SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[FullCarve]

I'm setting up my outdoor SIPs. I'm a little concerned, after doing my unintentional air stone vs no air stone test, that my outside res's won't have any forced air movement. A lot of the pre-manufactured SIPs (EarthBox etc) are all designed to be run outside, but they seem to have larger openings where the overflow is, its not just a 1/4" hole. One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. Any thoughts on that? Would I just be breeding mosquitos? Maybe I need to put goldfish in there....

Hi Rob,

I am pretty interested in this idea.

especially,

"One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. "


I have searched for many times for this set up but here all seem just use a resi with a couple overflow holes only and with airstones.
your idea looks pretty effective but i wonder why not many ppl won't implement this idea???

I assume:

1. May too many side air holes for aeration cause bugs/mosquito issues???
-> Then why not just patch over the mosquito screens so that it won't let any thing into the resi but still let the air in?

2. May cause too fast dry out the water in the resi??

3. Already the airstones in the the resi create enough air(Oxygen) for the roots?
->But from my understanding... if the resi is almost completely sealed, with that stuck air inside the resi, how does it work to create oxygen????

4. Too many air holes on the side of the resi may cause the lights come through in and cause some light exposure???

 

[Humanrob]

There is a fork in the road with SIPs, and two schools of thought. Some people simply want a "self watering" system, so that the soil is consistently moist and they can go away for periods of time without having to worry about watering. Others seem to want a hydro/soil blend, to get the best of both worlds in terms of benefits. If you want the latter, then using an airstone is the only way to go (IMO).

I have not used an airstone in any of my outdoor SIPs, I decided not to run extension cords all over the back yard (I will always use them indoors). When I pulled apart a SIP mid-season, there were almost no roots at all growing in the water, and from last winter's indoor, the only roots growing in the water were around the airstone. So, my outdoor SIPs are just a way of keeping the plants at an even and consistent level of moisture. That in itself enhances growth to some degree, it seems, but not nearly as much as when an airstone is introduced.

I did drill 1/4" holes 2-3" apart around the air zone between the water and the soil. I've had to move a couple of my SIP plants around the garden, as plans have changed or I've noticed spots with better sun exposure. When I've pulled them apart, there are usually slugs inside, and various other bugs. Nothing I would call an infestation or a problem, its a garden, there are bugs everywhere. A couple of times when filling the SIPs I've noticed as the water inside rose towards the overfill hole, gnats would come out the hole as if the water was chasing them. I hate gnats (residual from indoor grow issues early on), but even they were only a temporary problem. If I don't top water the SIPs, the gnats don't survive.

I've only begun experimenting with SIPs. I will continue to use them indoors, but I'm not sure if I'll run them again outside. Plants are so much happier if you just put them in the ground. There is no comparison. If I were only able to do a rooftop/balcony/patio grow (in other words didn't have access to the ground), then I would definitely stick with SIPs, if nothing else they simplify watering enough to be worth using them.

EDIT: I read the first line of the post of mine you quoted, and I also have a SIP thread in the outdoor section which has been more active... I wasn't paying attention and I thought this was the outdoor thread.... so my response is based on that. Hope it's still helpful.

Hi Rob,

I am pretty interested in this idea.

especially,

"One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. "


I have searched for many times for this set up but here all seem just use a resi with a couple overflow holes only and with airstones.
your idea looks pretty effective but i wonder why not many ppl won't implement this idea???

I assume:

1. May too many side air holes for aeration cause bugs/mosquito issues???
-> Then why not just patch over the mosquito screens so that it won't let any thing into the resi but still let the air in?

2. May cause too fast dry out the water in the resi??

3. Already the airstones in the the resi create enough air(Oxygen) for the roots?
->But from my understanding... if the resi is almost completely sealed, with that stuck air inside the resi, how does it work to create oxygen????

4. Too many air holes on the side of the resi may cause the lights come through in and cause some light exposure???

 

[FullCarve]

There is a fork in the road with SIPs, and two schools of thought. Some people simply want a "self watering" system, so that the soil is consistently moist and they can go away for periods of time without having to worry about watering. Others seem to want a hydro/soil blend, to get the best of both worlds in terms of benefits. If you want the latter, then using an airstone is the only way to go (IMO).

