Getting sick of looking at nutrient schedules....

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
ful-power by bioAG. it's supposed to be best form of fulvic? cold pressed vs normal process. sounded legit when i read about it.

didn't know about the reaction with oxidizers. i'm gonna shoot them an email since i use pool shock. want to see if it will be affected or what interactions.

i'll have to read that story. maybe forward it to them along with my inquiry.
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
ful-power by bioAG. it's supposed to be best form of fulvic? cold pressed vs normal process. sounded legit when i read about it.

didn't know about the reaction with oxidizers. i'm gonna shoot them an email since i use pool shock. want to see if it will be affected or what interactions.

i'll have to read that story. maybe forward it to them along with my inquiry.
Damn, should have gone with ful-power. Was torn between that and fulmag.

That might be a good call- I wonder how many of these ag companies actually do analysis of the conditions with chlorine or other oxidizers added. Dutchmaster zone has chlorine i think, but im not sure ive seen any of their nutrients with humics besides the foliar stuff.

I've definitely been trying to research as much as possible on humics, it's such a weird substance. Derived from soft coal that's not quite oil yet, not a specific material, but a category of material.

EDIT: oxidizers shouldnt affect inorganic salts or really anything like that, just effects organics. so im sure most nutrient solutions dont need to be tested for reactions with ORP, just stuff with organics. (wasn't it AN with humics in everything?)
 
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mytwhyt

Well-Known Member
YD,
As long as i keep the ph right i never have any problems... If she's looking a little lite, i up the ppm a little... I plod along with a little over half the recommended strength on the label at all stages.... I'm in the less is just fine group... It's easy to tell if she needs more to eat.. Nowadays i've been adding a little silica blast... With the FNB there seems to be enough for the plants to be able to take what the they want.... You can get good results force feeling a goose.... I've tried that with pot plants, it never ended well..
 
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Yesdog

Well-Known Member
It is really thick, but i was determined to use it... Now i put a hand full of marbles in the gallon jug when i get it...... Shake the shit out of it, decant through a strainer into similar 1 qt. bottles with a few more marbles... Any solids i force through the strainer... With the marbles everything in the bottle mixes... Every time i measure, however much i'm using, it goes straight into a blender with a qt. of PHed water...
I still change drip rings about half way through a cycle.. I'v also added new holes between each of the existing holes in my drip rings, and air stones in the main reservoir and grow bucket reservoir... The things i've done seem to have at least mitigated the thickness problem for me...
. GH couldn't patent a centuries old water column pumping technology, but they sure as hell are making a butt load of money off of it..
The performance of the drip ring can be enhanced ... You if want, you can use it to circulate a reservoir when using a bucket WF, or a dwc, in a bucket or a tub type container..... One drip ring can do all that without the added heat of an electric water pump in the main reservoir... In a dwc, it goes under lid without the drip ring, its only job is to move water from the reservoir.... A few simple plumbing mods are all that's needed....
Not a bad idea with the marbles! I might do that just so i remember to shake the Micro before use.

I converted my drip pump/manifold into... basically a waterfall system. I keep all the ports open fully and flood the sides of each netpot, plus the extra ports just go to waterfalls from the top of the DWC lid. I've got RW on the bottom of my pots, so the RW around the girls should saturate from the bottom up (flow line doesnt hit the top of the rockwool or stem), everything else just waterwalls freely from the top (15m every 1-2 hours). I've got about an 8" gap between the bottom of the pots and the waterline, and maybe 6" of solution. Good enough stirring power so far, far less sediment than last time. I also don't have to worry about clogging finally (had to unclog almost daily before)! All the ports being wide open has really helped with blockages, and the pressure is just about perfect at the end of the 6 lines. (basically avoiding blockages by avoiding regulators, by just dumping the extra pressure via waterfall).

The mist definitely helps too I think, the bottom of the lid and sides are always soaked, and I got an 8" touchdown in 8 days from sprouts.

