Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Math, how does that work!?
Who will be better at getting America out of debt, Trump or Hillary?
- Thread starter DavidKratos92
- Start date
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
What happens when I spend the other $800,000??? Taxation!!!
Still cant figure out the new math you are using....
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
^^^^this post was brought to you by the 17th can of coke zero
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You don't seem to understand percentages correctly
We're talking about percentages of income, not total amount of taxation
You support a system of taxation that ensures poor people pay more taxes than rich people
I support a system of taxation that ensures rich people pay more taxes than poor people
So why don't we just skip the theory of it all and get to the bottom of it?
Do you support a system of taxation that ensures poor people pay more taxes than rich people?
Do you support a system of taxation that ensures rich people pay more taxes than poor people?
Or
Do you support a system of taxation that ensures all people pay equal taxes, regardless of their income?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Padwan....
If someone makes a million dollars... To enjoy it they have to spend it. You dont just sit on it... And if they did then whenever they died and someone else spent it ... It would be taxed.
Everyone would be taxed on their spending at 20%.... You could invest or save the money at no charge but EVENTUALLY when you spent the money it would be taxed.
The rich would pay more taxes than the poor because the rich spend more than the poor.
I support a system of taxation that is fair, flat and does not require me to give the government excruciating details of my financial life every year with the penalty of jail for non-compliance.
Poor is not a static condition just as rich is not a static condition. I do not choose to place moral judgments upon people based upon their wealth or income.
What I would like to do is encourage investment and savings by allowing this to be done tax free. Ultimately any money made would be taxed when spent.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
like the fact that you had to take out a loan to cover living expenses at the height of your "scrubbing shit off of polls in apache junction" success?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Again, we're talking about percentages of income, not overall investment
Poor people spend 100% of their income, rich people spend a very small percentage of their overall income. How can you claim that rich people spend more of their money than poor people?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
You keep saying that like all poor people always have to spend all their income.... Rich people spend plenty of their overall income, again, you keep saying that like we are only talking about the homeless on the one end and the billionaires on the other.
What I see is that you think government should be like mom and dad driving in the front seat with all the kids in the back and mom and dad's job is to make sure it is fair and equal for everyone and we all have to share the window seats.
I do not believe it is governments job to make things fair for people. It is governments job to make sure there is the maximum opportunity for people to not be poor.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I respect you because for the most part you seem to be here to participate in discussion unlike all the trolls. So I am willing to take the time to try to get you to see more of the picture.
Lets do a hypothetical exercise here. You create a hypothetical rich person and tell me how much they make in income and how much they spend on themselves as a percentage.
Ok, once you have done that, what does that rich person do with the remainder of their income?
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I'm just speaking in general terms for 'rich' and 'poor'
Poor people generally spend 100% of their income just to survive. Rich people don't. If you tax spending, poor people will be taxed more because they spend more. Taxing income isn't much better, but it's more equal than taxing spending by a long shot. I don't think it's fair to tax people who work and not those who don't, I think it's shitty people slip through the system and we have to pay for it. But I also think it's shitty when billionaires evade their taxes just the same. We all live here, collectively, it's all of our responsibility to keep the lights on. We have to acknowledge that and understand what it's actually worth. Without it, the lights go off and production stops. Should the poor have to find a way to pay for it or should it be the responsibility of those who've already benefitted the most?
What's "poor" to you?
What does "the maximum opportunity for people to not be poor" mean? How do you measure that?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
How do poor people get rich? How do middle class people get rich? How do rich people get richer??
If you tax investment and savings then you break down the ability of the poor to get rich.
Right now if you put your money in savings or buy a CD it is likely that inflation will cause that money to be worth less in value year after year then when you saved it. You yourself have said that the poor do not have the same abilities as the rich to invest and i agree with you on that.
So, the government has keep interest rates artificially low for over 8 years now (they say it is for us but really it is for them.) How much better have the poor done over the last 7 years? How much growth has happened in the US in the last 7 years? I wont try to feed you propaganda I am just asking for you to review how the policies of the current administration and the promised policies of the next administration are doing to help the poor, to help minorities, etc...
Here is what i will tell you. For a poor person to become a rich person they need income. And most poor people get income from a job. And not surprisingly, real jobs are hard to come by despite the propaganda the government pushes. You know this right? There are hard times for your friends, family, community. Again, I am not trying to push propaganda I am asking you to look around and evaluate it for yourself.
If I was poor I would spend all my money too. No point in saving it for 1/2 % interest.
When I look around I see that people need jobs and the income from those jobs will increase the economy. Hillary Clinton only promises raising taxes which will not create jobs, it will just grow the government.
Rich people work as much or more than poor people. I am not sure why you think they dont. I am not talking about people like the Cardassians.
