/mk which means the roof should be loosing about 4x less heat than the walls (it's not quite that simple because I'm leaving the timbers uninsulated other than some aluminium tape but you get the idea... 50mm of celotex should be plenty in theory).

View attachment 3605425

This was quite a challenge! The rafters were all different widths apart and some were at wonky angles... but I got there in the end.

View attachment 3605426

I used expanding polyurethane foam to seal off the corners completely and aluminium tape on all joins.

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This week I've been building an insulated stud wall on the party wall to keep out any stray noise/smells from the neighbours. I'm almost done. Just need to tape up the studwork. It's been pretty hard work because I have a no power tools or hammering after 6:30pm rule (common sense IMO) and most days I'm at work during the day... anyway we got there eventually!

View attachment 3605428

So I'm almost at the point where I can get started growing. I didn't want to germinate anything and not have things setup properly then mess around with small plants in the room while I'm sawing timbers and insulation.

Today I went and cleaning up the house. I've even changed the bathroom extractor fan outlet to a larger grill (the old fan didn't work and the old grill was badly yellowed anyway). I've repainted the bathroom ceiling and loft hatch with Dulux Trade Diamond paint which is supposed to be 10x tougher than normal paint so can be cleaned to remove any signs that I've been using the hatch

I'm relatively limited for headroom particularly around the sides where the roof slopes in. So I've bought 2 8x4 foot Roof Qube tents. They'll go in the middle obviously and I'll probably link them together in the future. I'm planning a RDWC setup and have bought most of the bits. Then I'm a little stuck with how best to use the rest of the space? This was my thinking (grey lines are load bearing walls or massive 2x15 inch beams):

View attachment 3605429
So I'm thinking I can build 2x veg cabinets into the corners to get my plants started for 2-3 weeks and then move them into the central tents. The whole loft area is going to be supplied with air from a single side vent which was already in place and I'll be venting into the bathroom via an extra large extractor fan vent which is carbon filtered. The central tents are going to run their own 8 inch carbon filter too so any air going into the house will be double filtered from flowering plants. I'll be running a 265W dehumidifier in the grow room and then a 500W dehumidifier in the house to keep condensation down. I have an industrial Ozone generator which I'll run if I open up the tents.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments?

Planning something special for lighting too... water cooled DIY COB LEDs being cooled by a car radiator and a 16inch 1800cfm car radiator fan blowing over it

I am extremely jellious. That place looked like a dungeon in a castle great job. I'm a carpenter myself and it right work.

 

[TigerSquad]

This afternoon I've spent a couple of hours working on the floor. I had to fit in new boards around 2 large 2.4mx0.6m boards which had been placed up there previously and had been hammered in with nails (prone to squeaks). Well the joins between the new and old boards were really squeaky and the old boards were coming loose in places. I had considered ripping up that section of floor and just replacing it with new but it seemed quite a waste of time and effort just to eliminate some squeaks. So... I bought some steel mending plates:View attachment 3606743
After an hour with my impact driver, 19 mending plates and 300 screws... the floor is completely squeak free The old nails have been reinforced with screws too so it should stay squeak free for good

I also had another look at the layout and hit a stumbling block! I hadn't considered the space the loft ladder takes when it's up in the loft (as I'm never up there with it fully up). So I climbed up while the ladder was still up in the loft and checked out how much space it takes... Luckily with some juggling I can still fit my tents in But the tent nearest the ladder needs to move over so it's in the recess in the party wall. That means the veg cabinet on that side gets bigger and the one on the other side gets squashed to make it pretty worthless. So it looks like I'm having 1 larger 8x8 veg room now rather than smaller ones on each side... will make my life easier in the long run too

Here's the new layout:
View attachment 3606762

Nawww should sprayed some dw40 in der suuun lol that's a lot of work for a say my floor.

 

[TigerSquad]

Thanks

Never done a grow before so a little apprehensive about it and defo don't want to get caught!

Have just ordered some pond liner for the floor. By my calculations the central floor area should hold over 1000 litres (If I have a barrier around the edges a minimum of 4 inches high) before it starts overflowing. Considering there's not going to be that much water up there in the first place it should survive a full on disastrous complete system water loss without damaging the ceilings below... that's the plan anyway

Gonna be starting with 8 Blueberry fem seeds. I'm setting Friday 19th Feb as my seed start date now. Should have the cabinets built and the roof tested with the FLIR camera by then *fingers crossed*

Is the cam to check the thermal temp out of the space

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

"trimmigrants"....i like that...i see wondering tribes of gypsies that trim all day and roll finger hash all night

 

[Cornishi]

So I have some final dry weights for Purple Afghan Kush and Pineapple Express... drumroll...

PAK 352g (+8 seeds)
PE 617g (+3 seeds)

PAK was 4 plants in a 4x4 area under 600w
PE was 4 plants in a 4x6 area under approx 8-900w (had them spread into space next to my Blueberry plants as there were only 2 of those)

Considering the root rot I had in veg and the fact this is my first grow I'm reasonably happy.