Here's the last 4 days since touchdown (and shows the manifold). I'm afraid the poor amnesia lemon (center) isn't keeping up with the hula haze. Might not make the cut =\



Think its time to top em? Think they're all on 4-5 nodes now.
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
YD,
As long as i keep the ph right i never have any problems... If she's looking a little lite, i up the ppm a little... I plod along with a little over half the recommended strength on the label at all stages.... I'm in the less is just fine group... It's easy to tell if she needs more to eat.. Nowadays i've been adding a little silica blast... With the FNB there seems to be enough for the plants to be able to take what the they want.... You can get good results force feeling a goose.... I've tried that with pot plants, it never ended well..
This is kinda why I kinda wanted to go a low N and Ca diet. I'm more confident in recognizing those issues and bumping it up a bit more if needed, than I am making a perfect mix from the start. Definitely not interested in force feeding- just hoping to get 'good' growth with an J friendly nutrient ratio without poisoning em (I feel like with my mix/water, lucas might poison em). And with the timelapse (so far) its been easy to detect stalled growth (the few days before touchdown were super boring).
 
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Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Real photo of plants- some of the lower leaves still have those weird speckles. Guess i should probably post these in my grow log...

 

THE KONASSURE

Well-Known Member
ful-power by bioAG. it's supposed to be best form of fulvic? cold pressed vs normal process. sounded legit when i read about it.

didn't know about the reaction with oxidizers. i'm gonna shoot them an email since i use pool shock. want to see if it will be affected or what interactions.

i'll have to read that story. maybe forward it to them along with my inquiry.

I buy powdered fulvic

The last lot I had was this really nice bright kinda yellow, off bright yellow, then I got some new stuff, its darker like a mid orange

Now somewhere ages ago I heard the better the fulvic the lighter yellow it is, as it gets orange its getting more towards a humic grade acid then when its light brown its a humic acid, still good stuff but not as light as fulvic ?

They get most of this stuff from kelp and seaweed and algae right ? I just wonder why no matter how much algae and seaweed you use, you still see a benefit from using fulvic and triacontanol and even bennie bacteria that they get from seaweed and algae

just you would think some algae or seaweed juice/powder would be able to do it all but they use it to make so many different gardening products its kinda insane
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
I buy powdered fulvic

The last lot I had was this really nice bright kinda yellow, off bright yellow, then I got some new stuff, its darker like a mid orange

Now somewhere ages ago I heard the better the fulvic the lighter yellow it is, as it gets orange its getting more towards a humic grade acid then when its light brown its a humic acid, still good stuff but not as light as fulvic ?

They get most of this stuff from kelp and seaweed and algae right ? I just wonder why no matter how much algae and seaweed you use, you still see a benefit from using fulvic and triacontanol and even bennie bacteria that they get from seaweed and algae

just you would think some algae or seaweed juice/powder would be able to do it all but they use it to make so many different gardening products its kinda insane
Yea as far as humics, the more yellow it is, the lower molecular weight it is, and basically the 'smaller' it is. Fulvcis are just the lighter ones, so its actually a whole gradient from humics -> fulvics, without really any specification of what is what. The fulvics are smaller and can actually enter plant tissue, help with nutrient transport, help transport immobile nutrients (kinda cool). The heavier humics dont enter the plant, and mostly act as a chelator for metal ions- keeps em from reacting as readily, potentially can help with toxicity too (think of it like time-release metal ions).

Apparently humics are better for microbial life than fulvics- i guess they kinda 'feed' off of the ions that the humics catch, and apparently can consume the fulvics themselves. I guess for soil, you want humic heavy because the benefit to the microbe/rootball area are better, for hydroponics you apparently want fulvics because of the inner-plant activity. Im not sure any of that really makes sense to me, but I'm trying to go as 'fulvic' as possible.

At least all the humics ive seen come from leonardite- which is like a soft coal, oily kinda stuff. There's naturally humics in sea kelp, which is why it makes a great foliar. You can make it even better by using more fulvics and whatever other nutrient source you want, as it'll carry the metal ions into the plant. Sea kelp also has bennies in it (i think mostly Subtilis).

This is why I'm really interested in floralicious+ (even though it destroyed my rez last time), its mostly humics and kelp. And when you add microbial activity, the kelp can be broken down further to release all sorts of hormones into the root zone. So for right now im treating F+ as basically a microbe/tea additive. Kelp isn't useful in hydro until its broken down, so I just do all that during the tea process.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
@Yesdog

good call dude! here's the response. good thing i've only used it for 2 weeks.

now, where is that undo button on my res???


