So I made myself some CalPhos...

[calliandra]

So I made myself some CalPhos:



And sitting looking at my plant began asking myself, para que?!


it's a
Pineapple express (fast buds) day 50 (~2 weeks to go)
9 colas, LST only
in
3rd generation notill topdressed with compost/eggshell/neem & 4cm quartz sand
2x AACT (bacterial dominant & protozoan-heavy)
alfalfa-buckwheat SST added 2 weeks ago

I'm pretty happy with her!

So, really, what the hell do I do with this stuff?
Happy for all your ideas!

You know, it's been a year since I decided to grow my own indoors and landed here on my quest to replicate the outdoors in my little closet (it was a hazy question at the time, no weed involved!).
It was here at RIU that I turned my attention to the soil, I mean REALLY looked at it for the first time. Thanks to you guys I got to know about the soil food web and it has changed my outlook upon -- just about everything!

I've had my dark times, in which all hope and trust in humanity was lost, but communities like ours here, they are restoring that in me.
We can and we will solve the world's problems in our gardens
Thanks so much for being on this journey too!

So in my beginning days at RIU, I saw lots and lots of these pics, along with crazy-sounding recipes, and me going, omg really?
It was witches brew corner haha
But lo, today, on my countertop, I've got my own:

Isn't it beautiful?
Life! you can just see it! and it feels so natural making these, they just have to be beneficial, right?
Even if I don't even understand a fraction of what I'm doing there haha

Cheers!

 

[Rasta Roy]

Very nice! I was frying up some egg shells last night...went to reach in the cupboard for vinegar...out of vinegar. About to run to the store so I can finish.

And we can change the world with the stuff we learn here. I wasn't composting when I first came on this site to learn. Now I'm renting a two acre lot from the city, and am one of only two composting businesses in the area. The other guy charges...I let people drop off for free... and I collect coffee grounds from a few local shops.

See if your city has any vacant lots they'll rent for cheap. I got two acres for 200 a year...you could do the same if you're so inclined!

 

[420nstargazer]

It's great for a flowering foilar. I use 2 tsps per quart. I personally wouldn't use it this late on your girls, but that's just cause of my mold phobia. I don't use it after 4 weeks in flo

I'm sure you could water with it as well, I just don't know the ratio. Maybe 2tbsp per gallon?

Did you use only egg shells, or did you mix in oyster also?

I said I wouldn't use the foilar with two weeks to go, but I just looked at the pic (she looks great)...unless that's an old pic, you may want to let her go longer. I'd even go ahead and hit her with a foilar if you've got good air circulation

 

[calliandra]

Very nice! I was frying up some egg shells last night...went to reach in the cupboard for vinegar...out of vinegar. About to run to the store so I can finish.

And we can change the world with the stuff we learn here. I wasn't composting when I first came on this site to learn. Now I'm renting a two acre lot from the city, and am one of only two composting businesses in the area. The other guy charges...I let people drop off for free... and I collect coffee grounds from a few local shops.

See if your city has any vacant lots they'll rent for cheap. I got two acres for 200 a year...you could do the same if you're so inclined!

Ah that is so excellent, great move!
It makes me laugh and dance when I hear about stories like that. Way to go man!!

Admittedly, I have been ruminating about "some day", but my plans are longwinded and overcomplicated - way too much so! --- Indeed, why not "just" start with the most basic, and most essential component for any plantbased system
Simple wins out every time!

Our city does have a waste reduction plant, and a few nurseries make some of their compost, but I know a whole group of people off the top of my head who could be interested in guaranteed microbially rich compost, just for starts! So thanks for the "seed", I'll definitely keep my eyes n ears open in that direction. But --- first things first - I have yet to make my first one haha!
Going to happen soon too, winter is coming

It's great for a flowering foilar. I use 2 tsps per quart. I personally wouldn't use it this late on your girls, but that's just cause of my mold phobia. I don't use it after 4 weeks in flo

I'm sure you could water with it as well, I just don't know the ratio. Maybe 2tbsp per gallon?

Did you use only egg shells, or did you mix in oyster also?

I said I wouldn't use the foilar with two weeks to go, but I just looked at the pic (she looks great)...unless that's an old pic, you may want to let her go longer. I'd even go ahead and hit her with a foilar if you've got good air circulation

Ahh! Thanks, could be that was my original thought for it, bloom booster?
Nevermind, sounds like something I want to try!

Yeah it's just egg shells, my general intention being to end up with a self-sustaining system (and the sea's a ways off haha).