Trump didnt evade any taxes, he followed the tax code that was written by special interests and rubber stamped by the government of which he was not part of. Declaring him to be bad for legally following the rules on his taxes is flat out unfair and hypocritical. If you want to argue about that then I ask you how much extra you sent to the IRS last year... If you said nothing then you, me, trump and every other American are in the same boat there.
We both want the lights to stay on. The poor and elderly would be hurt most by a collapse. But my opinion is that the government keeps bailing water into the ship while it is going down.
Would you agree that their needs to be limits on government spending?
Right now the top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. I am not sure how much more 'Fair' you think it should be.
The people you want to put the thumbscrews to are the same people that could take that money and create jobs and opportunity... Government does not create jobs, poor people do not create jobs and Hillary Clinton is not going to create jobs.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I appreciate that, man. I just don't have the will to argue with people anymore
I'm not sure I understand the exercise
A hypothetical rich person? That can range from a steady income to someone with a net worth in the billions
How much they spend? How can I determine that?
What do they do with the remainder of their income?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
'What's "poor" to you?
What does "the maximum opportunity for people to not be poor" mean? How do you measure that?'
I dont see people as rich or poor. Wealth is more based upon income over time than a black and white situation. Pun not intended. People have net worths along the entire scale, not just rich or poor.
If jobs are plentiful and people are scarce then wages rise accordingly due to supply and demand. The way to increase anything is to encourage it rather than discourage it.
Obamacare, additional regulation and taxation discourage jobs, they dont encourage them.
We dont have to agree on a hypothetical amount for the rich person to have or spend. What does the hypothetical rich person do with the money they have not spent that is left over? What I am trying to do is help you follow the chain of money. If you do that you would see that whether it is spent by the rich person or invested then that money will be taxed as it is spent.
Now, it is the money being taxed, not the rich person being taxed because the money is invested. But the money is still going to be taxed. The rich person will eventually either lose money on the investment or make money but if they make money then it goes back into their bank account to either be reinvested at which point it is taxed again or spent at which point it is taxed.
You might say that the rich person is a greedy bastard and doesnt invest the money but just puts it in the bank so they can have a really cool number on a piece of paper to show all their other rich and greedy bastard friends. To that I would say that even if they did something that hugely stupid then the bank uses that really cool number as collateral on money it loans out to other people who spend the money on whatever and it is taxed anyway, the bank makes a profit and the rich person loses value to inflation because they are too stupid to understand finance.
So if it is taxes you are concerned about, you really dont need to be. If it is punishing the rich you are concerned about then you are trying to cut off your nose to spite your own face and the government is the one that gave you the razor and told you that it is gonna hurt a rich person when you hurt yourself.
Again, income turns a poor person into a rich person, not government unless you are a politician.
What does "the maximum opportunity for people to not be poor" mean? How do you measure that?'
I dont see people as rich or poor. Wealth is more based upon income over time than a black and white situation. Pun not intended. People have net worths along the entire scale, not just rich or poor.
If jobs are plentiful and people are scarce then wages rise accordingly due to supply and demand. The way to increase anything is to encourage it rather than discourage it.
Obamacare, additional regulation and taxation discourage jobs, they dont encourage them.
We dont have to agree on a hypothetical amount for the rich person to have or spend. What does the hypothetical rich person do with the money they have not spent that is left over? What I am trying to do is help you follow the chain of money. If you do that you would see that whether it is spent by the rich person or invested then that money will be taxed as it is spent.
Now, it is the money being taxed, not the rich person being taxed because the money is invested. But the money is still going to be taxed. The rich person will eventually either lose money on the investment or make money but if they make money then it goes back into their bank account to either be reinvested at which point it is taxed again or spent at which point it is taxed.
You might say that the rich person is a greedy bastard and doesnt invest the money but just puts it in the bank so they can have a really cool number on a piece of paper to show all their other rich and greedy bastard friends. To that I would say that even if they did something that hugely stupid then the bank uses that really cool number as collateral on money it loans out to other people who spend the money on whatever and it is taxed anyway, the bank makes a profit and the rich person loses value to inflation because they are too stupid to understand finance.
So if it is taxes you are concerned about, you really dont need to be. If it is punishing the rich you are concerned about then you are trying to cut off your nose to spite your own face and the government is the one that gave you the razor and told you that it is gonna hurt a rich person when you hurt yourself.
Again, income turns a poor person into a rich person, not government unless you are a politician.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
As you see from my next post, that is my point. It doesnt matter whether they save it or invest it the money is still going to be taxed.
srh88
Well-Known Member
it doesnt take a million dollars to be happy... is that why you had to take out a loan? you spent everything you made?
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I would contend that money makes many people miserable. Just look at Hollywood... Most people do think being rich makes people happy when the truth isnt so pretty.
Go troll in the kiddie pool.
srh88
Well-Known Member
lol.. you are the kiddie pool dude
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
tl, dr because 19 coke zeros.