It's not that it effects the FP necessarily or the chlorine. It's that it effects you. Fulvic acid binds with chlorine to create a trimethylhalide gas that is toxic to you.
Number 6 on this sort of explains.
http://www.bioag.com/healthfaq.html
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Oh shit, that's what I was reading on the health nut... (fuck, i cant call them that now)... health message boards.
 

THE KONASSURE

Well-Known Member
Yea as far as humics, the more yellow it is, the lower molecular weight it is, and basically the 'smaller' it is. Fulvcis are just the lighter ones, so its actually a whole gradient from humics -> fulvics, without really any specification of what is what. The fulvics are smaller and can actually enter plant tissue, help with nutrient transport, help transport immobile nutrients (kinda cool). The heavier humics dont enter the plant, and mostly act as a chelator for metal ions- keeps em from reacting as readily, potentially can help with toxicity too (think of it like time-release metal ions).

Apparently humics are better for microbial life than fulvics- i guess they kinda 'feed' off of the ions that the humics catch, and apparently can consume the fulvics themselves. I guess for soil, you want humic heavy because the benefit to the microbe/rootball area are better, for hydroponics you apparently want fulvics because of the inner-plant activity. Im not sure any of that really makes sense to me, but I'm trying to go as 'fulvic' as possible.

At least all the humics ive seen come from leonardite- which is like a soft coal, oily kinda stuff. There's naturally humics in sea kelp, which is why it makes a great foliar. You can make it even better by using more fulvics and whatever other nutrient source you want, as it'll carry the metal ions into the plant. Sea kelp also has bennies in it (i think mostly Subtilis).

This is why I'm really interested in floralicious+ (even though it destroyed my rez last time), its mostly humics and kelp. And when you add microbial activity, the kelp can be broken down further to release all sorts of hormones into the root zone. So for right now im treating F+ as basically a microbe/tea additive. Kelp isn't useful in hydro until its broken down, so I just do all that during the tea process.

Yeah I like fulvic and trichoderma for their water and root improving abilities

Fulvic is great stuff, I add 20 to 40g to around 200L of water, along with trichoderma and "water butt treatment" to my water butt after I fill and ph it, then it bubbles away for 5 to 8 days before I use it next

Not had much salt build up or any rot issues in coco since we set up a water butt

with straight tap water and CX nutes and canna nutes we were seeing a salt build up on the sacks and trays a year or 2 ago, I really like having a water butt, I would be less likely to grow if in a place where I can`t precondition my water now days

It`d have to be rent free or something very low risk for me to consider not having any water storage now days
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
trichoderma is another new thing to this res this time (via the great white), heard good things about it. kinda sucks price-wise, but great white really does have a great mix of microbes for a soluble powder
 

mytwhyt

Well-Known Member
I'm a lazy gardener, i just can't see maintaining a whole other ecosystem to deal with a problem that shouldn't take over a reservoir in the first place..... My reservoir stays clean because of two things i did... I bought a chiller, and i never introduce unfiltered air into my system.... When you stop and think about how problems enter the reservoir, its gotta be mostly in the air we pump through the water... Pumping air through water is a great way to filter the air of what it contains.... Prefiltering the air is the solution... At least that's how i see it..
A little two sided tape, and a good painters mask filter... My pump doesn't work any harder than it did without it.... clean air is as simple as that...

IMG_2099.JPG pump.JPG
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
I'm a lazy gardener, i just can't see maintaining a whole other ecosystem to deal with a problem that shouldn't take over a reservoir in the first place..... My reservoir stays clean because of two things i did... I bought a chiller, and i never introduce unfiltered air into my system.... When you stop and think about how problems enter the reservoir, its gotta be mostly in the air we pump through the water... Pumping air through water is a great way to filter the air of what it contains.... Prefiltering the air is the solution... At least that's how i see it..
A little two sided tape, and a good painters mask filter... My pump doesn't work any harder than it did without it.... clean air is as simple as that...

View attachment 3789804
I've thought about that before, that's why I keep my air pump im my sealed tent (sucks for heat). But yea, I think its pretty much impossible to prevent pumping spores into your rez via the air pump without a filter.

Another great idea I will have to steal one day!
 

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
I use regular air and all seems good. I doubt the air filter makes a difference. But whatever works for you, works.
I think it makes sense- people get allergies to mold and stuff, so some of it has to find its way into the air. If not as a pathogen itself, could definitely be some organic food for some baddies.
 
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