I was thinking to strain it (when the particles settle, its more gold-colored) and add the debris to my wormbin.
Is that ok?
Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

Oh, and I went experimental on the left side of my closet too today.

I was out in the garden visiting a new flower bed I'd put together this summer, a tomato sprouted there that is now proceeding to cover all the ground it can and is going into bloom like crazy.


So that reminded me of the principle of SSTs and the fruity juices, by which you add freshly pureed plant parts according to the parts you want to promote in the ones that are going to be fed...
and I've just sprouted a Mephisto Sour Stomper - and she's been dawdling
Autos can't dawdle, it gets me nervous! lol

So I picked two handfuls of the top tomato shoots,

just leavage, no flowers,
chopped and mixed with water in the mixer - to something like a green smoothie, but very frothy

-- kinda smelled like it too, and no I'm not a fan of them for myself (yet?) LOL

Opened a trench in my sand mulch, watered it in, and re-covered with the sand.



Now my dears, do your magic cakes and cookies thing on that!

 

[420nstargazer]

I was thinking to strain it (when the particles settle, its more gold-colored) and add the debris to my wormbin.
Is that ok?
Cheers!

Your worms will erect temples of your likeness and leave sacrifices at the base if you do (at least mine do, gotta love playing god)

I rinse mine to get the vinegar off. I've never researched if it'd play havoc with the ph however, so it may be unnecessary

 

[calliandra]

Your worms will erect temples of your likeness and leave sacrifices at the base if you do (at least mine do, gotta love playing god)

I rinse mine to get the vinegar off. I've never researched if it'd play havoc with the ph however, so it may be unnecessary

Ooooo. Looking forward to that! haha

I checked back on the unconventional farmer page (where I got the recipe from btw), but unfortunately couldn't find anything regarding the acidity. That's something that makes me hold back on making fermented stuff at the moment too, I don't quite get what's happening in there - and prefer using freshmade anyway.

While I was there, I saw they, like you, actually only use the CalPhos during the transition into flower (and later during fruiting), the reasoning being that's the phase they need those nutes most. Which also reminded me of that I'm not feeding the micros here, but providing readily available nutes to the plant directly.

Not that she can't get that herself from the soil.
There are all the nutrients she'll ever want in the soil, it's just a question of having the proper biology in abundance to do the conversions.
I'm starting to understand this kind of additive as, really, a booster, something that will enhance good growth still more, maximizing the space and energy I am inputting to grow that plant.

So the Sour Stomper is going to be the first test candidate for "proper application"

Meanwhile, I'm going to foliar the Pineapple Express anyway to get a better feel for this, you know, learning by actually doing
I'm figuring it can't hurt, since if she doesn't need those readily available nutes, she'll just ignore them.
My setup tends to lean toward the dry, with humidity between 35-45%, so no worries about mold either.
I'll just dilute 2tsp to 1L (=about a quart) water and spray - as far as possible, just the leaves - when lights go out.
Cheers!

 

[DonBrennon]

Ooooo. Looking forward to that! haha

I checked back on the unconventional farmer page (where I got the recipe from btw), but unfortunately couldn't find anything regarding the acidity. That's something that makes me hold back on making fermented stuff at the moment too, I don't quite get what's happening in there - and prefer using freshmade anyway.

While I was there, I saw they, like you, actually only use the CalPhos during the transition into flower (and later during fruiting), the reasoning being that's the phase they need those nutes most. Which also reminded me of that I'm not feeding the micros here, but providing readily available nutes to the plant directly.

Not that she can't get that herself from the soil.
There are all the nutrients she'll ever want in the soil, it's just a question of having the proper biology in abundance to do the conversions.
I'm starting to understand this kind of additive as, really, a booster, something that will enhance good growth still more, maximizing the space and energy I am inputting to grow that plant.

So the Sour Stomper is going to be the first test candidate for "proper application"

Meanwhile, I'm going to foliar the Pineapple Express anyway to get a better feel for this, you know, learning by actually doing
I'm figuring it can't hurt, since if she doesn't need those readily available nutes, she'll just ignore them.
My setup tends to lean toward the dry, with humidity between 35-45%, so no worries about mold either.
I'll just dilute 2tsp to 1L (=about a quart) water and spray - as far as possible, just the leaves - when lights go out.
Cheers!