I have not used an airstone in any of my outdoor SIPs, I decided not to run extension cords all over the back yard (I will always use them indoors). When I pulled apart a SIP mid-season, there were almost no roots at all growing in the water, and from last winter's indoor, the only roots growing in the water were around the airstone. So, my outdoor SIPs are just a way of keeping the plants at an even and consistent level of moisture. That in itself enhances growth to some degree, it seems, but not nearly as much as when an airstone is introduced.

I did drill 1/4" holes 2-3" apart around the air zone between the water and the soil. I've had to move a couple of my SIP plants around the garden, as plans have changed or I've noticed spots with better sun exposure. When I've pulled them apart, there are usually slugs inside, and various other bugs. Nothing I would call an infestation or a problem, its a garden, there are bugs everywhere. A couple of times when filling the SIPs I've noticed as the water inside rose towards the overfill hole, gnats would come out the hole as if the water was chasing them. I hate gnats (residual from indoor grow issues early on), but even they were only a temporary problem. If I don't top water the SIPs, the gnats don't survive.

I've only begun experimenting with SIPs. I will continue to use them indoors, but I'm not sure if I'll run them again outside. Plants are so much happier if you just put them in the ground. There is no comparison. If I were only able to do a rooftop/balcony/patio grow (in other words didn't have access to the ground), then I would definitely stick with SIPs, if nothing else they simplify watering enough to be worth using them.

EDIT: I read the first line of the post of mine you quoted, and I also have a SIP thread in the outdoor section which has been more active... I wasn't paying attention and I thought this was the outdoor thread.... so my response is based on that. Hope it's still helpful.

Hi Rob, Thx for replying.

I was going to post in the outdoor section that you were in more in active, but the idea im having now is for indoor SIP using an air stones in a resi and I was inspired by your idea which was


""One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. ""

so i thought this thread was still the right place?

if this idea was going to be implemented to an indoor SIP, and i would cut out a lot of those small holes in the gap between the water level and the bottom of the pot, and wrap a mosquito nets around the holes, and put an oscillating fan facing to the resi to boost blow air in. and finally install an airstone with a pump?

but as I mentioned earlier, I haven found out any of this, even similar design SIP, there gotta be for some reason, which I have completely no idea.

do you think if the bunch side air holes were made will make too much humidity out? or too fast dry the resi out? or some unknown side effects?

Appreciate and sorry for my noob questions

 

[Humanrob]

@FullCarve -- I would not recommend the extra holes. One of the places my research into SIPs started was looking at the tutorials and instructions that came with commercially made SIPs, like Earthbox. They seal the top of the soil with a plastic liner that your plants grow through, and it serves a lot of purposes from interfering with bug life cycles (it eliminated gnats entirely for me), to helping control humidity. I'm not sure about where you live or your personal philosophy on humidity, but where I live, humidity=powdery mildew (I have to run a dehumidifier during lights out all winter long).

Most of the systems I've seen -- both commercial and DIY -- seem to be relatively closed systems, and seem to work well that way. Once the plants get going, they are going to drink most of the water in just a few days (depending on your soil to water ratio and other factors). The water won't sit long enough to get "stale". Plus, with an airstone you are keeping it oxygenated and I think pretty healthy overall. Keep it simple and have fun!

 

[Tim Fox]

the way I understood it, is the SIP functions like a hempy bucket when there is no air stone, and air is pushed or pulled thru the over flow hole as the res level goes down, or when the rest is filled back up,, the push and pull of air is what exchanges it in a hempy and an earthbox, or a non airstone sip,,
this is for an above ground sip of course

 

[Cornishi]

This SIP m'larkley is good. Got some massive rootnetworks in my reservoir!
Plants exploded as soon as roots hit the water too.

Only thing I struggled with is catching the right dosage for feeding. Had to top feed 1 dose of nutes to balance them as I didn't think the water roots would get the uptake fast enough and they hadn't quite expanded int the water enough.

Not running air stones either - so I reckon if I did they'd be going absolutely mental. Might order some to chuck in there. They're like 4 weeks from seed now. So still time.

 

[Tim Fox]

This SIP m'larkley is good. Got some massive rootnetworks in my reservoir!
Plants exploded as soon as roots hit the water too.