I didn't run my lights at full power (2100w per 8x4) due to the heat it created in the loft. It was managable until ambient temps hit 18C outside and then all hell broke loose as my small portable AC tipped over the edge and couldn't keep up. As we're in summer now, it would have been fine on some cooler days but others not so much. Since I don't want to micro manage lighting every day based on the weather forecast I just decided to go with 1200w per 8x4 until the weather is consistently cool.

Blueberry came down yesterday at 69 days and Viper Cookies is coming down today/tomorrow. Viper Cookies looks like it's going to give a monster yield... possibly around 700g in a 4x4 under 600w (but they were stealing a lot of light from the PAK plants which were a lot shorter).

Trimming is driving me insane! Seriously we need some trimmigrants in the UK. I would happily pay someone to trim for me! Am considering buying a tumbling trimmer like the Twister T4 but I've told myself I need at least 2 grows and over 6 lbs per crop before it would be sensible...

I've also setup one of my tents for Round 2 and made some "adjustments" to my growing method this time...

Previously I wanted to just let the plants grow out naturally as this is my first grow. Some supercropping where absolutely necessary, a little LST and tying to hold things up. No defoliation unless the leaves were dead. This time round I'm going to the other extreme, LST'd in veg, mass defoliation at flip (removing every single fan leaf), SCROG net for support which will be lowered to canopy level after 1 week of flower.

Also the oscillating floor fan took up quite a bit of canopy space and has caused serious wind burn to one of my Viper Cookies. I've ditched it and suspended 2x 9" floor fans from the tent's ceiling. Air flow seems pretty good so hopefully that's a winner.

They say a pic is worth a thousand words?

Here's 6x Pineapple Express + 2x Purple Afghan Kush...

Extreme defoliation at flip:
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Bare naked ladies:
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3 days later:
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I haven't defoliated the PAK this time round as I don't think they'll respond well. They are slow vegging short plants which flowered very quickly and didn't stretch much so I'll just leave them be for now.

What's your hourly pay for trimming? Haha

 

[loftygoals]

What's your hourly pay for trimming? Haha

10% of the weed you trim, cup of coffee and a biscuit? Any takers?!

I joke but it's getting *really* tedious!

 

[resinhead]

Pretty ballzy with that defoliation! It will be interesting to see the results! Thank you! And nice work! Really nice!

 

[loftygoals]

Pretty ballzy with that defoliation! It will be interesting to see the results! Thank you! And nice work! Really nice!

If the guy is selling his book for $500 a pop he must think there's something in it. Only way to find out is to give it a go

I've seen some talk about it but no real results. Worst case is I get a smaller yield and use it as a learning experience. Best case I have a load of massive colas! I'm willing to take the risk

 

[Moflow]

"trimmigrants"....i like that...i see wondering tribes of gypsies that trim all day and roll finger hash all night

My mate gets £200, as much as he wants to smoke and a 1/4 O for 5 hours constant trimming! Lol lol

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

so whats up? how did the harvest turn out? what are we growing next? what are you going to do to modify those cobs?.....i told you, we aint used to 6 episodes a year

 

[loftygoals]

so whats up? how did the harvest turn out? what are we growing next? what are you going to do to modify those cobs?.....i told you, we aint used to 6 episodes a year

Hi Lol!

All is well here

First grow totals were:
Purple Afghan Kush 352g (4 plants)
Pineapple Express 617g (4 plants)
Blueberry 359g (2 plants)
Viper Cookies 751g (6 plants)
Total: 2079g from 2400w = 0.87gpw

I had thought it was only roughly 1800g, but I had counted the total up wrong in my head. Not actually too shabby from cheapo chinese COBs and a first grow.

The PAK is by far the stand out high quality bud. Anyone who's had a try has been in love. I've had very experienced people telling me it's the best smoke they've ever had. Bit of a shame it yields half the other strains I've been running.

Anyway since then I started my second grow pretty much straight away. I did some extreme defoliation and also upgraded my lights in the first 2-3 weeks.



I ended up removing the SCROG net to upgrade the lighting more easily and never put it back up again. Grow #3 will definitely be a SCROG with minimal defoliation to compare to previous grows.

Here's a pic of the lighting setup currently with 30 COBs at 600w per 4x4. I will be adding another 600w per 8x4 tent over the next couple of weeks as the weather should allow 2kW per tent from now on.



I have the tents running on a strict 12/12 via a homemade flip box (https://www.rollitup.org/t/cheap-diy-flip-box.913197/) which has worked really well.

I guess I'll go take some pics tonight... but in my 2 tents I currently have:

Tent #1 (8x4) (all 55 day phenos currently on day 37)
Pineapple Express x6
Purple Afghan Kush x2

Tent #2 (8x4) (all 10 week phenos currently on day 30)
Viper Cookies x7
Blueberry x1

Veg room (currently 30 days of veg - topped once)
Pineapple Express x8
Blueberry x8

Not sure what I'm going to go with on round 4. I'm thinking of adding Kosher Kush or Super Lemon Haze?

I also have an appointment with an engineering firm next week to make up heated plates for a hydraulic Rosin press. I have all the parts together but need some holes drilled more precisely than I can manage by hand. The total should come to around £150 (already have a suitable hydraulic press) which is orders of magnitude cheaper than anything I could buy retail.