I'd advise to go 1 tsp/1L to start with, I've fried a full tent of stunning plants with a foliar of this stuff, it's best to test it first, some plants like it more than others. I've decided never to use it again, the only things I foliar now are aloe, ohn and neem oil or some other targeted organic pesticide. Like you said earlier, your soil should be providing enough nutrition

 

[Rasta Roy]

Ooooo. Looking forward to that! haha

I checked back on the unconventional farmer page (where I got the recipe from btw), but unfortunately couldn't find anything regarding the acidity. That's something that makes me hold back on making fermented stuff at the moment too, I don't quite get what's happening in there - and prefer using freshmade anyway.

While I was there, I saw they, like you, actually only use the CalPhos during the transition into flower (and later during fruiting), the reasoning being that's the phase they need those nutes most. Which also reminded me of that I'm not feeding the micros here, but providing readily available nutes to the plant directly.

Not that she can't get that herself from the soil.
There are all the nutrients she'll ever want in the soil, it's just a question of having the proper biology in abundance to do the conversions.
I'm starting to understand this kind of additive as, really, a booster, something that will enhance good growth still more, maximizing the space and energy I am inputting to grow that plant.

So the Sour Stomper is going to be the first test candidate for "proper application"

Meanwhile, I'm going to foliar the Pineapple Express anyway to get a better feel for this, you know, learning by actually doing
I'm figuring it can't hurt, since if she doesn't need those readily available nutes, she'll just ignore them.
My setup tends to lean toward the dry, with humidity between 35-45%, so no worries about mold either.
I'll just dilute 2tsp to 1L (=about a quart) water and spray - as far as possible, just the leaves - when lights go out.
Cheers!

You should be fine to apply as a root drench, by the time you dilute it in water it should be fine. And if your soil is full of pH buffers what should it matter? But I'm with the Don on starting small with a plant or two to test. You dont know how strong that solution turned out.

 

[420nstargazer]

I'd advise to go 1 tsp/1L to start with, I've fried a full tent of stunning plants with a foliar of this stuff, it's best to test it first, some plants like it more than others. I've decided never to use it again, the only things I foliar now are aloe, ohn and neem oil or some other targeted organic pesticide. Like you said earlier, your soil should be providing enough nutritionView attachment 3786745

OHN? What's that, I'm trying to decipher the abbreviations

 

[DonBrennon]

OHN? What's that, I'm trying to decipher the abbreviations

Oriental herb nutrient................good stuff, search master cho, or look at the immunoboost on the unconventional farmer, same stuff

 

[calliandra]

Haha thanks for stepping on the brakes guys

Indeed, I'll just add that tsp when I water her next -- what you all said plus, she's started focusing on her trichs, beginning to appear on the sugar leaves.
The main cola:


Hm I may just make a tomato flower smoothie for her so she builds up some more flowers too? haha...

But I will foliar the CalPhos anyway - I have a rose who has trouble holding up her flowers, they're really massive and her stems wimpy. Being near winter, she won't be showing much action anymore, but then again, I've been thinking that of all the roses for about 2 weeks and they're nowhere near stopping yet

A question:
do we know which kinds of microbial herds are most efficient at the different stages of our plants' lives?
I picked up somewhere that flowering is promoted in a more fungal environment - but noo idea where that was and if that's in any way reliable?

Cheers!

 

[DonBrennon]

Haha thanks for stepping on the brakes guys

Indeed, I'll just add that tsp when I water her next -- what you all said plus, she's started focusing on her trichs, beginning to appear on the sugar leaves.
The main cola:
View attachment 3787039

Hm I may just make a tomato flower smoothie for her so she builds up some more flowers too? haha...

But I will foliar the CalPhos anyway - I have a rose who has trouble holding up her flowers, they're really massive and her stems wimpy. Being near winter, she won't be showing much action anymore, but then again, I've been thinking that of all the roses for about 2 weeks and they're nowhere near stopping yet

A question:
do we know which kinds of microbial herds are most efficient at the different stages of our plants' lives?
I picked up somewhere that flowering is promoted in a more fungal environment - but noo idea where that was and if that's in any way reliable?

Cheers!

From what I've read, heard and watched, it's still up in the air(hope you understand that). There's so much going on in the soil that we don't understand, such as multi-symbiotic relationships. They're so complex and variant that it's hard to actually 'PROVE' anything that's going on down there. Compost tea's are the perfect example of this, we all know they work, but because compost is so variable and results unpredictable(scientifically, through a microscope) the 'Science' world won't get behind it.