Only thing I struggled with is catching the right dosage for feeding. Had to top feed 1 dose of nutes to balance them as I didn't think the water roots would get the uptake fast enough and they hadn't quite expanded int the water enough.

Not running air stones either - so I reckon if I did they'd be going absolutely mental. Might order some to chuck in there. They're like 4 weeks from seed now. So still time.

how do you like those airpots?

 

[Cornishi]

how do you like those airpots?

They are ok, just never get the root structure I'd like. So far sip pots are giving me bigger roots. Not bad either considering I transplanted and near killed them all. 5 of my 4 plants fell out of the grow bags and ripped half their roots out. Thought it was game over

But they bounced back!!

 

[wollkopf]

Hey guys,
I build a sip for my indoor grow from low profile storage boxes. The "res box" has a volume of ~1 cf and is 60 cm wide, 40 cm deep and 12 cm heigh. Inside of this tub i placed two smaller ~ 0,4 cf tubs, that just fit in perfect and leave me a small place between them to Hand water. I drilled 6 2 inch diameter holes in the bottom of each small tub and inserted a perforated plastic shot glas from Jägermeister in it.

I filled them with my soil mix and at the moment I m running my 5th grow with this system and it works like a charm!

 

[Humanrob]

Hey guys,
I build a sip for my indoor grow from low profile storage boxes. The "res box" has a volume of ~1 cf and is 60 cm wide, 40 cm deep and 12 cm heigh. Inside of this tub i placed two smaller ~ 0,4 cf tubs, that just fit in perfect and leave me a small place between them to Hand water. I drilled 6 2 inch diameter holes in the bottom of each small tub and inserted a perforated plastic shot glas from Jägermeister in it.

I filled them with my soil mix and at the moment I m running my 5th grow with this system and it works like a charm!

Got any pictures?

 

[wollkopf]

Finished learning for today
Frontview of my small cabinet
Little bit more details
Final of my last grow (Amnesia haze)

 

[Tim Fox]

Finished learning for today
Frontview of my small cabinet View attachment 3783745
Little bit more details View attachment 3783746
Final of my last grow (Amnesia haze) View attachment 3783747

DUDE thats so compact,, I love it,, do you have any build pics?

 

[wollkopf]

No unfortunately not... At least not really. I have some pictures I took during the build, but no good ones...
Maybe something like this:

 

[Tim Fox]

No unfortunately not... At least not really. I have some pictures I took during the build, but no good ones...
Maybe something like this:
View attachment 3783752

Ok so the Res is in the large outside container,, the inside containers are completly full of soil mix, and the Wicks are the shot glasses,, is that wood I see spacing up the inside containers?,,

 

[wollkopf]

Yes the outer tub is the res. I used 4 wood blocks i vacuumized in plastic foil as spacers to get some more air space. All plastics I used are food grade.

 

[Tim Fox]

Yes the outer tub is the res. I used 4 wood blocks i vacuumized in plastic foil as spacers to get some more air space. All plastics I used are food grade.

I never thought about using a common res for multiple tubs , some of us have thought about an external res but it did not Dawn on me to set two tubs inside of a single res,. Very compact, I think yours is shorter than my earthbox. Which is 11 inches

 

[wollkopf]

I first thought about 3 Inlays, but I couldnt find any fitting boxes... But with 2 boxes I think about an perpetual autoflower grow, with roughly 6 weeks between them.

 

[Tim Fox]

I first thought about 3 Inlays, but I couldnt find any fitting boxes... But with 2 boxes I think about an perpetual autoflower grow, with roughly 6 weeks between them.

How did you determine the wick size? Is there a ratio? Or did you wing it and guess?

 

[wollkopf]

I just guessed, but it seems like i was right

 

[Tim Fox]

my Earthbox Sip outdoors with 2 tomato plants is still thriving,, the plants went into the ground on May 1st which is early around here, and now they have been in the same soil for almost 5 months with no nutes added, ( some cal mag to the res early on while the domolite lime broke down in the soil),, now they are doing better than ever, lots of fruit growing still getting new flowers, and still harvesting ripe red tomatos,, she is drinking near 1.5 gallons per day