 

[loftygoals]

I just went and took some pics... damn peer pressure!

Here's a shot of Purple Afghan Kush at 37 days:



Here's a trichome shot with my new macro lens... I've been lusting over a proper macro lens for about 4 years, finally caved in last week! Gotta love new toys



Here's the Viper Cookies / Blueberry tent at 30 days, considering the defoliation they went through at flip they recovered well:



And finally the veg room (8 plants at the back are 30 days old, 8 at the front are 23 days old; all topped yesterday):

 

[cindysid]

Hi Lofty. Just got thru reading the whole thread! What a project! I have learned so much. I'm currently growing in soil, and I'm on my 4th round indoors. I just built a new 9x9 grow room and I was thinking of trying non passive hydro.. Now I'm glad I didn't! I did a hempy sog my first grow and had a good harvest, but with 49 plants in a 4 x 4 tent, it was a nightmare! I'm sold on hempy buckets though....just fewer plants! How do you feel the defoliation has worked out for you? Does it seem as if it might have set them back any?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

everything looks really good.
i was curious about the defoliation experiment myself. hows that going? seems like every time i strip any sun leaves off a plant it takes its sweet time getting over it.

 

[loftygoals]

Hi Lofty. Just got thru reading the whole thread! What a project! I have learned so much. I'm currently growing in soil, and I'm on my 4th round indoors. I just built a new 9x9 grow room and I was thinking of trying non passive hydro.. Now I'm glad I didn't! I did a hempy sog my first grow and had a good harvest, but with 49 plants in a 4 x 4 tent, it was a nightmare! I'm sold on hempy buckets though....just fewer plants! How do you feel the defoliation has worked out for you? Does it seem as if it might have set them back any?

Defoliation definitely got rid of any smaller undeveloped bud sites. Everything has come up the same size all over the plants which will help hand trimming massively.

Defoliation definitely set the plants back significantly in terms of overall plant size. If you can veg for 6-8 weeks and you have strains which finish in 10 weeks they have the size and time to recover. But if you can only veg for 4 weeks or less and the strain finishes in 7-8 weeks then I'm certain yields will suffer as the plants just can't catch up compared to an untouched plant.

I'll not be defoliating any quick flowering strains in the future but Viper Cookies and Blueberry have both responded perfectly.

 

[loftygoals]

everything looks really good.
i was curious about the defoliation experiment myself. hows that going? seems like every time i strip any sun leaves off a plant it takes its sweet time getting over it.

I'd say the plants get set back 3-5 days in early flower. We all know early flower is when they stretch so you end up with significantly smaller plants if they're quick flowering (strains that only stretch for 18-21 days). Longer flowering strains that stretch for 28 days can still recover size well and fill out the available space with the advantage of being all big buds.

I can see why some people are for it and some people against it.

For comparison the back 4 plants here are Viper Cookies at 4 weeks with no defoliation:



Compared to this run there is not much difference in overall plant size but there are more/bigger bud sites this time round.

 

[PDX Joe]

Autopot system just needs the reservoir filling. The 6 plants drink about 3L per day max so I just add 20L per week to keep it ticking over. Takes literally 10 mins to mix and top up. I also supercrop anything that's getting too close to the lights. For 6 plants it takes less than 20 mins per week. Insanely simple to maintain.

16 vegging hempies get trained once a week and I add also 1L of nutes to each bucket twice a week. I probably spend around 2h per week on them.

Flowering hempies need watering every other day for the first 3 weeks of flower and then the bigger plants need daily watering. I also remove any dead leaves and mop up any runoff. I spend about 1h per day on those.

Overall not too bad. The only complaint I have is that I can't leave the flowering girls alone for more than 2 days.

Hi Loftygoals,

I'm a huge fan of SIPS for my outdoor vegetable garden. So, I'm going to try the Autopots for my cannabis grow closet because the system seems similar. How do you fill your reservoir? Do you let it get to almost the bottom and then fill it up again with water/ nutrient mix or do you top it off frequently? What's your overall system for managing the reservoir and nutrients? I think I'm going to try the Jack's 321 system with coco that Greengenes likes to use... seems simple and inexpensive. Thanks!

 

[loftygoals]

Hi Loftygoals,

I'm a huge fan of SIPS for my outdoor vegetable garden. So, I'm going to try the Autopots for my cannabis grow closet because the system seems similar. How do you fill your reservoir? Do you let it get to almost the bottom and then fill it up again with water/ nutrient mix or do you top it off frequently? What's your overall system for managing the reservoir and nutrients? I think I'm going to try the Jack's 321 system with coco that Greengenes likes to use... seems simple and inexpensive. Thanks!

I have a schedule which includes checking on the autopot reservoir once a week. If it's under 1/3 full I add 20L.

I probably only need to fill it twice a month. These are not flowering plants though.

My reservoir is 47L and I have found my plants drink about 2L per day in flower. So 6 plants would drink the res dry every 4 days (2L x 6plants = 12L per day). You could use this rough calculation to add a bigger res and get more time between filling the system or feed more plants.