Edit.........Elaine Ingham says that the plants themselves control which form of micro-organisms thrive, by which exudates they put out.......if I remember right, they put out more proteins for fungus and carbohydrates for bacteria, I may have miss-remembered this though, LOL

 

[calliandra]

From what I've read, heard and watched, it's still up in the air(hope you understand that). There's so much going on in the soil that we don't understand, such as multi-symbiotic relationships. They're so complex and variant that it's hard to actually 'PROVE' anything that's going on down there. Compost tea's are the perfect example of this, we all know they work, but because compost is so variable and results unpredictable(scientifically, through a microscope) the 'Science' world won't get behind it.

Edit.........Elaine Ingham says that the plants themselves control which form of micro-organisms thrive, by which exudates they put out.......if I remember right, they put out more proteins for fungus and carbohydrates for bacteria, I may have miss-remembered this though, LOL

Yeah we're a far throw from understanding it all, though I'd say we do know enough to harness the power of nature by simply offering a maximum of choice to the plant and entrusting her with the rest. Because, yeah, the plant selects for those microorganisms that provide the nutes it needs in that moment (still trying to absorb the fact that these processes happen in seconds, whole generations of bacteria flowing and ebbing, wow!). The condition being: that those microorganisms are around

I think unlearning certain notions is more important to achieving this than actually knowing the the specifics of single microorganisms (as in who provides which nutrients), and I constantly catch myself thinking in the wrong direction even though I've never used fertilizers in the sense of the moron farmer It's crazy how pervasive the mechanistic world view - which IMO is at the bottom of the chemical interpretation of plant life - is! Add to that the subtle pressure of mostly growing under stealth conditions, making us especially interested in getting all we can out of those tiny gardens... So thanks for saving me from myself, once again?

So taking another step back.
All the nutrients a plant could ever want ARE in the soil.
We just need to provide a rich and diverse pool of microorganisms, from which those will thrive that like the soil conditions (temperature, humidity, aeration), and the plant will additionally select for those that are useful to it.
So basically we're set once we have that diversity of soil life going.

Knowing this, why would I ask such a question? Because I would like to maximize, and while my soil life is getting better and better, I still see room for improvement.
The composts I have been using have been mainly bacterial/amoeba-dominant, and my soil, while it has gotten really bouncy and spongey, was still less fungal last time I checked (maybe I should recheck haha, last time was in August).
So maybe that improvement will come when I get that part of the microbial pool better represented?

But what can I do in the meantime, maybe even promoting fungal expression (assuming I have enough spores in there). That's when I turn to these brews and juices hoping for magic, whereby I am really liking the feel of the SSTs and my improvised smoothies most - maybe also because of the Norwegian Herwig Pommeresche.

He is all about the "humusphere" and Raoul H. Francé's "edaphon" (=soil life, term coined at the turn of the 20th century), references Lynn Margulis and all them, and is convinced that feeding plants LIVE matter (fresh, not composted, fermented or anything) is the best way to go, better than compost, because it provides large molecules, mitochondria, chloroplasts.... for the plant to "eat" directly.
The basis for this being the ability of plant roots to perform endocytosis, and the principle of endosymbiosis, which Hugo Schanderl proposed happens all the time - when a cell "dies", its parts like mitochondria can wander off and form new organisms..
So Pommeresche collects his kitchen scraps, throws them in the mixer with water, and waters all his plants, indoors and out, with that. Fresh plant smoothies. In example of his success with this: 18kg of onions on 1 m² haha!
There isn't much in English out there, but here's a video of him doing that (the English is pretty bad, but I couldn't find the one where Pommeresche himself explains it in English):

I'd love to know what you guys think of this!
Cheers!

 

[DonBrennon]

Yeah we're a far throw from understanding it all, though I'd say we do know enough to harness the power of nature by simply offering a maximum of choice to the plant and entrusting her with the rest. Because, yeah, the plant selects for those microorganisms that provide the nutes it needs in that moment (still trying to absorb the fact that these processes happen in seconds, whole generations of bacteria flowing and ebbing, wow!). The condition being: that those microorganisms are around

I think unlearning certain notions is more important to achieving this than actually knowing the the specifics of single microorganisms (as in who provides which nutrients), and I constantly catch myself thinking in the wrong direction even though I've never used fertilizers in the sense of the moron farmer It's crazy how pervasive the mechanistic world view - which IMO is at the bottom of the chemical interpretation of plant life - is! Add to that the subtle pressure of mostly growing under stealth conditions, making us especially interested in getting all we can out of those tiny gardens... So thanks for saving me from myself, once again?

So taking another step back.
All the nutrients a plant could ever want ARE in the soil.
We just need to provide a rich and diverse pool of microorganisms, from which those will thrive that like the soil conditions (temperature, humidity, aeration), and the plant will additionally select for those that are useful to it.
So basically we're set once we have that diversity of soil life going.

Knowing this, why would I ask such a question? Because I would like to maximize, and while my soil life is getting better and better, I still see room for improvement.
The composts I have been using have been mainly bacterial/amoeba-dominant, and my soil, while it has gotten really bouncy and spongey, was still less fungal last time I checked (maybe I should recheck haha, last time was in August).
So maybe that improvement will come when I get that part of the microbial pool better represented?

But what can I do in the meantime, maybe even promoting fungal expression (assuming I have enough spores in there). That's when I turn to these brews and juices hoping for magic, whereby I am really liking the feel of the SSTs and my improvised smoothies most - maybe also because of the Norwegian Herwig Pommeresche.

He is all about the "humusphere" and Raoul H. Francé's "edaphon" (=soil life, term coined at the turn of the 20th century), references Lynn Margulis and all them, and is convinced that feeding plants LIVE matter (fresh, not composted, fermented or anything) is the best way to go, better than compost, because it provides large molecules, mitochondria, chloroplasts.... for the plant to "eat" directly.
The basis for this being the ability of plant roots to perform endocytosis, and the principle of endosymbiosis, which Hugo Schanderl proposed happens all the time - when a cell "dies", its parts like mitochondria can wander off and form new organisms..
So Pommeresche collects his kitchen scraps, throws them in the mixer with water, and waters all his plants, indoors and out, with that. Fresh plant smoothies. In example of his success with this: 18kg of onions on 1 m² haha!
There isn't much in English out there, but here's a video of him doing that (the English is pretty bad, but I couldn't find the one where Pommeresche himself explains it in English):

I'd love to know what you guys think of this!
Cheers!

Beautiful............and so simple.............

Think I'll try the chlorophyll water on the big sativa in my small tent, she could do with a little greening up. As with anything I try now though, I think I'll go light on the concentration of it at first, the mix he used looked pretty strong. Although I'm not sure this would be an issue, I would be worried about it causing so much microbial action that the soil in a container, indoors, 'may' start to heat up a little.

Has your research uncovered any ratios of how much material to use to add to the water?

 

[iHearAll]

hey are you using eggshell extract?? that's a commonly reposted mislabel. eggshells extract into calcium carbonate. bones extract into calcium phosphate.

soooooerrrrryyyyy

 

[calliandra]

hey are you using eggshell extract?? that's a commonly reposted mislabel. eggshells extract into calcium carbonate. bones extract into calcium phosphate.

soooooerrrrryyyyy

LOL tell them? : http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/recipes/calphos/

I did check the values for
- egg shells: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/210
- bone meal: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/219
and yes, the tables are being revised but just in the way of orientation bone has waaay more (so would be the better source, kinda in line with what you're saying), but the stuff in the eggshells is also phosphorus.
Cheers!

 

[calliandra]

Beautiful............and so simple.............

Think I'll try the chlorophyll water on the big sativa in my small tent, she could do with a little greening up. As with anything I try now though, I think I'll go light on the concentration of it at first, the mix he used looked pretty strong. Although I'm not sure this would be an issue, I would be worried about it causing so much microbial action that the soil in a container, indoors, 'may' start to heat up a little.

Has your research uncovered any ratios of how much material to use to add to the water?

Yeah it is isn't it!

I'll check whether he gives any tips as to amounts somewhere and get back to you on that (I need to browse through a book, a few articles and his online vids )
But I can almost hear him saying, "aah, not so tragic" (with a germanic accent to his English and a dismissing gesture of the hand and a chuckle haha)
I'd say just try it with a handful of greens for starts? And fill the mixer with water to cover it well, like max 1L?
All you're doing is adding fresh organic material after all, and a handful never maKes heat mulching (for example comfrey or clover), only when I add a fat layer of it. Just my gut feeling speaking there

I'm really excited to see whether it helps her!

 

[iHearAll]

LOL tell them? : http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/recipes/calphos/

I did check the values for
- egg shells: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/210
- bone meal: http://www.feedipedia.org/node/219
and yes, the tables are being revised but just in the way of orientation bone has waaay more (so would be the better source, kinda in line with what you're saying), but the stuff in the eggshells is also phosphorus.
Cheers!

right you are! he admits in his comments that it is 95% calcium carbonate and that he should revise his recipe. but that was 2013 lol

 

[Rasta Roy]

right you are! he admits in his comments that it is 95% calcium carbonate and that he should revise his recipe. but that was 2013 lol

So are we getting 5% phosphorus out of it? And can you add bones to the egg mixture to up the phosphorus?